Programs we remember

[liv]

 Gordeeva/Grinkov, they were the team that made me become obsessed with skating... it was 1986 in Geneva and they were faster and did bigger tricks than anyone else, with incredible unison despite the height difference. I think one would have to watch entire competitions from those days to truly understand why this team was so different. My favourite amateur years for them were 1988 and 1989. The olympics in 1988, they would have been ahead like how yuzu was in GPF 2016. The worlds in 1989 was another example of blowing away the competition. Everyone talks about olympics 1994, but for me that was not them at their best. Europeans and SC were better. 

 

For those newer pairs watchers who think their twist is different than  those of today, you are right Back then, triple twists were basically splits on the way up and then vertical twists in the air. Theirs was massive for the times. Canadians Brasseur/Eisler were the team that brought horizontal twists into fashion. Today's horizontal looks so messy to me, but many things look messy to me in pairs now, lol. The man, when catching the lady in a split twist , should be on one foot....very few do this properly now. Their throws were also considered text book throws. In 1994 they beat M/D by a tiny margin, despite mistakes, and one reason that was brought up was that  in doing throws properly, the man should not come to a stop when he throws her... Sergei never stopped, while Artur Dmitriev did.  Many pairs now come to stops when they throw.... it allows a huge throw.  So, technique has changed a lot so pairs is very different. 

 

I remember that when China was first developing pairs, back in early 90s, G/G videos were shown as their technique was considered absolutely perfect. Now China has no need of those videos as they have developed their own pairs with their own style, technique, and great success. 

[Yatagarasu]

9 hours ago, xeyra said:

This is not my favorite of Daisuke's programs (I've seen others I've loved more like Blues for Kooks) but damn if that first step sequence wasn't on fire!  He is so expressive and so smooth.  

 

Between Dai and Boyang's La Strada, though, I realize there's a certain common clownish-ness to the character being portrayed (they both scratch their head in their performances too) and now I kind of want to check out the Fellini movie this theme comes from to catch whatever they're referencing in these choreographies. 

 

Hah, actually it's not my favorite program of his either though I do love it but in terms of meaning, it does have a special place in his career, and skating overall. This is my favorite - click. I cannot watch that and not be mesmerized. The music is one of the best choices I've heard, ever. But Dai had that wonderful expressiveness while skating, that he could maximize something like that and connect to the audience fully.

 

Uh, the movie. Well it's a heavy tragedy actually. There is a surface bit of it, in terms of the 'clown' and the 'fool', yes definitely but then it's really not possible to convey the deep themes the movie addresses (it's a masterpiece but best not watched if you're not up to feeling utterly bummed in the end. Or throughout). 

 

@liv ah thank you for posting that!

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Uh, the movie. Well it's a heavy tragedy actually. There is a surface bit of it, in terms of the 'clown' and the 'fool', yes definitely but then it's really not possible to convey the deep themes the movie addresses (it's a masterpiece but best not watched if you're not up to feeling utterly bummed in the end. Or throughout). 

 

@liv ah thank you for posting that!

 

Once I read the description of the movie I realized it wasn't exactly a comedy. 

 

And yeah, that performance is gorgeous! I love the music and how fast he moves with it. The choreo is amazing and his expression is always fantastic. Plus that costume looks really hot on him.  

[Yatagarasu]

7 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I just came here to see if this had been shared yet and there it was! One of my favourite skates of all time by my probably second favourite of all time.

 

Slowly, slowly, we're yo-yo-ing through time! We'll get to quite a few 

[kaeryth]

Same sentiments as most... La Strada isn't my favourite Daisuke Takahashi program but I appreciate the significance of that performance and him winning the first gold medal for Japan in the men's discipline. My favourite from him is actually Cyber Swan (I hate his hairstyle for though).

[Sombreuil]

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

My favourite from him is actually Cyber Swan (I hate his hairstyle for though).

You've got to admit the shaggy hairdo helps to emphasise the head movements - bit like Wenjing Sui's bob.  

