General Yuzuru Chat

[makebelieveup]

13 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I think you are either far more objective than I can be or more positive, but it also feels like to me like these new changes came about after they sat down and watched Yuzu's programs throughout last season to find things they could penalize more, that hadn't been penalized enough for their taste. I doubt anyone would care about a double jump in the short program being worth 0 points or -5 points if Yuzu hadn't almost reached 100 points despite having an invalid element in his short. Minimizing the penalty for underrotating and for long preparation before jumps is also hard to ignore, considering one of Yuzu's 'rivals' is a well known underrotator  (who I think didn't get many UR calls at Worlds, which then resulted in a third place), and the other, bigger rival, is always criticized for long preparation (by those who still do criticize him).

 

On top of that, like you said, the quad scores don't have much logic, but if we take round numbers as a logic, then 4A should have been 12, given the way the others increase. Or, it could have just as well stayed 15, because that was far more round than 12.5 and even though there have been others showing an interest in it, only one skater has ever stated it very seriously and is generally believed to have a big chance at it. (I'm not sure Keegan had spoken about it before the score change, but Yuzu had.)

 

And on top of that, while to some extent I get it, the 'lack of energy' bit also feels dedicated, given Yuzu's well known stamina issues and the fact that he did lack some energy in the FS at Worlds. One wonders how they'll judge that for songs that are meant to be slow and lacking in energy...

 

I'm not sure if I seriously believe ISU is anti-Yuzu, but they do seem really great at shooting themselves in both feet... I'm not sure how other sports treat their top stars, but I have a hard time believing it's quite like this.

 

I also remember last year a lot of people were saying that the rules were in Yuzu's favor, not Nathan's, the GOE changes would help him and that the only repeat one quad rule would benefit those with lesser quads and I could never understand why they thought that. I'd say it turns out they were wrong all along and in my bias, I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence that suddenly Yuzu's GOE and PCS advantages have virtually vanished after the rule change.

Thank you. i dont think we need to be objective when it comes to the isu. they are known for changing the rules to fit their agenda, its not a surprising thing. its just really sad at this point that i cant even enjoy my off season

[Yuzurella]

What a sweetheart!

 

I've come to a point where I'm just grateful for every single moment that I get to watch Yuzu on the ice, every single season that he decides to keep competing and - most importantly - every single time he's happy and gifts us with his radiant smiles. Now more than ever, I appreciate Yuzu's special existence and all the wonderful experiences he's given us. I just wanna cherish the fact that he's doing what he loves doing and blessing the world with his presence.

 

I trust in Yuzu, his intelligence and his intuition. And as long as he feels that he still wants to compete, as long as he still enjoys it, I will support him and trust that he and his team will make the best out of this situation, regardless of any unreasonable rules. I'm just happy that I get to support and accompany him on his journey.

[eagle]

34 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

 

 

I'm not sure if I seriously believe ISU is anti-Yuzu, but they do seem really great at shooting themselves in both feet... I'm not sure how other sports treat their top stars, but I have a hard time believing it's quite like this.

In this regard, I would say quite pathetic, compared to 3 other sports that I follow. They are Summer sports though. 

I have always thought Winter sports have some ways to go to catch up with summer sports in terms rules, competency, handling of injured athletes.

Summer sports have a higher profile & better known worldwide. So anything that happens get amplified 5 to 10X more.

 

ISU seems cant wait for Yuzu to retire. They want to get their grubby hands on the profits they can make from the next star - Nathan.

I remember a VP of ISU from an European country saying in 2017 saying 'Figure skating is dying.' when FS is growing in Asia.

So, whether the ISU top brass are interested in promoting FS worldwide or just within their continents

 

As for the revised rules(yet again), it doesnt only put Yuzu at a disadvantage but other skaters like Mikhail Kolyada.

Kolyada, this season especially  tends to double his 4S. The -5 penalty for falls rule this season is also a disadvantage for Kolyada too. He cant do his planned 4 Lutz anymore.

 

 

[surfaçage]

20 minutes ago, Yuzurella said:

What a sweetheart!

