2019–20 Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) Thread

[rockstaryuzu]

All of that is exactly why I think Yuzu is better off and much safer being in Japan at the moment, and since in most respects outside of skating he seems to be fairly sensible, that is exactly where I expect that he is and hope that he stays, at least until the situation is a little less muddy here. 

 

Muddy...Muddy York...Hah! I just made a 19th century joke! I need help. 

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

All of that is exactly why I think Yuzu is better off and much safer being in Japan at the moment, and since in most respects outside of skating he seems to be fairly sensible, that is exactly where I expect that he is and hope that he stays, at least until the situation is a little less muddy here. 

 

Muddy...Muddy York...Hah! I just made a 19th century joke! I need help. 

Thank you for this bit of history, I didn't know.

By then housing costs were not what they are now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Toronto

[mercedes]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:55 PM, Neenah said:

Please, don't let your guard down if the pandemic situation is getting better in your country or area. We did that and the second wave that is hitting us now is much worse than the first. We were lucky the first time that we managed to control it quickly and got careless, now the daily numbers are 10 times more than they were in the first wave. The situation is terrifying and we have no way of containing it anymore.

Please be very careful and don't stop any preventive measures your are following. This is the only thing we can do in the face of this disease.

Stay safe everyone 

that's what scares me the most,everybody acting like this virus just disappeared....and as soon as people stop distancing/washing hands/wearing mask I'm afraid we'll go back to square one.

[rockstaryuzu]

Good news for every Ontarian not in the T. Dot:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ontario-reopening-phase-2-groups-of-10-allowed-places-of-worship-to-reopen-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/ar-BB15cIWG?li=AAggNb9

 

Woohoo! This means I can go back to Mass and go gossip with my hairstylist for three hours while we completely ignore whatever she's doing to my hair...exciting!! 

[liv]

It's true. With the nicer weather people and lower numbers, people are behaving as if everything is fine. And, the attitude that only the old people with major health issues die, doesn't help. My boss, an educated person, works in other nursing home facilities where they've had deaths and she says that she knew the people who died and they were already really sick. She said they were close to dying anyway and they were the only ones who did end up dying.  She says, *how do you know if they died from that or the other condition they had? Many others tested positive and had no symptoms.* So, as a result she thinks it was all a big over reaction. I keep saying, well, you don't know, there are cases where they were young and totally healthy and they still got very sick or died... and she counters with, *I"m sure they had some issues they didn't know about, or maybe they were obese, and maybe they were the only case like that in the area. * I"m looking at everything from the side of caution, whereas she believes she is right and public health knows nothing since they keep changing their opinions about things... and I keep saying, *well, it's all new to them too, everything changes as you learn more about it." After all, hindsight is 20/20.

 

Anyway, all of us workers get to be tested 2x in the next 4 weeks. Ongoing program to deal with the crisis that is the long term care home situation... and we still have no cases in either staff or residents... my poor nose is working up the courage to get in line right away tomorrow instead of putting it off until the end of the week...

 

Ontario government announced today that things will be opening even more as of this Friday. Shopping malls, restaurants, hair dressers, pools, museums and libraries... all with distancing and precautions in effect... but not in the Toronto or Hamilton areas since they are still showing some cases. The fear is that those people in Toronto will then get in their cars and go drive to London or somewhere in  order to get their hair cut/coloured... and now people can come into Canada if they have immediate family here, or are permanent residents etc..

 

We will see if the protesting and new easing of restrictions results in an uptick in the number of cases....

[rockstaryuzu]

....already starting to feel sorry for the hairstylists next week. They'll be going from completely unemployed to flat out busy overnight. There's going to be a huge rush to get to the salon. 

 

@liv Your boss is saying the same kinds of things as my mom, who has steadfastly refused to isolate,  and only grudgingly distanced,  this whole time. People like that are extremely tiring to deal with. 

[rockstaryuzu]

9 minutes ago, liv said:

and now people can come into Canada if they have immediate family here, or are permanent residents etc..

Ugh no, that's a bad thing. there is zero need to loosen the border restriction right now, they're the last things we should open. 

