EisElle

It's true Shoma right now is the most "complete" among the young guns, but while he can land consistenly his jumps, the jumping quality isn't the best not only compared to Yuzuru but to the others top six too. So while Shoma can still get huge TES and huge PCS, at the moment in a fair world a perfect Yuzuru would beat a perfect Shoma. Of course if Yuzuru makes any mistake he opens the door, but he opens it to pretty much to everyone in the top six, depending on how they perform on the day. Indeed in the past he's done exactly that and he's been beaten by Patrick, Javi and Nathan too. So any of the top six (or other upcoming quadsters?) can beat a not-perfect Yuzu but perfect Yuzuru is still better than any other perfect one (again, in a fair world), because he is not just a "good" jumper, he is a great jumper, not a good spinner but a great one, with great skating skills and great musicality, and he is a great performer and a great interpreter etc and right now no one else is that great at everything like he is. Also I'd like to add one more thought about comparing the first senior seasons of Yuzuru and Shoma: back then (quad between Vancouver and Sochi) Japan men's field was way deeper than what it has been the last couple of years. There were a lot of experienced skaters that were all competing at the top on the world stage, there were world and olympic medalists, there were Daisuke and Kozuka and Oda and then Machida and Nationals were a real bloodbath (just like it's going Ladies Jpn Nationals this year), so nobody (meaning JSF and judges) cared about a little mushroom that came from Sendai until he didn't forced them to notice him. Yuzuru had to work really hard to get smallish GOEs and PCS in an era when judges were stingy even on +2s and the only skater that could consistently go above 90 PCS (but not that much higher either) was Patrick Chan. And Yuzuru was already doing spread eagle-3A when he was 16-17 years old, but has never got +3 for that (the next season he ditched the spread eagle entry to his solo 3A because it was too easy ... ). And we can't forget either that, those first two years in senior, training facilities and training hours were a big big big BIG issue for Yuzuru, even before the earthquake happened. Sendai wasn't Nagoya or Osaka. Argh I wanted to comment on something I read in the previous page but I don't remember what it was anymore...I got distracted this thread is always so fast And I should really be sleeping now Don't forget to take as many photos as possible (and then of course to share them with the rest of us) A photo of the banner too pls (but MORE photos of our Overlord Zuzu )

I would agree with you on pretty much everything, if it weren't that in other skaters' wiki, as you said, there are similar "notable achievements" that, while unnecessary, can still give a "wow" impression to a casual viewer (I know I would have been impressed, a year ago). So I'd say for the sake of impartiality to leave it as it is, for olympic season I mean, I find this info in Shoma's wiki a bit unnecessary too or this "attempt" in Nathan's wiki and maybe this too for Boyang Also, why poor Patrick's wiki is only updated decently till 2013-2014? And no 2016-2017 season at all? He deserves more love

I'm pretty cool with people who just don't "like" Yuzu's skating, because I myself have my favourites and most of the time it is only really a question of "feeling" more than something that can be rationally explained. I am less cool when they criticize his skating telling lies (I talk about those from whom one would expect a bit of technical knowledge, not the ones who have only read something but can't know by themselves). What really I can't stand are personal attacks to Yuzuru's character, like implying that he is arrogant or pampered or that he just pretends to act nice for PR reasons but is in reality an awful person (as if anyone could have the energy for acting all the time under the constant scrutiny of thousand of people and cameras!). Yuzuru has never hid his flaws, he's actually always admitted them openly, which is way more than most people can do. For the same reason it annoys me a lot when people instead of replying to the content of a post start sending jabs to the poster. This is pretty much why I abandoned my long-lasting lurking habits and registered to that place too. Actually I think a lot of people delurked because of that video, what was happening was just too unfair to keep quiet. I was still in the phase of reading the fanfest and sometimes some competitions threads and I had already stumbled upon a most enlightening argument about half loops (that's when I started paying attention to who posted what) so I had an inkling of how some posters could behave, but what happened in the video thread was just so saddening and so crazy that it's likely I wouldn't have believed it if I had not been there following the whole thing from the start. So I knew exaclty who was lying and why some people had got angry. Some posts were merely nonsensical, others condescending, others outright nasty. It made me feel very sorry for all those who had done that wonderful work, because they saw their efforts and the feelings behind their efforts so disparaged. So I felt the need to give my support thanking them and maybe make *SomePeopleUpThere* realize they had majorly screwed up in how they had handled things. But in the end it all turned out so well I would even say thank you to *PeopleUpThere* in the *other place*, because now we have this wonderful Planet Hanyu with wonderful satellites. (and all the wonderful Yuzu emojis LOL) I would have never thought I would be posting more than 100 posts in my whole life, and here I am, almost to 300 and with a lot of useful additional knowledge spanning from FS to music to languages to dance to cooking etc etc etc I would have also never imagined I would be plannig to follow some live stream of a minor competition between 2 and 5 a.m. Right in the middle of the night I don't know if I should just go to bed with the chickens and get up at 2, or hold on the whole night till 5 am then go to sleep...but likely I won't be able to sleep after it, and I don't know if I'll be able to sleep before either AHHHHHHHHHH maybe Yuzu is evil after all, look what he does to his fans

