General Yuzuru Chat

[MrPudding]

@PapiandPooh421 ok this we don't need google translate!

[PapiandPooh422]

25 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

@PapiandPooh421 ok this we don't need google translate!

I don't know. When Twitter translated it, it doesn't make any sense. 

[GreatLakesGal]

Has anyone posted a link yet to Phil Hersh's article on Yuzu? I miss a lot of posts (can't keep up with you guys!) but I didn't see it in his News thread:

 

http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2017/11/14/hanyu-skating-olympics-jumps-korea-japan

 

Phil believes Yuzu should forget about the quad lutz and also wrote:

 

Quote

 

Orser demurred on the question of whether he will counsel Hanyu to forget the quad lutz, which he executed impressively in the free skate at October’s Rostelecom Cup Grand Prix event in Russia.  Mistakes on a quad loop and a quad toe-triple toe combination in the Rostelecom short program were his undoing, leave Hanyu second overall to Chen.

“(The) first priority is to let him heal from his injury,” Orser said.  “That’s about all I can say at this point.”

 

 

[Aotoshiro]

10 hours ago, PapiandPooh421 said:

I have a confession to make. When I browse the net and see Yuzu adorable pics I always tell myself "You didn't see anything! You didn't see anything!" and yet my phone's gallery grows day by day.

 

Btw, with you telling that my music player is a great sound-and-pic oracle, I don't know what to feel when my screen greeted me with this... 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PapiandPooh421/status/930620868765429760/photo/1

And it doesn't help Zhenya that the first lines of the song is 

Oh, boy I love you so

And I will never let you go

It's also a shipper it seems

 

9 hours ago, singcarcom said:

 

Oh god, your phone is a genius!!! 

 

 

Sometimes, it's hard to ignore the unfair criticisms though 

 

*Breaks WR* "Overscored!!!" 

*Doesn't break WR* "He's no longer relevant!!!* 

'Hanyu overscored'

'Is his zero points too high?'

Still my favorite gem of the NHK stream

 

9 hours ago, Xen said:

Nah, it's like a forbidden love for them. Like they love YUzu, but they are told to be proper little media they cannot love Yuzu, cause he hurts their own Feds favorites, it crossing lines, borders and standard barriers. So they are conflicted, then hate themselves for loving this thing they are not allowed to love, and in the depths of their despair the only release valve is to say how bad he is. 

 

In reality probably not the case, but this psycho drama is way more interesting as a reason.

 

9 hours ago, Anony said:

Ph1l Hershey bar bought out every magazine with Yuzuru's face in Kinokuniya. He has constructed two shrines dedicated to his one true love, Yuzuru Hanyu. Every night, after supper, he prays to the shrine for letting him eat without choking and before bed he lights up his Bath and Body Works scented candles by the Yuzuru Hanyu altar by his bed and stares at how beautifully the 27383 magazine cut outs of Yuzuru looks lit red and orange by the candle flame. He then takes out his copy of Blue Flames to read to himself and his Pooh plush for a bed time story and then lovingly tuck Pooh in, knowing his love Yuzuru would be proud of his act of kindness. Ph1lly then tuck himself to bed, to spend the night dreaming of the Prince of his heart, Yuzuru Hanyu.

 

 

Tbc

Okay, you two. Come ovr to AO3. Now. We need people with brains like yours.

 

7 hours ago, katonice said:

And P&G takes the cake for things you do when you miss Yuzu...

 

It's actually cute how you can see they are missing him so much...even if their reason lays also in Yuzuru presence= from his fans equation xD

 

5 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

Like, plan A was to take both and plan B was to do good at Sochi and get all the EXP he can to kick ass at the final stage at PC. But he knew plan B has always been the more realistic one, and even though he skated as though he was putting plan A into action, there's a part of him that knew he had plan B to fall back onto, and it's a real possibilty that he would. As it turns out, though, he ended up with a chance to continue executing plan A, which means more than simply kicking ass at PC now. It means...well, it means what we're all seeing now and him emerging on top of it all, like some kind of Genghis Khan of FS or something.