[Altie]

Dai <3

His best programs are really unique. Few skaters have had so much style and modernity in their skating.

[Yatagarasu]

And up!

• Yulia Lipnitskaya of Russia skating to Schindler's List by John Williams, at the 2014 Olympic Games, in Sochi, Russia

I hadn't actually planned on going straight to her but with Russian test skates approaching, and with the likelihood that she is indeed r***ng growing, I thought we might as well go to Yulia right now. European champion from that 2014, silver medalist at Worlds in 2014, Junior Grand Prix gold medalist and World Junior Champion in 2012.

 

And of course, that gold team medal from Sochi 2014. It is worth noting Yulia chose both her programs for the 2013/14 season herself. It was especially this, long program that was a point of contention. Eteri Tutberidze was not for it and afterwards they couldn't find the choreographer until Ilia Averbukh jumped in. By the time Sochi came along, she was the youngest European champion ever and the first Russian to have won it since 2006. It had been decided that she would do only free in the team event while Sotnikova would do the short but that was later changed, and it fell onto her to do both. 

So this is how we got to one of those magical moments when everything came together, the program, the skater, the location, the crowd, and she became the youngest Olympic gold medalist (under the modern rules) edging out Tara Lipinski by 6 days, and overall, the youngest Olympic figure skating gold medalist. The individual event that followed though, did not go so well and she finished 5th overall. Per her words, it was a mix of nerves and fatigue that finally got to her. 

 

Unfortunately, that and the absolutely insane media attention that she got, affected her. For those who weren't around at the time, it went so far that she had to move houses and that at one point Eteri discovered listening devices planted in the locker rooms in order to record Yulia (remember, she was very much under age when all of this was happening). Puberty, change of coaches, injuries. All of this plagued her to end with the last season's pulling out of the free skate at Rostelecom. It appeared at one moment that she would be back but the more time passes, the less likely it seems and I am saddened it will probably end this way.

Still, if nothing else, that one moment, as the girl in the red coat, remains forever in figure skating history.

 

 

 

Alternate link 1 - English commentary (but alas the Olympic channel doesn't allow embedding)

 

[yuzupon]

As I was only paying attention to the ladies event during Sochi, I remember Yulia. The commentators were so hyped up about her during Ladies SP, but she fell hard during the individual SP, so I checked her performances during team event. She was brilliant in the team event, and I was marvelling at how flexible she was! This program was magical! The jumps were a bit wonky, but she seemed to make them look a bit more smooth than Medvedeva (the comparison is because they both have similar jumping technique, tho this is based on my untrained eyes, so I might be wrong). The spins (!!!) and expression were especially superb. And she does that at that age.

 

It is so sad when skaters skating career got so affected by things that are not necessarily supposed to be a part of professional athlete's life (I'm talking about the excessive media attention). I guess the media was treating Yuzu much the same way, but I wonder whether it is the cultural difference or gender factor or both, that kept it from being as bad as what Yulia faced. I will miss her skating and will always wonder how a more mature and polished skating from her would look like, but I wish her all the happiness regardless.

[axelsandwich]

Ahh...Yulia's Sochi skate for this is one of the programs that struck me so hard when I first got into figure skating and I rewatched so many times. Her flexibility in this program was absolutely insane and there was such a beautiful way she connected with the music (despite the small jumps). I'm so sad she's been plagued with injury - there is potentially such thing as 'winning before you're ready', but at least she has two amazing performances that will forever be remembered ):  

 

It was a good thing that Yuzu was able to 'escape' to Canada to train because the media attention if he had stayed in Japan would have been even worse (hell, it's already pretty bad and he's not even there for most of the year). Who knows how it may have affected his skating career, though I don't deny media interest differs between countries and people and Yulia being so young...it must have taken a toll ;; 

[Yatagarasu]

19 hours ago, yuzupon said:

It is so sad when skaters skating career got so affected by things that are not necessarily supposed to be a part of professional athlete's life (I'm talking about the excessive media attention). I guess the media was treating Yuzu much the same way, but I wonder whether it is the cultural difference or gender factor or both, that kept it from being as bad as what Yulia faced. I will miss her skating and will always wonder how a more mature and polished skating from her would look like, but I wish her all the happiness regardless.