I think his main problem with SC exactly that, plus people forgetting he is human and usually he's not on top form that early in the season. I remember Brian telling Yuzu (if I'm not mistaken after 2015 SC FS) "Just a bit more of conditioning". So Yuzuru gave judges excuses to pull him down (which they eagerly did. Let's say he's never got the privilege of leniency in SC) And who knows, maybe actually it was a strategy to make Demon!Yuzu come out and play

apparently ISU isn't the only one with a convoluted logic Good, my love for chocolate and my love for Yuzu are reconciled Just in time for ACI, I gotta buy tons a few bars of chocolate to keep the anxiety in check Well, he said that if he kept skating he'd like to try new types of music

LOL @Murieleirum I'd never thought I'd found someone who knows pizzica on a FS international forum I would be shocked if anyone would ever use it in FS, though. It seems pretty untranslatable for people using boots, but you never know ^^ I'd like to see Yuzu do a tango once, just for fun, to see how he can pull it off Maybe we would have a revelation LGC-style wouldn't that be glorious I might end up in the hell for unfaithful fans for telling this, but I'm in the bitter chocolate team, and if I have to eat milk chocolate at least not the extra sweet one (hate when chocolate tastes like sugar... e.g. I can't stand Kinder surprise* chocolate) sorry Yuzu, I'm not going to buy that stuff, even if you like it *I wasn't sure kinder surpise was that known abroad so I googled it and I found out it's banned in the USA Another collateral piece of knowledge I got from becaming a Yuzu fan

If I may add my 2 cents, yesterday I watched Shoma's FS from Lombardia first, then I went back to watch his 2015 GPF FS to different music cut from Turandot and then the Lombardia FS again. I did that comparison because I remembered his "old" Turandot was the 2nd program I'd seen of Shoma and his musicality had indeed impressed me (cantilever being the definite highligh), and I did saw a difference in his interpretation/performance, meaning I found his old Turandot better. Not expecting of course that Shoma could be as good at his new cut and layout as at that one he'd skated for half a season, but I think for a start the old music cut was better at using a certain sharpness in Shoma's arm movements that while well fitting to pieces as Loco I don't quite like for other musics, but still worked quite well for 2015-2016 Turandot imho. I think they have also put a longer section of Nessun Dorma this year that kind of douses the dramatic crescendo, and I also feel that the signature movement of the choreo sequence (the cantilever) has been hammered a lot. I actually played them side by side (old Turandot had it on the strong male solo "Vincerò" and was very impressive, the new one is on chorus and IMO is feels a bit understated) and while Shoma held them for the same duration (which surprised me because the old Turandot one felt like going on forever), in his 2015 GPF he had much much more speed so he covered much more ice, it was a beauty. I think in Loco the cantilever better highlighted the music, too (or was better highlighted by the music, if you prefer), so for now I'm not fond at all of that section of the program from before cantilever to end. Overall I enjoyed more the SP than the FS. In Winter the spins (the last two in particular) are very well fitted, while I think in his FS they looked kind of bland (for his standard). Of course Shoma still deserved high scores for his FS. If you do your tech well or with only minor (or not that glaring) mistakes and the BV is huge there's only so much you can lose in GOEs, but as for PCS the scores were too generous, maybe not much skating skills, (two-footed skaing aside, he does skate with deep edges). IMHO way too generous TR and IN, but I'd say PE too if we compare with what he's showed last year. Now, I certainly expect a big improvement in IN and PE, not so much in transitions, even less if Shoma will go for an even harder layout. Whops I ended writing another too long post sorry