 

Which ties in to what you said to be his true goal. Underneath it all, lies this true goal* and with it, together with his experience in Sochi, he now knows it's not simply winning that second gold he wants, it's winning it the way he wants.  And in his head, it's not a 50-50 thing, like the rest of the world think it is (myself included). For him, it's a done deal and he's going to make it happen. No plan B this time.

 

Just...he may now allow himself a bit more wiggle room in how he wants to do it after this mishap. Whether or not he takes advantage of it, though, is still a complete mystery.

 

*Ultimately, I think his true goal is a much greedier one. Like, part of it was skating a program that blends difficult tech with artistry, which, as he matures, evolved into wanting complete mastery (which is what he really needs to achieve his goal of a complete program anyway) and when he achieves that, then he achieves the other part, which is to have all the gold come raining down upon him (he's shown that he possesses this shallow side to him, as well). Basically, the guy wants *everything*. And that, I feel, is his true goal.

I'm just saying but this narrative would make such a good D&D scenario...if DD was about Figure Skating. What kind of abomination is Yuzuru Hanyu anyway? He fits EVERYWHERE.

 

4 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

To first

To second- at first I thought it's that discussion in which Shizuka showed middle finger to Lutz haters acknowledged Yuzuru's mindset on 4Lz as a challenge, and not element required for winning, but no, it's another one, in which she says that he has so many ways of GOE gaining it's a bit terryfying (and also, that she cuts her hair short once every four years :D)

 

4 hours ago, PapiandPooh421 said:

Why do I have a feeling that once I've watched this, I'm gonna cry so hard!? 

You are not alone in that...

 

24 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

@PapiandPooh421 ok this we don't need google translate!

'Trying to fit figure skater into background is a challenge. (suck at it)'

Indeed, OP, indeed.

[Aotoshiro]

6 minutes ago, GreatLakesGal said:

Has anyone posted a link yet to Phil Hersh's article on Yuzu? I miss a lot of posts (can't keep up with you guys!) but I didn't see it in his News thread

Yes, it was posted, and the best thing that came out of this article was me discovering few reaaally good hidden talents at drama fic writing, maybe future/amateur playwriters.

 

[meoima]

4 hours ago, xeyra said:

It's been a while since I've done a tl;dr but here it goes:

 

I think this idea that he only needs 3 quads to win is a fallacy. Yes, if we look at Yuzu's best scores, his 330 achieved with 2+3 quads, with only the 'easy' 4T and 4S, still stands to this day. But how likely would Yuzu, with those same quads, be able to replicate the circumstances that would give him that so far unsurpassed 330? We look at Javi and Patrick and bless them, they're amazing, but they're also posterboys of how you need to be absolutely foot perfect in order to stay competitive with the higher BVs of other skaters who are also improving in GOEs and PCS. And how hard it is to be clean even with lower BV. 

 

Yuzu's greatest opponents right now aren't staying still either; they will be gaining momentum throughout the season and they're packing some BV ammunition. Shoma is very close to Yuzu's scores, closer than any other man right now, and his GOE/PCS potential is as great as Yuzu's. And unfortunately, there's also the factor of narratives surrounding perceived weakness in keeping up with the quad race as well as pressure to do so, especially from Japanese media and its quad obsession. 

 

Then we add the fact that going back to a 3-quad layout seems to be complete opposite to Yuzu's personality, bless his stubborn self. I feel like he's going to need at the very least 4 quads, with the 4Lo, with those 3 quads in the second half, in order to at least feel like he is challenging something even if he ends up not doing the 4Lz. My feeling is that Brian will be weary of the 4Lz and might caution Yuzu not to risk it. But it depends entirely on Yuzu, his feelings for the jump, its training and the weight of the ratio of risk/reward in using it in his layout, especially now he's been set back.