 

17 hours ago, kaerb said:

It was a good thing that Yuzu was able to 'escape' to Canada to train because the media attention if he had stayed in Japan would have been even worse (hell, it's already pretty bad and he's not even there for most of the year). Who knows how it may have affected his skating career, though I don't deny media interest differs between countries and people and Yulia being so young...it must have taken a toll ;; 

 

I really think there is no doubt that the media had a giant part in everything that happened. Yes, of course there was the Eteri of it too, not only was that pretty much the first time she was handling such a thing, but I really think she and Yulia were a bad match. As much as Zhenya fits with Eteri, I think that's how much Yulia did not. And of course, the individual event must have hurt but then we've got to wonder if the media focus and pressure wasn't so high, would it have been so traumatic? And yes, her being so young, I am not sure an adult can deal with things like being bugged well, never mind a minor, no matter the parental support. 
I agree Yuzuru is somewhat protected by the distance, it truly was a blessing in many ways. Yes, of course he still has the pressures but this does somewhat relieve it, as well as a coach  who is used to dealing with this type of madness, thanks to Yuna. 

 

It truly is a pity that more than likely we'll never know how Yulia would have been as a fully mature skater as her expression was truly something even at that age but I honestly wish she finds happiness and hopefully one day she can look back at Sochi and think, ah I was so young but I brought so many people so much happiness that day, and just feel joy. It's difficult to find peace but I wish her that. 

 

[axelsandwich]

25 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

 

I really think there is no doubt that the media had a giant part in everything that happened. Yes, of course there was the Eteri of it too, not only was that pretty much the first time she was handling such a thing, but I really think she and Yulia were a bad match. As much as Zhenya fits with Eteri, I think that's how much Yulia did not. And of course, the individual event must have hurt but then we've got to wonder if the media focus and pressure wasn't so high, would it have been so traumatic? And yes, her being so young, I am not sure an adult can deal with things like being bugged well, never mind a minor, no matter the parental support. 
I agree Yuzuru is somewhat protected by the distance, it truly was a blessing in many ways. Yes, of course he still has the pressures but this does somewhat relieve it, as well as a coach  who is used to dealing with this type of madness, thanks to Yuna. 

 

It truly is a pity that more than likely we'll never know how Yulia would have been as a fully mature skater as her expression was truly something even at that age but I honestly wish she finds happiness and hopefully one day she can look back at Sochi and think, ah I was so young but I brought so many people so much happiness that day, and just feel joy. It's difficult to find peace but I wish her that. 

 

The coach-student fit is so essential and definitely having a coach experienced with the media madness would be invaluable - Yuzu was truly lucky in that way to have benefited from Yuna's work with Brian before him (I also just shake my head at how Yuna was able to bear all that pressure) and also to have precedent with Mao in Japan.  

 

I wasn't super into figure skating when Sochi was happening so I'm curious about how you think Yulia and Eteri vs Eteri and Zhenya differ? From what I've gathered (correct me if I'm wrong), Eteri has a certain reputation for being extremely demanding on her students and expect them to conform to a 'formula' (I read that somewhat recent interview where she basically says the skater should not have to worry about anything other than their skating?). I feel like Zhenya is very confident and assertive and can maintain a sense of good humour in the face of pressure, but Yulia struck me as more sensitive/introverted, which doesn't work with a 'dominant' teacher like Eteri.   

