General Yuzuru Chat

[WinForPooh]

3 minutes ago, andchipzz said:

 

It is very weird right? Does nobody can do anything? Or is there some proofs that she is really a stalker or someone that is allowed to be near but does not want to be recognized?

 

I think everybody knows and they make sure she can't get close to Yuzu but she's always in public places and I don't think there's ever been a report of her actually doing anything that might get her in trouble - anything threatening, or physical contact. Pretty sure Yuzu's team knows but seriously it must be unsettling to have her following him around like this. Always a bit too close for comfort, but just far enough away for plausible deniability.

[andchipzz]

Just now, WinForPooh said:

 

I think everybody knows and they make sure she can't get close to Yuzu but she's always in public places and I don't think there's ever been a report of her actually doing anything that might get her in trouble - anything threatening, or physical contact. Pretty sure Yuzu's team knows but seriously it must be unsettling to have her following him around like this. Always a bit too close for comfort, but just far enough away for plausible deniability.

 

Maybe they have restraining order? 

[WinForPooh]

Just now, andchipzz said:

 

Maybe they have restraining order? 

 

No idea, can't speculate. I don't think restraining orders can cross jurisdictions internationally though and she seems too close for any restraining order I've heard of.

 

Very creepy, I wish she would stop and I wish we could do something. Ugh.

[yuzuangel]

46 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Apparently that woman in the long coat and white mask was stalking Yuzu again.

She wears a white mask? Like one of those filter masks or like a phantom of the Opera mask lmao

[WinForPooh]

6 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

She wears a white mask? Like one of those filter masks or like a phantom of the Opera mask lmao

 

lol One of those filter masks. The same one we've seen hurrying after him in airports and when he's walking from lobby to bus so often, we've seen her in so much footage.

 

 

[Salior]

16 hours ago, memae said:

 

I don't interpret that from them at all. Yeah, they're bitchy and gossipy and that's their shtick  but I think Dave is the last person who's going to make nasty comments about eating disorders since he has talked about his previous struggles with one. They weren't dissing Gabrielle's instagram so much as raising an eyebrow - and rightly so. It's not healthy for someone with a history of eating disorders (and there's no way she recovered that quickly) to be seeking validation the way that she is on Instagram. It's not empowering. It's her eating disorder manifesting in a way that seems better but isn't. They were right to call it attention seeking - but here's the thing... she needs attention because she needs help getting better. Anyone with personal experience of eating disorders can see that. 

 

I also don't think they're nearly as negative about Yuzu when they have criticisms as so many people like to think they do. People are so protective of Yuzu that they can't hear a word against him, even if it's a valid criticism or speculation. And, as we've seen since ACI this year, he can handle himself just fine when it comes to influencing and responding to narratives about himself.

 

Personally I think there’s a difference between bringing attention to something for the benefit of the skater, vs talking about it in a dismissive, disrespectful and mocking way by treating her behaviour as something intentionally despicable and to be laughed at. There’s ways to bring attention on issues while being understanding, they don’t have to sugarcoat things but neither did they need to be so unapologetic about the very real consequences of their behaviour on others. 

 

Yes Yuzu is not perfect and people are free to dislike his programs. Not sure if you were there, but for years they put their entire focus on highlighting their own negative opinions of him while completely ignoring his strengths. If people are going to learn about skating from them, that’s not responsible journalism. Is mocking his costumes for being too girly over and over again  “constructive criticism”? Is calling his programs having no transitions “constructive criticisms”? How is that even constructive when Yuzu’s programs have the most transitions out of the field? How can they look at the steps and turns and say they don’t exist? Can they even recognise a mohawk and a chasse? If so why are they lying like that? 

 

I can get around people saying he does not have perfect lines and such, but harping on it all the time as if he’s the only one with the issue while failing to mention that all skaters necessarily don’t meet the standards of a professional dancer is not painting the full picture.  He can take constructive criticism, but not every criticism is constructive, and we have the right to call out lies and intentional exaggeration when we see it. 