 

Yuzu's layout for Olympics and whether it can or cannot include 4Lz is dependent on three things right now: conditioning, competition practice and psychological issues.

 

Conditioning: His injury set him back on that. He needs 10 days rest then he's hoping to get back into competition shape in 3-4 weeks. But he won't be able to immediately start training quads at the beginning of his return to the ice, so exactly how much he'll make up for in terms of strength, stamina, conditioning, quad training and success rate we'll need to wait and see. However quick and successful his recovery goes, I am somewhat doubtful of him being ready for a 5-quad layout by Japan Nationals so I think he'll have to water it down for that competition. Also, my hope is that he is reigned in a bit (by himself or his team) because he's also been known to try to overtrain to make up for lost time. 

 

Competition experience: Yuzu himself said he needed to take every opportunity to test out the 4Lz, as the newest and more unstable jump in his layout this season, in competition. Unfortunately he has now lost his last opportunities to do so. The only competition I could see him using to test that jump out prior to the Olympics would be 4CC as his conditioning should be much better by then. Could we possibly see him there? If his name is assigned to that competition, then I feel like the 4Lz might return. 

 

Psychological issues: As Daisuke Takahashi said recently, there is also the factor of fear of injury again so close to the Olympics and how that'll affect his quad training. This is something he will have to deal with but I trust he'll get over it soon enough. 

 

Also, let's all remember that it wasn't the 4Lz's fault that Yuzu injured himself. It was bad luck it was on that particular jump but it could have been in any other quad.

 

 

GPF 2013, aside from Meryl/Charlie who were ice dancers thus ice dancers rarely bomb (like they almost never bomb), all GPF winners (Mao, Yuzuru, Aliona/Robin) bombed at the Olympic Sochi several months later. Only Yuzuru won as even though he bombed, Patrick bombed even worse. Mao ended up off podium  as other ladies all skated cleanly, Aliona/Bruno got bronze because there were other teams skated cleanly.

 

All the scores before Olympic are just illusion. It does not matter how many WR you have before the Olympic, even if you're inconsistent as hell, if you skate light-out at the Olympic and you're in the last group after the SP, the chance is that you will medal. Ask Adelina, she knows that very well. Or Carolina, if Olympic that year were not in Russia but any other European countries, Carolina might have won. Or a lesser degree, ask Sarah Hughes, or Shizuka (who were inconsistent the same).

 

Mao won everything in season 2013-2014 except the Olympic, she had the best momentum going into Sochi, and she fell badly right at the Olympic. So yes, momentum before Olympic is important, but it is not the decisive factor. Adelina placed 5th at GPF 2013, and she ended up winning Olympic. Yuna and Carolina were NOT at GPF 2013, they ended up skating cleanly at Olympic and won medals. Controversy aside, these 3 skaters were the one who either injured/WD or did badly in the first half of the season. But in the end, they ended up on the podium at the highest event. Plushy did not appear at GPF before both Olympic 2006 and Olympic 2010, and he did well in both. Denis Ten never got into GPF and yet he medaled at WC and Olympic. My conclusion is: The first half of the season can be thrown away out of the window. 

 

At the beginning of this season I was afraid if Yuzuru won GPF this time again, it would put too much pressure and attention on his shoulders. I had no doubt he had high chance of winning GPF again as it's his peaking pattern (he often peaked in December). The injury at NHK was unfortunate but at this moment I realize it is still a positive note from this. So, on a brighter side, Yuzuru accidentally escapes the hyping circle of both Japanese media and the International figure skating media. 

 

The current Yuzuru does not need more pressure and hype, he is no longer the Yuzuru in 2013 when he did not win any big event yet, the current Yuzuru has 12 WR, 4 GPF titles, 2 WC titles and 1 Olympic Gold and he will have more. He does not need to win GPF before Olympic to maintain his momentum. They will keep giving candies to everyone, so Yuzuru who already has all the highest scores he can get, he cannot do anything with what the judges are doing with others. What Yuzuru needs is a cool head, some silence to stay away from the hype and the media, to analyze what he wants and what he can do. 