[Sombreuil]

This is what worries me - I get angry when I hear those in authority proclaiming that we can rely on the common sense of the general public - like all those who headed for the beach or beauty spots or gathered together for protest marches.  Look what the sensible general public decided to do the weekend before lockdown was slightly loosened - will we see a second wave as a result?   Did anyone trace those idiots who came from all over the place - some of them drove miles?  
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52867140

[rockstaryuzu]

I'm wondering why they bothered re-opening swimming pools though. The very thought of getting into one right now makes me feel all skin-crawly, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Like, you can open them,  but no one will show up to use them? 

[liv]

The article I read said that people can adequately distance in a swimming pool... it also includes splash pads etc.. although I read that it didn't include slides...I guess they feel the sunlight and/or and chlorine might kill the virus? I don't swim in public pools anyway so I"ll just keep away a bit longer!!

[rockstaryuzu]

23 minutes ago, liv said:

The article I read said that people can adequately distance in a swimming pool... it also includes splash pads etc.. although I read that it didn't include slides...I guess they feel the sunlight and/or and chlorine might kill the virus? I don't swim in public pools anyway so I"ll just keep away a bit longer!!

Oh the chlorine will kill the virus all right...just not instantly. I lifeguarded for years and I have a pretty good idea just how much saliva, exhalations, mucus etc can get into a pool from basic normal use...if you come in contact with that before the chlorine has had a chance to do it's thing, you can pick up any contagion that might be there. 

[Lunna]

51 минуту назад, liv сказал:

The fear is that those people in Toronto will then get in their cars and go drive to London or somewhere in  order to get their hair cut/coloured...

It's like here when hair saloons opened in Moscow region, but will open in Moscow in a week. I don't care much about hair saloon rn, cuz still working from home anyway, but I miss fitness center and swimming pool a lot - really makes you feel better, must reopen later in June, but there will be requirements and appointments beforehand, so number of people will be limited.

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, liv said:

It's true. With the nicer weather people and lower numbers, people are behaving as if everything is fine. And, the attitude that only the old people with major health issues die, doesn't help. My boss, an educated person, works in other nursing home facilities where they've had deaths and she says that she knew the people who died and they were already really sick. She said they were close to dying anyway and they were the only ones who did end up dying.  She says, *how do you know if they died from that or the other condition they had? Many others tested positive and had no symptoms.* So, as a result she thinks it was all a big over reaction. I keep saying, well, you don't know, there are cases where they were young and totally healthy and they still got very sick or died... and she counters with, *I"m sure they had some issues they didn't know about, or maybe they were obese, and maybe they were the only case like that in the area. * I"m looking at everything from the side of caution, whereas she believes she is right and public health knows nothing since they keep changing their opinions about things... and I keep saying, *well, it's all new to them too, everything changes as you learn more about it." After all, hindsight is 20/20.

 

Anyway, all of us workers get to be tested 2x in the next 4 weeks. Ongoing program to deal with the crisis that is the long term care home situation... and we still have no cases in either staff or residents... my poor nose is working up the courage to get in line right away tomorrow instead of putting it off until the end of the week...

 

Ontario government announced today that things will be opening even more as of this Friday. Shopping malls, restaurants, hair dressers, pools, museums and libraries... all with distancing and precautions in effect... but not in the Toronto or Hamilton areas since they are still showing some cases. The fear is that those people in Toronto will then get in their cars and go drive to London or somewhere in  order to get their hair cut/coloured... and now people can come into Canada if they have immediate family here, or are permanent residents etc..

 

We will see if the protesting and new easing of restrictions results in an uptick in the number of cases....

 Well, statistically it is probable that a majority of those who died were critically ill and may have lost little or no lifespan.

BUT now the risk factors are getting better known, and indeed there are comorbidities such as diabetes (often curable but nearly never cured, yet people can live long with it) or obesity, but also some generally unperceived factors such as a lack of vitamin C, D or K, or T-cells (particularly eosinophils), or just a great circumstantial tiredness (such as a victim I know, helping her older sisters who were just recovering from fractures) and these people could have lived long had they not met coronavirus.