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, WinForPooh said:

 

lol One of those filter masks. The same one we've seen hurrying after him in airports and when he's walking from lobby to bus so often, we've seen her in so much footage.

 

 

Oy this is like out of a manga or something, the fact that she wears the same exact outfit each time too...

 

They must know and take steps to keep him safe...it would be reckless overwise? Yuzu tends to have bodyguards at every event? Still, must feel unnerving every time they see her. 

 

Although I bet there are many stalkers, but most of them bother to change clothes so are less easily tracked. Probably many who joined TCC as well.

[WinForPooh]

5 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Oy this is like out of a manga or something, the fact that she wears the same exact outfit each time too...

 

They must know and take steps to keep him safe...it would be reckless overwise? Yuzu tends to have bodyguards at every event? Still, must feel unnerving every time they see her. 

 

Although I bet there are many stalkers, but most of them bother to change clothes so are less easily tracked. Probably many who joined TCC as well.

 

Yeah, it is odd. She seems to make no effort to not be noticed as the same stalker every time. And the way she does that tippytoe hurrying thing.

 

Well between the stalker who is bad at being unnoticed and the ones who're good at stalking, I suppose this is actually easier to handle? Much easier to keep an eye on this one.

[Salior]

9 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

 

Yeah, it is odd. She seems to make no effort to not be noticed as the same stalker every time.

 

Well between the stalker who is bad at being unnoticed and the ones who're good at stalking, I suppose this is actually easier to handle? Much easier to keep an eye on this one.

 

Japan isn’t the best at dealing with stalking cases, reports are often dismissed because “they haven’t done anything”, and ignored until girls are murdered. Until the media picks this up and make a big fuss over it, they’ll probably just tell him to “deal with it”

 

 

I think he had a bodyguard last year at ACI, was it in response to this? It really sucks that nothing is done about this for so long

[WinForPooh]

6 minutes ago, Salior said:

 

Japan isn’t the best at dealing with stalking cases, reports are often dismissed because “they haven’t done anything”, and ignored until girls are murdered. Until the media picks this up and make a big fuss over it, they’ll probably just tell him to “deal with it”

 

 

I think he had a bodyguard last year at ACI, was it in response to this? It really sucks that nothing is done about this for so long

 

We know this person was at CoR the last two times Yuzu was there though, so most of our footage is from outside Japan.

 

And we don't know about Yuzu's bodyguards and stuff because he doesn't release information about any of that, we just know about this woman because she has such distinct dressing and mannerisms.

[monchan]

4 hours ago, andchipzz said:

In conclusion, Ari Zakaryan said that there is a perception of greatness and popularity and interest, generate solely by Yuzuru's presence, and figure skating community live in that bubble, not realizing that it will all disappear by the time Yuzuru retires. And the business people behind the scene of figure skating are afraid of it. And, Ari who has proposed for this Awards ceremony since apparently 8 years ago (!), is in the mind that it will be great if there will be post-competition event similar to an Ice Shows, in which, great skaters of the past can actually attend the event for the purpose of receiving Award or giving performance etc.
 

They can't let go of their golden cash cow . And I think they know well skater like Yuzu is once in a lifetime for the sport. I'm not positive there will be another skater with such popularity in a longggg time (ofc they can have loyal fans but not at THIS lvl).

 

As a fan thou, I just want him to produce his own shows (yes "Continue with Wings" series!), and cut off all ties with ISU after retirement. They are rotten, no need to stay for extra fake awards.

[Salior]

7 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

it's exactly what's already happened.

 

although does anyone know for sure that PR increases risk of injury? I feel like it's easier to jump that way because you don't need to rotate as much, so you don't have to jump as high to get the rotation in, so it might actually decrease injuries? but what DOES increase risk of injury is jumping quads without proper skating skills (skating skills go a long way to preventing injuries) and jumping quads for the points when you can't land them consistently yet. 

 

6 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

Honestly I'm not convinced that PR itself causes injuries any more than what comes with jumping in general, but there are certainly other things do cause injuries that come with performing jumps poorly, such as muscling jumps and hammer-toeing and just attempting difficult jumps that one has low probability of landing in general.