 

If he wants to bring 4lz to the Olympic, that means his body is ready and he believes he can handle it. if he decides he will bring 4lo only, that means his body recovers to that point and he decides to go with what he has right now. Nevertheless, Olympic is where ALL THE HYPE, ALL THE PRESSURE WILL CRASH DOWN ON YOU the most. Only Yuzuru understands the effect of pressure on himself.

 

And Plushenko understands pressure too, he knew what it was with his first Olympic after all. Plushenko bombed his first Olympic as well as many other men. I think Plushenko did not joke when he said 4T and 4S were enough. But of course, Yuzuru will not do as Plushenko said. I don't rule out that Yuzuru will bring 4lz to Olympics. 

 

Anyway, a small note about Plushenko. It pains me to say this as I was his fan before. But I don't really believe in his honesty. I think when he gave interviews to NBC about Yuzuru's chance at the Olympics, he already knew he would come to Japan for an event with P&G and give compliments to Yuzuru. But honestly, I don't care. Plushenko's honesty does not matter to me anymore. As long as Yuzuru finds Plushenko's words as an inspiration and appreciate that, it's good. If Yuzuru finds it good, then I am happy for him. 

 

[meoima]

This video is about GOE isn't it? Thanks https://twitter.com/anipooh1/status/930705757766602752

[freeyafanfan]

11 minutes ago, meoima said:

This video is about GOE isn't it? Thanks https://twitter.com/anipooh1/status/930705757766602752

yes it talks about GOE at the start (hence the 4T-3T rippon video is shown), then talked a bit on yuzuru's injury, shizuka explained to them that it's hard to practice with injury on the right ankle etc, then a reminder that olys is close by and they think it'll be so great if yuzu and shoma can win the gold and silver for Japan at olys

[meoima]

6 minutes ago, freeyafanfan said:

yes it talks about GOE at the start (hence the 4T-3T rippon video is shown), then talked a bit on yuzuru's injury, shizuka explained to them that it's hard to practice with injury on the right ankle etc, then a reminder that olys is close by and they think it'll be so great if yuzu and shoma can win the gold and silver for Japan at olys

My friend said she said he would rest or so. Anyway I don’t think he will be reckless as it’s only 3 months away from the Olympics. 

[Forcefield]

2 hours ago, meoima said:

GPF 2013, aside from Meryl/Charlie who were ice dancers thus ice dancers rarely bomb (like they almost never bomb), all GPF winners (Mao, Yuzuru, Aliona/Robin) bombed at the Olympic Sochi several months later. Only Yuzuru won as even though he bombed, Patrick bombed even worse. Mao ended up off podium  as other ladies all skated cleanly, Aliona/Bruno got bronze because there were other teams skated cleanly.

 

All the scores before Olympic are just illusion. It does not matter how many WR you have before the Olympic, even if you're inconsistent as hell, if you skate light-out at the Olympic and you're in the last group after the SP, the chance is that you will medal. Ask Adelina, she knows that very well. Or Carolina, if Olympic that year were not in Russia but any other European countries, Carolina might have won. Or a lesser degree, ask Sarah Hughes, or Shizuka (who were inconsistent the same).

 

Mao won everything in season 2013-2014 except the Olympic, she had the best momentum going into Sochi, and she fell badly right at the Olympic. So yes, momentum before Olympic is important, but it is not the decisive factor. Adelina placed 5th at GPF 2013, and she ended up winning Olympic. Yuna and Carolina were NOT at GPF 2013, they ended up skating cleanly at Olympic and won medals. Controversy aside, these 3 skaters were the one who either injured/WD or did badly in the first half of the season. But in the end, they ended up on the podium at the highest event. Plushy did not appear at GPF before both Olympic 2006 and Olympic 2010, and he did well in both. Denis Ten never got into GPF and yet he medaled at WC and Olympic. My conclusion is: The first half of the season can be thrown away out of the window. 

