General Yuzuru Chat

[eagle]

32 minutes ago, robin said:

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think if any offense was taken it’s not because anyone considers restrained a bad attribute. It’s because you assume Yuzu restained based on the fact that he is Japanese. 

It is not an assumption, it's based on his LGC performances and my standard of rockstar(but hey my standards are high). Real life rockstars which I named in later posts. It's still restrained by comparison to those guys of course. It doesnt diminish Yuzu's ability in any way.

 

2nd, off ice - restrained as in Yuzu's many interviews over the years,2012 to 2018. Polite, diplomatic and all that. Restrained even by Asian standards in some ways, but more open by Japanese standards I reckon. Some Japanese, I cannot get them to say they dont like something, they'll go about it in such roundabout way it gives me headache.

Still not an assumption, there are norms to be compared to.

 

And then, another forumer mentioned about being careful about some 'generational generalization' when i talk about different tastes of younger generation. soo many rules. So yeah, that'll help dispel the notion that figure skating fans are sensitive.

[yuzupon]

36 minutes ago, eagle said:

It's normal discussion. The fans need not be so sensitive as to take offence to the 'generational' thingy. If that also want to be sensitive, oh gosh..... hahaha

 

I'm going to ad hominem territory here, which by your respond and the way you only respond to that 'also' part of my reply regarding literal rockstars vs rockstar aura, I will consider a normal discussion. Unless the mods tell me that's not, that is.

 

It's 'generational thingy' and Asian's in general but Japanese in particular 'restrained persona'. That's 2 generalisations in the span of 16 posts. Whew.

 

It's funny that you are insisting on knowing the 'restrained' of Asians cz you yourself are Asian, and yet, this is how you post things.

 

Look, saying you don't like Yuzu's interpretation of LGC for whatever reason is fine (I personally don't like LGC aesthetically - rocks hurt my ears, the costume hurts my eyes. But I am more than in awe of the technical prowess it takes for him to bring that performance out. He took it to the point where you won't be able to mistake that program for any of his more flowy, ethereal programs, even if the music is not on. It also shows Yuzu's versatility as a performer). You wouldn't get the reactions you are getting at the moment. What you are doing, saying Yuzu wasn't able to properly embodied the rockstar feel of the program because he is Japanese who are stereotypically more restrained, is the problem. You are basically putting Yuzu in the usual 'he is Japanese' box, which is not only very a shallow move but also it is the VERY thing we are raging against the typical western media coverage of him.

 

And again, we are talking about Yuzu interpreting a rock song in a figure skating performance, not him trying to imitate your precious rockstars. Dear God, please let at least that point get through.

 

ETA: just saw your post above mine. Alright then, you don't think Yuzu is a rockstar. I concur. Should have just stop there, instead of playing the 'it feels like a Japanese trying so hard to look like a rockstar', which is the point where I go 'WHUT? How does Yuzu being a Japanese preclude him not being a rockstar? And so, does that mean no Japanese can be a rockstar?'

[Fay]

7 minutes ago, eagle said:

It is not an assumption, it's based on his LGC performances and my standard of rockstar. Real life rockstars which I named in later posts. It's still restrained by comparison to those guys of course. It doesnt diminish Yuzu's ability in any way.

 

2nd, off ice - restrained as in Yuzu's many interviews over the years,2012 to 2018. Polite, diplomatic and all that. Restrained even by Asian standards in some ways, but more open by Japanese standards I reckon. Some Japanese, I cannot get them to say they dont like something, they'll go about it in such roundabout way it gives me headache.

Still not an assumption, there are norms to be compared to.

 

 

Ok, I suggest we put out some real rock stars onto the ice, have them perform ice skating programs for 2 and a half minutes and compare their performance to Yuzu’s. Wanna bet who’s going to win that performance? Because you’re throwing Yuzu into a pretty unfair competition to start with, why should these guys have a head Start? 

Yuzu’s an athlete, not a rock star on the stage holding a microphone. We know that much. But he sold LGC so well that I’ve seen some real Yuzu haters grudgingly admit it was a great performance. 

[kaeryth]

@eagle Maybe your perception of LGC and Yuzu's rockstar-ness might be a bit skewed because you are a die-hard Prince fan. But how do you feel about Parisienne Walkways (especially the one he did at FaOI 2017), Change at TOI 2014 or even Hello I Love You and Vertigo at FaOI 2015?

[robin]

1 minute ago, eagle said:

It is not an assumption, it's based on his LGC performances and my standard of rockstar. Real life rockstars which I named in later posts. It's still restrained by comparison to those guys of course. It doesnt diminish Yuzu's ability in any way.

 

2nd, off ice - restrained as in Yuzu's many interviews over the years,2012 to 2018. Polite, diplomatic and all that. Restrained even by Asian standards in some ways, but more open by Japanese standards I reckon. Some Japanese, I cannot get them to say they dont like something, they'll go about it in such roundabout way it gives me headache.

Still not an assumption, there are norms to be compared to.

 

 

 

I am sorry for misunderstanding you then because it sounded alot like you were saying Yuzu is restrained in his performances because he is Japanese. Yuzu not being a rockstar is your opinion and you are welcome to express and defend it.