You're almost as evil as our Evil Overlord

I love the new theme! It's so...engaging Ugh, now I'm starting feeling nervous... where is my zen attitude? I had it till five minutes ago, I want my zen back

I feel the same. Everytime I read about things like CoC or Worlds 2013 or Boston I want to just grab Yuzu and give him a good shake. And the way he talks about that, as if going through that ordeal wasn't such a big deal, leaves an even deeper impression. I guess every top athlete must have a similar mindset. But, while I admire Yuzuru's strong will, pain is the way the body screams for help, so he shouldn't have tried to just shut it out or merely endure it (like he did during 2015-2016 season). Hopefully he's now past that, but he had to learn it the hard way and that's why now I believe him when he talks about taking care of his body. And he played the good boy at WTT gala and even during FaoI I always think how strong his mom must be to let him do things like that CoC free skate. Watching someone you love fight like that and risk hurting himself even more requires a lot of braveness. his mother knows him well and understands which battles Yuzuru needs to fight. that was more like a storm of poohs (poor flower girls) Though I wonder how much culture influences views on pain and whether someone's enduring it is seen as a truly admirable quality. For instance I think in my country the logic of endurance is way less exhalted (which isn't always all that good either...)

I can't I'm so dead How can he be so cuuuute wailing? And I even replayed it...again...and again...and againGosh I need to get some serious sleep

This one is more realistic: Yuzuru does his "jumping on the podium" thing in PyeongChang but slips and falls on his face, becoming the ultimate meme.

Even better, Yuzu will jump 4A as the last jumping pass in his FS at Olys. But the tech panel doesn't believe 4A is real, so they just count it as an underrotated 5T. But 5T has no BV, so the jump is invalidated. Plushenko shows up at olys and lands a 4Lz-4T-4Lo combo taking the lead by storm. The other men withdraw from shame and the russian legend takes the gold. In search of new challenges, Evgenia Medvedeva competes in the Men's event in PyeongChang and tanoes her way to the podium. Ice Dance FD in Milan turns into the worst splatfest ever. Later people find out Didier Gailhaguet from the French Fed helped to organize the event. At the event all the medalists receive virtual medals via twitter, because the Italian Fed forgot to prepare the real ones. Yuzuru doesn't have twitter so he is left sulking in a corner.

Lucky me, my hairdresser always says I have lots of hairs I am. Almost (cit.)