 

At the beginning of this season I was afraid if Yuzuru won GPF this time again, it would put too much pressure and attention on his shoulders. I had no doubt he had high chance of winning GPF again as it's his peaking pattern (he often peaked in December). The injury at NHK was unfortunate but at this moment I realize it is still a positive note from this. So, on a brighter side, Yuzuru accidentally escapes the hyping circle of both Japanese media and the International figure skating media. 

 

The current Yuzuru does not need more pressure and hype, he is no longer the Yuzuru in 2013 when he did not win any big event yet, the current Yuzuru has 12 WR, 4 GPF titles, 2 WC titles and 1 Olympic Gold and he will have more. He does not need to win GPF before Olympic to maintain his momentum. They will keep giving candies to everyone, so Yuzuru who already has all the highest scores he can get, he cannot do anything with what the judges are doing with others. What Yuzuru needs is a cool head, some silence to stay away from the hype and the media, to analyze what he wants and what he can do. 

 

If he wants to bring 4lz to the Olympic, that means his body is ready and he believes he can handle it. if he decides he will bring 4lo only, that means his body recovers to that point and he decides to go with what he has right now. Nevertheless, Olympic is where ALL THE HYPE, ALL THE PRESSURE WILL CRASH DOWN ON YOU the most. Only Yuzuru understands the effect of pressure on himself.

 

And Plushenko understands pressure too, he knew what it was with his first Olympic after all. Plushenko bombed his first Olympic as well as many other men. I think Plushenko did not joke when he said 4T and 4S were enough. But of course, Yuzuru will not do as Plushenko said. I don't rule out that Yuzuru will bring 4lz to Olympics. 

 

Anyway, a small note about Plushenko. It pains me to say this as I was his fan before. But I don't really believe in his honesty. I think when he gave interviews to NBC about Yuzuru's chance at the Olympics, he already knew he would come to Japan for an event with P&G and give compliments to Yuzuru. But honestly, I don't care. Plushenko's honesty does not matter to me anymore. As long as Yuzuru finds Plushenko's words as an inspiration and appreciate that, it's good. If Yuzuru finds it good, then I am happy for him. 

 

 

 

I think it's so interesting in that there are so many different narratives to fit the situation at hand. To some people it may have already been decided last year already with the men's curse that the worlds winner won't win ogm unless you're dick button or smth, for some it's what yuzu did prior to sochi in that the person with the momentum from gpf will win ogm, for others its the youngsters with quads as higher bvs that will cushion lower pcs and splats. I don't know much about figure skating history so it's always interesting to read, thank you.

 

Also I also think Plushy is doing a lot of pr for himself in Japan (not so much for him in russia and their dark horse), but it's also pr for yuzu and maybe inspires him so well I'll take it.

[freeyafanfan]

15 minutes ago, meoima said:

My friend said she said he would rest or so. Anyway I don’t think he will be reckless as it’s only 3 months away from the Olympics. 

someone with better Japanese can correct this  what I got is basically shizuka said with the injury, she thinks it's a good thing that he took a rest (not competing at NHK), and that it's good not to rush into practice. After all, all of it is for the end goal which is the PC olys coming up shortly

[Mastyaeva]

Guys, look, thanks to @Fay's translation the fight with stereotypes continues 

 

 

[MrPudding]

 

[meoima]

1 hour ago, Forcefield said:

 

I think it's so interesting in that there are so many different narratives to fit the situation at hand. To some people it may have already been decided last year already with the men's curse that the worlds winner won't win ogm unless you're dick button or smth, for some it's what yuzu did prior to sochi in that the person with the momentum from gpf will win ogm, for others its the youngsters with quads as higher bvs that will cushion lower pcs and splats. I don't know much about figure skating history so it's always interesting to read, thank you.