[Yuazz]

4 minutes ago, robin said:

Fitting the current subject I just found this German article http://www.dw.com/de/yuzuru-hanyu-der-schüchterne-star/a-42624116

 

The title goes "Yuzuru Hanyu- the shy star" the article later says that Yuzu is genrally considered shy. I'm completely lost to where that comes from because he is anything but shy.... I think in a lot of cases people's own observations of Yuzu (and other Japnese skaters) are overwritten by their preconceptions of what Japanese/Asian people are like. They don't bother properly observing Yuzu and taking a look at him which influences his reputation which in retun influences how judges score him and that is harmful. So I think we should be careful in how we project our cultural preconceptions on skaters

As a shy and quite introverted person, I wouldn't say that yuzu is a shy person. If he's really is a shy person, I was surprised how he manage to interact so openly with other skaters and act so free on ice (or sometimes he acts weird that I can't understand him but he's still cute lol). Iirc he even talks or the one who started the conversation with other athletes. If I was him, I wouldn't dare to and keep my mouth shut. 

[dotsquare]

Sliding in to say what has already been said, so I'll keep it short. Yuzu has the ability to captivate people who have never paid any attention to figure skating (like myself) and has the ability to make thousands of people from all over the world travel to watch him perform for a few minutes. When he skates, all eyes are on him. And when he attends a competition, getting tickets is a compete bloodbath  If that's not a rockstar, I'm not sure what is. 

 

On a more positive note, we're one week away from CIONTU! 

[Leanna A]

28分鐘前, MrPudding說:

 

Hope that they produce more as many fans are in desperate need of the goods.  

 

Please, also make them know that there is a desperate hope & need that they sell the rubber bracelets and CWW goods online for overseas fans. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eagle]

10 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

 

I'm going to ad hominem territory here, which by your respond and the way you only respond to that 'also' part of my reply regarding literal rockstars vs rockstar aura, I will consider a normal discussion. Unless the mods tell me that's not, that is.

 

It's 'generational thingy' and Asian's in general but Japanese in particular 'restrained persona'. That's 2 generalisations in the span of 16 posts. Whew.

 

It's funny that you are insisting on knowing the 'restrained' of Asians cz you yourself are Asian, and yet, this is how you post things.

 

Look, saying you don't like Yuzu's interpretation of LGC for whatever reason is fine (I personally don't like LGC aesthetically - rocks hurt my ears, the costume hurts my eyes. But I am more than in awe of the technical prowess it takes for him to bring that performance out. He took it to the point where you won't be able to mistake that program for any of his more flowy, ethereal programs, even if the music is not on. It also shows Yuzu's versatility as a performer). You wouldn't get the reactions you are getting at the moment. What you are doing, saying Yuzu wasn't able to properly embodied the rockstar feel of the program because he is Japanese who are stereotypically more restrained, is the problem. You are basically putting Yuzu in the usual 'he is Japanese' box, which is not only very a shallow move but also it is the VERY thing we are raging against the typical western media coverage of him.

 

And again, we are talking about Yuzu interpreting a rock song in a figure skating performance, not him trying to imitate your precious rockstars. Dear God, please let at least that point get through.

I do find it more restrained actually, and said so.  Even my 80 year old mother said so. It does not diminish Yuzu's skating ability in any way.

Cos by saying Yuzu is restrained by his Japaneseness is saying he restrained by his Asianess. Which in turn is saying myself, . His Asian restraint is coming thru the LGC, from ACI to WTT performances. It's still very very good performance of course.

 

So, if just by saying that you guys get so sensitive, then I dunno how you all survive others sports where stuff 100 worse are said about ones favourite. We take all in stride

 

 

 

 

 

[Sombreuil]

I can appreciate LGC for its complexity and his performance whilst disliking the song.  I think he does rock well - I just wish JB had pointed him in the direction of one of the other rock stars instead of Prince.  I have never seen him live, but even through the tv you can see the way that even in practices the atmosphere in the rink ramps up as soon as he appears - that is what we mean by the rock star aura.  If he had used Bowie I wouldn't have expected him to try and be Bowie - I would have been interested to see how he interpreted whatever track he chose.

As for the generation thing - we're a mixed bunch here, from dinosaurs like me through to a few who are still at school - it's perhaps less of a factor than one might think.

[Fay]

Let’s agree to disagree then. That’s it. Most people here love the LGC Yuzu - and happen to think he skated with enough abandon given it’s a competitive program. Not a rock concert, incidentally. 

[yuzupon]

@eagle I give up.

[Fay]

Just now, yuzupon said:

@eagle I give up.

You don’t have to. @eaglenever bothered answering any of the criticisms about their point of view - and just went on repeating the same message of comparing apples and oranges.  

[nihil]

4 minutes ago, eagle said:

So, if just by saying that you guys get so sensitive, then I dunno how you all survive others sports where stuff 100 worse are said about ones favourite. We take all in stride

Well, I didn't get sensitive I just completely disagree with you  

btw, Brian Orser  said that Yuzuru used to be way too wild and passionate on ice so they had to to tame him a bit. Surprisingly,  a "restrained by nationality" Japanese turned out to be too emotional for a "westerner".

[Leanna A]

3小時前, eagle說:

 

Hope & legacy was too subtle in it's message/nuances, it didnt come across as rising up from Tsunami , even from my Asian eyes(that's what Shae LB said the message was)

 

From the interviews of Shae Lynn and Yuzu, H&L is about Yuzu’s skating life and nature.

So, what you mentioned is ONLY one  of the many elements of the whole story, I believe.