General Yuzuru Chat

[wpisces]

30 minutes ago, Frenchkiss70 said:

I am totally with you here!!! I hate that narrative saying Yuzu wouldn’t have won even with two clean skates, it’s even more upsetting when fanyus are believing that nonsense. When I saw that 4F ur live and the massive GOEs it got anyway I knew we were about to watch a robbery

Nobody knows if 2 clean programs from Yuzuru can beat Chen or not until both of them skate clean in a same competition.  So it is nonsense to start the topic. 

[YellowShib]

6 hours ago, ICeleste said:

No, I do not think he should always win no matter what. This is the first time I ever argue that Yuzu was robbed of a medal. "Nathan had excellent skates" I don't think so at all. We have very different definitions of excellence... It is a fact that Chen only won because of his inflated PCs and especially his overscored GOE. BTW PCs aren't supposed to be a subjective score, it's not about "being the better artist".
The popped Salchow is completely irrelevant. Even if he had landed it he'd still have a silver.

I don't like using the word "brainwashed" but that's all I can think about when I read you say Nathan has a "tremendous technical arsenal". Like I mentioned in my previous post, Chen's BV was only 4pts higher in the FS. And do you know that GOE is also a part of the TES? On a fair system, Yuzu should win the highest TES based on GOE. 

I'm genuinely baffled that even Yuzuru fans don't see anything wrong with the fact that a clean Yuzu would've lost to a skater who barely deserves any +GOE on his jumps and who didn't have a much higher BV.
Also please never compare 2012 Yuzuru to current Nathan again... When he turned senior, Yuzuru had to build his way up and fight for every single point, no one gifted him +94 PCs and +3 GOE just for having the highest BV. No one is bullying Nathan, he's a very nice person but he's not a victim, he's the one benefitting from this rigged judging system.

Agreed completely. And I'd like to add my 2cents.

 

Let's put it another way. If it were a hypothetical person in Yuzu's place, complete stranger to us and without the emotional attachment, would anyone still say the same? Or would they be much more straightforward with their opinions regarding the placements, instead of sidestepping the real issue. I've mentioned it before, but when scores are what directly create medal outcome, why would anyone think that medal outcome won't changed should the scores be handed out more objectively? It might not in some cases, but in this one, well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

A skater who delivers get the score, yes. But to get bonus, well, you must deliver past the average. And it can also happen that one's best may not equal another's not-at-best, when their foundations are on different levels. 

 

P/s: on a lighter note, I realized this is my 3rd post, so eh, I delurked I guess 😌 Please excuse my aggressive first impression, I think we've been through a lot. I am not usually so vocal, but I do slip when things get tough.

[shanshani]

31 minutes ago, Frenchkiss70 said:

I am totally with you here!!! I hate that narrative saying Yuzu wouldn’t have won even with two clean skates, it’s even more upsetting when fanyus are believing that nonsense. When I saw that 4F ur live and the massive GOEs it got anyway I knew we were about to watch a robbery

The narrative that Yuzu wouldn't have won with two clean skates is plain incorrect. Just the two 4S landed at usual quality would have been enough to close the gap--he got 14 points on his 4S at both Rostelecom and Cup of Finland. He got 0 points and 6 points here. So just those two jumps by themselves is 22 points of difference, and he would have gotten higher PCS had he gotten them, which is enough to put him over. This is just math. The only counterargument is that Nathan would have added 4S if Yuzu had done a clean short, which, maybe, but there's a lot of what-ifs there. Yuzu can beat the score that Nathan actually got, that's for sure, though I think the ankle was unfortunately a big impediment for it actually happening at Worlds.

 

cross forum sniping

Spoiler

someone got super upset with me for pointing this out at GS lol

 

[kaeryth]

 

[kaeryth]

New magazine cover

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

[kaeryth]

 

[Moria Polonius]

1 hour ago, shanshani said:

The narrative that Yuzu wouldn't have won with two clean skates is plain incorrect. Just the two 4S landed at usual quality would have been enough to close the gap--he got 14 points on his 4S at both Rostelecom and Cup of Finland. He got 0 points and 6 points here. So just those two jumps by themselves is 22 points of difference, and he would have gotten higher PCS had he gotten them, which is enough to put him over. This is just math. The only counterargument is that Nathan would have added 4S if Yuzu had done a clean short, which, maybe, but there's a lot of what-ifs there. Yuzu can beat the score that Nathan actually got, that's for sure, though I think the ankle was unfortunately a big impediment for it actually happening at Worlds.

 

cross forum sniping

  Hide contents

someone got super upset with me for pointing this out at GS lol

 

 

Didn't x-monster calculate that if Yuzu had gone clean on both Sals, he probably would have won? She calculated 15 pts extra in SP and 7.5 in FS, plus possibly a point or two extra for PCS. The margin would have been tiny, but it'd have been doable. I really think that all the quads are not necessary for him to get back to the top of the podium, just 4A would be enough. He could get similar layout to Nathan, with 2 3T combos. 

 

Really, Yuzu's worst enemy is his own health. When he's healthy, we get the 2015 GP or Helsinki 2017 performances. And given the recent interviews we can only hope that his ankle will recover somehow and that he won't get injured again somehow. That's a tall order.

 

 

That said, Yuzu's back in Canada already? I thought he'd stay in Japan for holiday, press, tv appearances until his rummored guest appearance at WTT. What's so pressing in Canada? The treatment?

[Moria Polonius]

8 hours ago, ICeleste said:

No, I do not think he should always win no matter what. This is the first time I ever argue that Yuzu was robbed of a medal. "Nathan had excellent skates" I don't think so at all. We have very different definitions of excellence... It is a fact that Chen only won because of his inflated PCs and especially his overscored GOE. BTW PCs aren't supposed to be a subjective score, it's not about "being the better artist".
The popped Salchow is completely irrelevant. Even if he had landed it he'd still have a silver.