 

5 hours ago, shanshani said:

Regarding the media narrative stuff, I don't think it's that complicated or conspiratorial. Does US media want Nathan to win? Yes. That biases their coverage. But I think the turn around on Yuzu is just horse-race/interest generating stuff. There's no larger design other than generating clicks.

 

Plus, like I said elsewhere, the “discourse” overreacts to the most recent event. Like with Nathan winning Worlds, yeah against an injured Yuzuru Hanyu. It wasn't as decisive a victory, nor was Nathan as unbeatable, as the narrative suggested. I'm not trying to take Nathan's win away from him, a win is a win, and Yuzu set a high enough bar that it certainly couldn't have been easy to clear it, but with his injuries, Yuzu could not perform to the maximum of his potential. As we see by the scores at SCI, Yuzu could, in fact, have beaten him if he had been in top condition and skated squeaky clean. Another example, during the early season up until US nationals, it was Yuzu most people thought was unbeatable, injuries aside. 

 

 

I'm not convinced PR is a problem from an injury-causing standpoint either. I think there's some wishful thinking from fans here. Textbook lutzes are more beautiful, but I'm not really sure they're safer. They're certainly harder to land, which increases risk.

 

Anyway, I hope the ISU is starting to realize they really need to fix judging. Increased technical difficulty is interesting, I guess, but people fall in love with the sport because of complete skaters like Yuzu. But it isn't worth being such a skater if there's no reward for it. It's clearly more effective to be a Sasha Trusova instead. So the ISU is literally reducing its pipeline of future stars if they don't get a handle on this problem.

 

I think that's another thing Yuzu is thinking about, the impact of his skating on younger skaters. Because on the one hand, he clearly does want skaters to follow in his footsteps, and that's why he wanted to prove that you could get high scores even if you weren't maxed out on technical difficulty. But on the other hand, he probably also realizes that skaters who follow in his footsteps might be hurting their own careers, because they're making life difficult for themselves by doing things that go unrewarded when they could be training big jumps and simplifying the program so that they land those big jumps instead. And that probably bothers him.

 

Yea I'm not saying that PR is the only or the main cause for causing injury, it's just a part of a list of contributory factors. 

 

However imo it's undeniable that pre-rotation reduces takeoff speed, which may lead to a chain of events that increase the risk of injury. To make a rotation on the ice, some part of the speed during takeoff is lost as friction force to change the direction of the blade, it's just how physics work.  Forces that otherwise contribute to the height and flight time of the jump is reduced, leading to smaller jumps and less reaction time. Skaters that used to have known PR issues like Shoma, Satoko, or skaters that use the skid technique for Axel takeoff that involve 90˚ of pre-rotation like Evan Lysacek had smaller jumps because of this reason. 

 

If the skater has less time to react and land properly, they run the risk of injury, but if they have adapted landing techniques or have small bodies that helps them with flight time, then it might not cause as much of an issue. However not many skaters have this advantage. Whether or not that is actually significant enough to cause injury depends on the skater, and is by no means the sole contributory to risk factors of injuries. But if more and more coaches teach pre-rotated techniques, more skaters will be exposed to this risk factor and not all of them will succeed. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

I've explained a bit about takeoff velocity here

 

Spoiler

On 10/27/2019 at 1:36 AM, Salior said:

bit outdated now, but thought I'd chip in 

 

 

Precisely. The girls can do 4Lz, 4S, 4T, but all of them only have 2A.

 

Something must be up, anyone with common sense can see that there's a gap in logic there. And what's the difference between the Axel and the rest? It's a forward jump so it's physically impossible to pre-rotate >90 degrees! And it's proven by scientific concepts too. Sad that not many people know about this. 

 

To explain this I'll have to go into physics.

 

Velocity is speed + direction. A speed that goes in different directions is not considered to be the same velocity. You can add up or cancel velocities to obtain the final speed of the object. 