 

Also I also think Plushy is doing a lot of pr for himself in Japan (not so much for him in russia and their dark horse), but it's also pr for yuzu and maybe inspires him so well I'll take it.

It is not about whether you won WC the year before Olympic or not, it is the human mentality. When you win the biggest events right before the Olympic, you suffer the hype and the expectation from the media and your whole country if you're the star. 

 

Usually, the reigning WCs or the GPF winners get a lot of hype before Olympic. Everyone expected them to do well at the Olympics, the attention can be over the top. In my opinion, that kind of attention and hype were not ideal.

 

Evan was the reigning WC and GPF was an exception as the risk of a high BV layout plays a huge part as well. Evan did not jump quad at Vancouver, so the chance to mess up was very low. So overall the hype and attention on Evan were low... overall the less hype the better. 

 

Attention and hype can be a double-edged sword. Too much pressure is very harmful. Yuzuru clearly felt that at Boston. And the Russian commentators at GPF 2015 nailed it so well, the God mentality (the pressure to repeat WR) is not easy to handle. People praised Yuna for her Vancouver performance, but not many people remember how she bombed totally at WC 2010 one month after that. People praised Yuna for skating clean at WS 2013 and Sochi (tight landings whatever) but in my opinion, avoiding GP was one of the reasons. At Sochi, even though under pressure as the reigning WC and Olympic champion, Yuna did not bear the highest expectation. She came back from injury so people who bet on her were not overwhelming, and Mao won all the events before that, so it somewhat calmed Yuna down too.

 

I think as Yuzuru does not have to suffer the hype of GP series anymore, he will have more time to calm his mentality down and analyze what should be analyzed. Yes they will still pay attention to him as the reigning WC and Olympic Champion, but less hype from GP series is still somehow useful. Yuzuru will be fine. 

[Forcefield]

1 hour ago, meoima said:

It is not about whether you won WC the year before Olympic or not, it is the human mentality. When you win the biggest events right before the Olympic, you suffer the hype and the expectation from the media and your whole country if you're the star. 

 

Usually, the reigning WCs or the GPF winners get a lot of hype before Olympic. Everyone expected them to do well at the Olympics, the attention can be over the top. In my opinion, that kind of attention and hype were not ideal.

 

Evan was the reigning WC and GPF was an exception as the risk of a high BV layout plays a huge part as well. Evan did not jump quad at Vancouver, so the chance to mess up was very low. So overall the hype and attention on Evan were low... overall the less hype the better. 

 

Attention and hype can be a double-edged sword. Too much pressure is very harmful. Yuzuru clearly felt that at Boston. And the Russian commentators at GPF 2015 nailed it so well, the God mentality (the pressure to repeat WR) is not easy to handle. People praised Yuna for her Vancouver performance, but not many people remember how she bombed totally at WC 2010 one month after that. People praised Yuna for skating clean at WS 2013 and Sochi (tight landings whatever) but in my opinion, avoiding GP was one of the reasons. At Sochi, even though under pressure as the reigning WC and Olympic champion, Yuna did not bear the highest expectation. She came back from injury so people who bet on her were not overwhelming, and Mao won all the events before that, so it somewhat calmed Yuna down too.

 

I think as Yuzuru does not have to suffer the hype of GP series anymore, he will have more time to calm his mentality down and analyze what should be analyzed. Yes they will still pay attention to him as the reigning WC and Olympic Champion, but less hype from GP series is still somehow useful. Yuzuru will be fine. 

 

 

Yep, I agree. Just saying people will discuss many things using past examples to predict on whether Yuzu will get or lose ogm in PC, and tbh I get some relief knowing how differently things can go, but well at the end if the day it all depends on Yuzu and the skaters (as well as the judges).