I don't like using the word "brainwashed" but that's all I can think about when I read you say Nathan has a "tremendous technical arsenal". Like I mentioned in my previous post, Chen's BV was only 4pts higher in the FS. And do you know that GOE is also a part of the TES? On a fair system, Yuzu should win the highest TES based on GOE. 

I'm genuinely baffled that even Yuzuru fans don't see anything wrong with the fact that a clean Yuzu would've lost to a skater who barely deserves any +GOE on his jumps and who didn't have a much higher BV.
Also please never compare 2012 Yuzuru to current Nathan again... When he turned senior, Yuzuru had to build his way up and fight for every single point, no one gifted him +94 PCs and +3 GOE just for having the highest BV. No one is bullying Nathan, he's a very nice person but he's not a victim, he's the one benefitting from this rigged judging system.

 

Oh please, that's some really convoluted reasoning. An invalidated quad and an underrotated and badly landed one are irrelevant? When the opponent landed 6 quads with higher value cleanly? You must be joking.  Had Yuzu landed those cleanly, he'd have won even in the face of Nathan's overscoring. And yes, for what it was, namely from the athletic point of view, Nathan's skates were excellent. No, not as good as Yuzu can be at his best, because Yuzu goes beyond excellent and into sublime, but I'm not above admitting someone merit where it's due. I would have scored Nathan 15 - 20 pts lower than he was, but with those 2 mistakes of Yuzu, that would probably be Nathan's win anyway. 

[Marte]

Hi everyone, I'm new here but I'm so happy to be able to connect with people with similar interests to mine! Around me nobody follows fs so finally I decided to sign up here (especially after the madness of the WC). You all are an important source of updates for me and this is certainly a happy paradise for a Yuzu fan, I'm gonna dive in this thread now. I hope we will get along ..... and excuse me for my horrible english, I hope to improve it!  Have a good day!

[sallycinnamon]

Another magazine 

 

 

[yuzupon]

My unasked 2 cents as one of those Fanyus who believed Chen won this WC.

 

Do I think that 20+ margin was acceptable? Not in a million years.

But did Chen won? Yes. Because Yuzu did make mistakes. We can dispute the UR call on his FS' 4S (I personally think it was borderline, certain other top skaters would only get reduction on GOE), but there is no disputing the pop 4S on the SP. Additionally, would I justifiably claim that Yuzu executed every single elements to perfection on Origin? No, I wouldn't, because he didn't.

 

The narrative that Yuzu wouldn't have won even with 2 clean skates is wrong (even if Yuzu himself claimed this, sorry Zu). But the fact is, both his skates were not clean. And that's why he lost. The score is wrong. But Chen's higher BV PLUS Yuzu's mistakes made him lost. Had Chen came from a slightly less powerful feds and had judges be a bit more competent the score wouldn't have that big of a margin, but Chen would have still won. 

 

So, let's see what I believe:

1. Clean back-to-back Yuzu would have won

2. But Yuzu made very costly mistake in SP

3. And his FS wasn't squeaky clean either

4. So, Chen, who made less mistakes that are less costly, won. Even if the margin is an absolute bullshit.

5. I am bitter about it. I want Yuzu to win, but I know he lost, albeit with way smaller margin. I don't think I'm being a fanatical Fanyu or an overly-rational-hence-a-travesty-of-a-fanyu about this. I am just being reasonable, even if my heart is screaming in pain.

[kaeryth]

10 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

The narrative that Yuzu wouldn't have won even with 2 clean skates is wrong (even if Yuzu himself claimed this, sorry Zu)

 

There is the perception of that now mainly because of 2 things.

The scores indicate that Nathan has basically closed the PCS and GOE gap that Yuzu had over him.

If Yuzu had been clean would Nathan still get those inflated PCS/GOE? We don't know.

 

Saying Yuzu's jump wasn't his best is also erroneous.

Yes, most of the jumps wasn't a Yuzu-standard jump BUT he still ticked enough GOE bullets for most of his jumps to warrant better GOEs than Nathan.

We're not supposed to judge him against a Yuzu-standard. We're supposed to judge him using the rulebook.

 

Nathan got higher GOEs for his spins, steps, and choreo sequence as well.

His TR marks were in the 9s even though Raf himself admitted that the program had no transitions.

 

[Umebachi]

3 hours ago, Frenchkiss70 said:

Welcome And it’s nice to have a fellow dressage rider, yay! My son is also competing in eventing. And here I thought I ranted enough about dressage protocols, it was childplay compared to FS 

 

Frenchkiss70!  Lovely to meet a fellow dressage rider on the Planet!  Perhaps we should start a new section comparing dressage and FS.  I agree the dressage protocols are not as bad as FS - it has improved a bit and FEI now has live boxes (like FS!) showing scores - but what is much worse is the training of horses and forcing horses to do Grand Prix level movements on incorrect (and non-classical posture) is criminal...don't get me started!  But I am getting off the topic...   

On Yuzu Fairy fan forum on FB, I had an exchange with another dressage person - who had compared Yuzu as a Spanish Riding School Lippizaner vs Nathan as a thoroughbred racer.  I loved the comparison but I responded that in terms of physical look (not performance) I thought Yuzu would be a golden Akhal Teke (hence the photo in my first post) - the most golden and leggiest of the proud equine line.  The other person thought Yuzu could be compared to a golden Lippizaner-Akhal Teke cross, truly a golden unicorn!  I love that visual.   

Isn't amazing that our love for the spacekitty connects us in so many levels and pushes the boundaries of our imagination?  

[anski]

39 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

Another magazine 

 

 

I love that photo!!! I wish he would style his hair like this more often and not just for programs