[Yatagarasu]

16 hours ago, kaerb said:

I wasn't super into figure skating when Sochi was happening so I'm curious about how you think Yulia and Eteri vs Eteri and Zhenya differ? From what I've gathered (correct me if I'm wrong), Eteri has a certain reputation for being extremely demanding on her students and expect them to conform to a 'formula' (I read that somewhat recent interview where she basically says the skater should not have to worry about anything other than their skating?). I feel like Zhenya is very confident and assertive and can maintain a sense of good humour in the face of pressure, but Yulia struck me as more sensitive/introverted, which doesn't work with a 'dominant' teacher like Eteri.   

 

Hmm, yes there is that (in)famous interview by now with her but then I look at how she handles Zhenya - she was completely blase about the 3-3-3 and it was RusFed that forbid it post-Europeans, not Eteri, so I would say yes, she's demanding and strict, but I think at some point, she lets the reins go a little, as we saw with Zhenya. Zheyna does have input in the music too, etc so it's not all little automaton as some may see it.

 

I think you've basically hit the nail on the head there, with Zhenya's personality. She's confident, assertive and I think someone who'd respond well to blunt and doesn't flinch easily. I am not sure if you know the story, so I find it a good example for those two. When she was young and came to Eteri, she kept falling so Eteri took her by her feet and dragged her across the ice saying do you like being there (paraphrasing). So how many kids would respond well? Those who would get angry and huff and storm off to do it better. Zhenya's mother was also a figure skater so maybe that was also helpful as the years passed, to have that experience in her corner.

 

But someone like Yulia? I see her like you do, and then when we think about all the things she faced, I think she needed gentler, softer approach which I just don't see Eteri having. She's too alpha, too dominant for that type of personality, she'd walk all over her, even if trying to be kind. And of course, overall her situation was truly rotten, no child should have to bear with that.

So that nobody misunderstands, I'm not saying Yulia is 'weak' or anything, just that personalities should match up at least somewhat or it is difficult to function, especially when the skater is a minor and in general, much less capable of standing their ground that a fully formed, mature adult would be.

[yuzuangel]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:03 PM, yuzupon said:

It is so sad when skaters skating career got so affected by things that are not necessarily supposed to be a part of professional athlete's life (I'm talking about the excessive media attention). I guess the media was treating Yuzu much the same way, but I wonder whether it is the cultural difference or gender factor or both, that kept it from being as bad as what Yulia faced. I will miss her skating and will always wonder how a more mature and polished skating from her would look like, but I wish her all the happiness regardless.

 

Yes, the media attention certainly didn't help  and my impression is that Yulia had to sacrifice a lot to get to Sochi. She was 15 and growing and they made a conscious decision to push her through Sochi. I think afterwards, her not-ideal technique + growing into a woman + maybe the health repercussions she suffered during/before Sochi probably hurt her skating career and health a lot. If you read her account, she was already recommended to quit before Sochi but she did everything she could to get there.

 

Since then she's had a lot of health issues, and it's very unfortunate but I don't think we can just chalk it up to bad luck or media attention which puts the blame solely on no one. Of course, no one would really know the answer except her and her doctor. Regardless, Yulia is a very determined, very talented, and very special skater that I will miss so much when she decides to retire. I don't think anyone would have expected that little girl in the red coat, the one who was so young and so talented, to just disappear from the skating world so soon  I wonder if her fans from Sochi might look for her at Pyeonchang and be surprised that she is not there.

 

And I think Yulia's jumps during Sochi were worse than Medvedeva's, but the recent performances at Rostelecom they seemed higher/better (the ones that she could land, ofc). 

[yuzuangel]

26 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

When she was young and came to Eteri, she kept falling so Eteri took her by her feet and dragged her across the ice saying do you like being there (paraphrasing). So how many kids would respond well? Those who would get angry and huff and storm off to do it better.

 

Haha when I read this I was like "How horrible!" I could never imagine a Western coach doing this without the student or his/her parents getting upset and taking the kid to another coach. But Zhenya herself says that after that she never wanted to fall again which gives me great respect for her for being able to take something so humiliating and turn it into something great. Actually Zhenya's mental strength might be unparalleled in the history of this sport (although we'll still have to see her at her first Olympics but for some reason I'm not too worried).