 

 

 

Translational velocity is general direction and speed of the entire object,

Tangential velocity is the direction and speed at the edge of a circle.

 

Imagine a tornado. While the entire body is moving around at translational velocity, each particle in the tornado also has its own tangential velocity.

 

The reason tangential velocity exists is because of how forces work. To go around in a circle, there must be a continuous force that changes the direction of the particle. If there are no forces, the particle will just go in a straight line. 

 

 

 

Similarly, as a skater moves across the ice, the skater will have both translational velocity (in the direction of travel), and the tangential velocity (once the skater starts rotating). 

 

Since in the air, there's nothing propelling the skater, the combined velocity at the moment the weight leaves the ice will determine the direction of travel. It's kind of like how you need to push against something to move in outer space. Basic friction and Newton's Third Law. Hence to calculate the final combined velocity, we will consider the tangential velocity at the moment the weight leaves the ice. 

 

Here I use Lz vs Axel for example.

 

Lz is a toe jump, hence once the pick strikes, the weight should leave the ice immediately. Any additional ice marks indicate pre-rotation (as highlighted in yellow). Axel is an edge jump, so naturally it will have a small degree of pre-rotation, as the weight shifts from the entire blade to the ball of the foot for takeoff. Pre-rotation should be penalised when it exceeds 90˚, as per definition. 

 

In Lz, as you can see, despite >90˚ of pre-rotation, the skater can still travel in the initial direction of travel. The same goes for any other non-Axel jumps. 

 

However, in Axel, if you exceed 90˚ of pre-rotation, you'll be travelling backwards. 

 

 

 

 

Or as oonsie puts it - 

 

 

The presence or lack of pre-rotation can be clearly shown when examining the ice tracks made by the jump, by making the surface of the ice darker. It's really a pity that ISU doesn't care about this. 

 

To land a 4Lz, currently the girls rely on their small bodies and extra-fast rotational speed, to make up for the loss of launching speed due to friction on the ice from pre-rotation. A "correct" Lz should be in the air as soon as the toe pick strikes the ice, but with up to 180˚ pre-rotation, you only need to do 3.5 rotations in the air to make a "quad". That's just a little more than a triple Lz. And they can use the same technique for 3Lz so they only have to rotate 2.5 rounds in the air. That's why they can spam jumps after jumps after jumps. 

 

However, they cannot use the same technique on 3A, because they'll lose so much speed from the conflicting direction of tangential and translational velocity, that they'll fall flat on their face. This is why they can have 4Lz, 4S, and 4T, but only 2A. 

 

Imo that's why 3A should be the ultimate test for any skater's jumping ability. It shows your true jumping skills because it's impossible to cheat on it. 

 

 

[Katt]

Not sure if anyone talk about this,  but now that SC is over, Yuzuru officially qualify for Nationals since ACI/SC overlap with regionals/ sectional. This is the same way that he got Nationals spot for the past 2 years despite having seed spot. This season, JSF didn't give him the seed spot, the only way to go to Nationals is doing senior B/GP. Maybe those who rant about him getting special treatment could shut up. And  I pray that we will see him at Nationals this year, its been so long. Be healthy and careful Yuzuru !!!!!! 

[Fay]

Just now, Katt said:

Not sure if anyone talk about this,  but now that SC is over, Yuzuru officially qualify for Nationals since ACI/SC overlap with regionals/ sectional. This is the same way that he got Nationals spot for the past 2 years despite having seed spot. This season, JSF didn't give him the seed spot, the only to go to Nationals is doing senior B/GP. Maybe those who rant about him getting special treatment could shut up. And  I pray that we will see him at Nationals this year, its been so long. Be healthy and careful Yuzuru !!!!!! 

The idea of him needing to qualify for Nationals is ridiculous. 

[shanshani]

35 minutes ago, Fay said:

The idea of him needing to qualify for Nationals is ridiculous. 

lol just imagine

 

"Sorry, I know you're our two time and reigning Olympic champion and best skater, but you didn't do x and y competition so you don't qualify to compete."