 

I've come to a point where I'm just grateful for every single moment that I get to watch Yuzu on the ice, every single season that he decides to keep competing and - most importantly - every single time he's happy and gifts us with his radiant smiles. Now more than ever, I appreciate Yuzu's special existence and all the wonderful experiences he's given us. I just wanna cherish the fact that he's doing what he loves doing and blessing the world with his presence.

 

I trust in Yuzu, his intelligence and his intuition. And as long as he feels that he still wants to compete, as long as he still enjoys it, I will support him and trust that he and his team will make the best out of this situation, regardless of any unreasonable rules. I'm just happy that I get to support and accompany him on his journey.

couldn't agree more on what you said.

thanks for expressing so fairly what i am feeling.

But i do like a winning yuzu

 

 

[makebelieveup]

27 minutes ago, eagle said:

In this regard, I would say quite pathetic, compared to 3 other sports that I follow. They are Summer sports though. 

I have always thought Winter sports have some ways to go to catch up with summer sports in terms rules, competency, handling of injured athletes.

Summer sports have a higher profile & better known worldwide. So anything that happens get amplified 5 to 10X more.

 

ISU seems cant wait for Yuzu to retire. They want to get their grubby hands on the profits they can make from the next star - Nathan.

I remember a VP of ISU from an European country saying in 2017 saying 'Figure skating is dying.' when FS is growing in Asia.

So, whether the ISU top brass are interested in promoting FS worldwide or just within their continents

 

As for the revised rules(yet again), it doesnt only put Yuzu at a disadvantage but other skaters like Mikhail Kolyada.

Kolyada, this season especially  tends to double his 4S. The -5 penalty for falls rule this season is also a disadvantage for Kolyada too. He cant do his planned 4 Lutz anymore.

 

 

The -5 on the falls sort of makes sense at first because personally i find that it causes a disruption in a program. its one of those things that audience had questioned before hence, the isu came out with this rule..the idea behind it is to reward a lower bv element done cleanly while penalizing a higher bv element done poorly. this is to incentivize skaters to limit quads so they focus on what they do best i.e. jason brown with a clean skate with triples in his sp was able to top nathan's sp with a serious mistake. but the problem is the way the judges are scoring these elements. triples are often rewarded with lower goes when executed well than a quad when executed poorly. in addition to that, judges will throw in points for every other element for their chosen skaters where casual audience tend not to pay attention to like spins and stsq. the results will show the people with a higher bv even if they made mistakes get a higher tes and that will also mean higher pcs. and honestly, the reason why nathan lost the sp at gp idf to jason was bc he lost spin levels and his jump mistake was serious. yet he was only like 6 points behind a squeaky clean jason. 

 

and back to the new rule..so it makes no sense for a popped element to get a -5 bc 1. i dont find it disrupting any flow of the progam 2. its like getting double penalization 3.  it is basically saying oh its better if you attempt a quad or quint, fall on it or underrotate it, than pop an element. because not only are you not getting any point for it, your overall score will get a -5 deduction. (if this is what im understanding)

 

that to me is nothing different from the +3/-3 last system

[Marte]

8 hours ago, faeline said:

I swear Yuzu fans have the best eyesight ever. Well trained in "How to spot a ninja in action".

 

I know, right? 

However we need FaoI to restore the balance of the universe after all this "news"  

[Yuzurella]

50 minutes ago, surfaçage said:

couldn't agree more on what you said.

thanks for expressing so fairly what i am feeling.

But i do like a winning yuzu

 

 

 

And Yuzu still can and will win every competition he's in when he's healthy and in good shape. So, let's pray to the skating gods that Yuzu will get through at least one whole season in perfect health!

[Ashley2162018]

All I can say is rewarding under rotations more is just telling everyone its okay to cheat jumps.

So much for "sport" as a way to challenge yourself .

Are they telling the future skaters that its okay not to perfect their skills?

[ruruzest]

3 hours ago, Ashley2162018 said:

All I can say is rewarding under rotations more is just telling everyone its okay to cheat jumps.

So much for "sport" as a way to challenge yourself .