PLUS, although I am not expecting a "second wave", we still have to manage the public health problem of the lung lesions, even with people who don't even know they have been contaminated, because some of these lesions will evolve into fibrosis. And an endemic of this disease.

Spoiler

 

Well, for older people, France is a bad example as hospitals would refuse anybody older than 80, then anybody older than 75 "because they were less likely to recover" and younger than 20 "because they were less likely to die" (yet some died), while in China or Spain for instance, they could save centenarians. As a whole the management of the crisis was "worst in the world" in France and Belgium and I must confess that when I see many complaining, though often with reason, I think "they don't know what we had in France". And still continuing.

"Just for the pleasure", an article about French president going to theatre on March 7th "to encourage French people not to let themselves frighten by the epidemic" :

https://people.bfmtv.com/actualite-people/emmanuel-et-brigitte-macron-au-theatre-pour-inciter-les-francais-a-sortir-malgre-le-coronavirus-1870852.html

then forcing the March 15th municipal elections, with virtually no protection, and where a great number of infections occurred; then the very next day, the media showed people gathering in public parks with better social distancing and he pretended to be shocked, and without the least warning allowing people to organise, he set an immediate and severe lock-down in the country, still without masks even for medics, nurses etc (a true novel, that story of masks in France) and with propaganda discouraging even the said carers from wearing at least homemade masks, or forbidding at first drugstores from making disinfectants, and with as soon as the next day, policemen who would never bother to visit victims of burglaries in the countryside, all of a sudden running into villages, without masks, to spit on elderly people who hadn't heard about the confinement and fine them... All this while refusing many proposals for cheap tests and ventilators, forbidding hydroxychloroquine, launching trials against scholars... A shame. And digit manufacturing is still going on shamelessly, particularly at every change of narrative such as in the last days when they entered in a "we won against the epidemic", a true provocation.

The Lancet published excuses after the "Lancetgate", I hope The New York Times will, after their last front page about "good management of the epidemic" in France, a true "NYT-gate". It is an insult to the French, to those who died because of this poor management, to those who lost loved ones, and to the victims of the excessive lock-down while essential measures were repelled, as we are announced a 11% recession, the worst since last war, and probably the worst in Europe, though Europe may be the worst hit.

Sorry for the rant, it had to go out, if you want I can suppress it.

 

 

[liv]

Exactly. There is much to learn still so to dismiss it as something only the old/sick should worry about is still premature.  There is much to learn. 

 

It bothers me when people get angry over the measures govts have taken to prevent spread... there are far worse things to happen in life than being told to stay home and remain distant. People must always remember that things can always be worse and things will always eventually get better. 

[Songster01]

It's been awhile but I recall reading a preliminary article in the US in which people on average were thought to have at least a decade's worth of life in them, co-morbidities or no.  And that many hospitalizations involve the middle-aged who survive more often than the elderly, but potentially with life-changing physical damage.  That too should inspire people to act responsibly, but then we are talking about humanity.  Anyway, I find myself loathing the casual ageism and ableism of people arguing to minimize COVID-19 and the many needless deaths.  One wonders how willing those people would be to sacrifice themselves in reality.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about indoor public places opening even in limited fashion in Ontario.  I sure hope they are extremely stringent at houses of worship where there might be temptations to socialize in the way you wouldn't normally at a museum.  Again, I'd probably feel better if masks were mandatory in public settings.  Yes, that would delay things because my dentist and eye doctor are still closed because they don't have all the PPE they need.  BUt again, wouldn't making transmission much more difficult be a very good thing?  I do hope the rules for people involved in non-medical physical care are also very stringent for the workers' safety most of all.  I'm def going to make sure that the person I go to for haircuts usually is ok with this whenever they do re-open.  My hair being a certain length is not more valuable than her right to not work if it isn't safe.  It's sad they can't demand everyone mask up. 

 

I suspect that the new rule re: immediate family of perm residents is a sign the border will remain closed for awhile.  The risks are too great to let in non-essential visitors en masse.  People would lie and asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic transmission is too common for it to be wise to let people come in for non-essential reasons, especially when our numbers are not falling quickly.  It wouldn't take that many tourists to send things skyrocketing here.