Are they telling the future skaters that its okay not to perfect their skills?

The ultimate corruption! That’s what it is!

Has this been shared?

 

[Henni147]

7 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

and back to the new rule..so it makes no sense for a popped element to get a -5

 

The thing is: At Worlds Yuzu's popped 4S didn't really get -5 GOE. In fact: It didn't get any GOE at all 

The scoresheet looked like this:

2S*   BV: 0.00  GOE: - - - - - - - - -   total: 0.00

*invalid Element

 

If that pop had happened in the freeskate, I think it would've looked like this (more or less):

Spoiler

2S     BV: 1.30     GOE: 0 +1 +1 +3 (Italian judge)  -1 0 -3 (US judge) +1 0     total: 1.35

 

So yeah, in the free a pop into a double gets a bit more than 1 point. In the short 0. Not that it really matters... The damage is done with the pop either way.

 

#Sidenote: a 2S with -5 GOE would receive 0.65 points.

 

 

To the judging system in general: in my opinion the corpus is fine, but the details like bullets, PCS guidelines or error features for calls are too vague, unbalanced or non-existing in the handbook. They leave too much room for inappropriate scoring:

Spoiler

Example 1: you cannot see in the scoresheet where the final GOE come from. Which bullets does the jump satisfy according to judge 4?

Example 2: what does "good height and distance" mean? Higher than 50cm and further than 3m? In that case skater A with 70cm and 3.80m gets the same reward or even less than skater B with 55cm, 2.90m (~3m) and additional features. Well.

Example 3: "the jump is effortless throughout". Means... what? exactly? Less than half rink preparation, no fight in the air and no fight for the landing? Ewn... I think we already have three other equal bullets for that one?

Example 4: I still have no idea what you have to do for a 7.75 in composition. It has to be visibly better than 7.50, but definitely worse than 8.00. Now you only have to know, what a 7.50 or 8.00 composition looks like. Meow.

 

 

EDIT: forget about the entire post. I just realized that we have updates in the judging system for the  next season. And I'm still like... wait, WHAT?! It's disgusting, really.

[Henni147]

3 hours ago, ruruzest said:

The ultimate corruption! That’s what it is!

Has this been shared?

 

 

 

Quote

Q: In 2004. That was, when you were about 10 years old.

H: That was 2004, and I was only about 9 years old.

[Fay]

Will boys who are under nine be trying Chopin or Otonal as a tribute later on? Keep watching FS, ladies and gentlemen, and you might live enough to learn just that... 

[rockstaryuzu]

3 hours ago, ruruzest said:

The ultimate corruption! That’s what it is!

Has this been shared?

 

I really like what Yuzu says there about Shae's skating and how it's helping to move him towards his 'ideal of skating' . I've always found Shae's own performances to be something completely different from other ice dancers - even back when she was with her skating partner, they stood out as people with a different concept and a unique vision. Nice to know Yuzu sees it too, and wants to incorporate it into his own work. 

[rockstaryuzu]

10 minutes ago, Fay said:

Will boys who are under nine be trying Chopin or Otonal as a tribute later on? Keep watching FS, ladies and gentlemen, and you might live enough to learn just that... 

Fast forward to 2032 and some fresh-faced young lad will be doing Origin all over again, tribute to Yuzu. 

 

But even his contemporaries are doing it - did you see all the hydroblades and high-kick Axel landings that popped up this season? crazy. 

 

[Henni147]

9 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Fast forward to 2032 and some fresh-faced young lad will be doing Origin all over again, tribute to Yuzu. 

 

But even his contemporaries are doing it - did you see all the hydroblades and high-kick Axel landings that popped up this season? crazy. 

 

 

Not to mention the number of back-counter 3A's and Yuzu-like costumes 

 

I think Yuzu wanted to do that twizzle+3A+twizzle this season, because the back-counter has become too mainstream 

Same with the hydroblading. It's not enough to simply hydro in FS and EX anymore. To stand out, you have to do it in the SP, too! Aaaand in your EX it has to last longer than 10 seconds, be 0.005mm close to the ice and you have to kiss it. Because standards.