I find the range of GOEs way too high. It's unsettling how much more power the judges would have like this.They can eat half of the BV of a jump, or award half BV more, which is huge, even with all the PCS question out of the picture. Now, assuming that a fall gets mandatory -5 GOE in analogy with current rules, which I think is quite possible, we would have a 4T with fall barely worth more than a merely average 3T with 0 GOE (only BV). Which to me is quite odd. would be And it doesn't feel right that a 4T or 4S with fall would be worth less than a the BV of a 3Lo, or 4Lo with fall less than the BV of a 3F, and a 4Lz with fall less than an unremarkable 3Lz with 0 GOE, too. And it's ridiculous that a 4A attempt with fall would be worth 1.75 points less than a 3A with 0 GOE and even slightly less than a perfect +5 GOE 3T. Just.what.the.heck! And if falls mean mandatory -5, I hope the further 1 point deduction will be removed, because that would mean a 4T with fall would get a ridiculous 3.75 against an unremarkable but landed 3T with BV 4.20, which would be entirely laughable. I myself am in for some overlapping between a very bad quad and a very good triple, but this is too much! A bad quad shouldn't be comparable to a landed but unremarkable triple. This isn't "rewarding quality" at all. IMHO this new system is much more focused on punishing mistakes than really encouraging quality, and wouldn't encourage skaters to challenge themselves (unless they do that just for the sake of glory). Which is a loss, because pushing the athletes to go further and further is what a sport shoud do, what sport is. But of course, for all of those people who want FS competitions to turn into endless squabbles about "artistry", I guess it's fine. I definitely don't see anymore 4-5 quads programs (at least until judges won't start throwing away +5 on quads, which I think would take some time). The risk of messing something big time would be very very high, so most skaters would go back to more affordable triples (if judges would be willing to award max positive GOE on triples is another question mark though) because they can dream consitency on quads. Till now it was a worhty risk to go for a quad and fall, as long as they got the rotations. But if the quad BV is so brutally chopped, then I expect Men's skating to go back to pre-Sochi, if not pre-Vancouver. TBH I don't think the audience ISU wants to bring in so badly with the supposed "high quality" thing would be that much thrilled about that. And just when finally it looked something more exciting could happen to ladies'event, ISU quashes everything, damn Also, if ISU's concern is protecting the skaters' health, maybe it should make sure current rules are applied tbw. Just start promoting proper jumping technique, which usually results in good take-offs and nice landings that stress less the body. And maybe don't reward bad jumps in spite of your own rules. And don't throw away pcs just because. Rai sport commentaries often make me wince because when there are the two ladies together they sometimes let out high pitched screams that make my ears hurt, and they aren't really as knowledgeble as they should be (Bianconi in particular, she shuld knew a lot of about tech, SS and TR but never gives any detail). Their comments are usually so very generic. Yes, Yuzuru being good at doing everything is what first "broke" the system. But the real break (that now ISU so desperately wants to fix messing things up) happened when in the attempt to keep other skaters in the race suddenly judges started being a tad too generous with everyone else to even out things...or maybe judges just got a taste of how good it feels giving +3 GOE and high PCS and became addicted. I could argue that even if now Yuzuru is way better than before, he had already very good ss back then, when he started getting 9s, and his programs had a lot of transitions, and choreo was good too (Buttle and Wilson had make sure it was good, after all. IN and PE are a different question, if we talk about the FS). PCS are somehow comparative, so if judges were already giving e.g more than 8.5 to skaters that did less TR and were way slower on the ice, then it was about right that in comparison Yuzu got 9. I could also argue that even in Sochi judges hadn't still dropped Patrick at all, as for his flawless short Yuzuru still got less PCS than Patrick's not so flawed one (step out on 3A). Mind you, it was that legendary WR Parisienne Walkways, after a string of clean shorts and yes I might be slightly salty for that. And I might also point out it took Yuzu that perfect Chopin 2.0 in Barcelona to finally break past Patrick's PCS. Overall I don't think Yuzuru has ever been that much over-rewarded if we compare his scores to those of others. tbh I find he's more often than not under-rewarded in TR, at least. I agree, the system may have some flaws, but they could be worked out. The problem is how the system is used or rather misused, but that's sadly an old problem that ISU doesn't want or lacks the resources to address.

Wow that is...surprising. I guess they really want to go there. I guess it could be doable to diversify SP and FS a bit more. But IMHO more than do something as drastic as a so called "artistic" program with less difficult elements (how many? and what is a difficult element? levels on spins too? on steps? requirements for GOEs should get easier as well?), it would be way easier to just tweak a little with the technical requirements for the current FS e.g. maybe removing one more jumping pass while leaving the full duration at 4.0 minutes, so skaters don't have to pack their programs with "big technical elements" and can save time and energy for whatever "artistry" is. But I wouldn't like PCS to take over TES in factoring, for example as that proposal from BianchettiSr. to make TES/PCS as 40/60. If you want balance than you give the chance to show everyone the "artistry", but you cannot forget that technical elements can be integral part of "art" when they are done with quality (which is still evalued in TES). And skating skills and transitions are heavily linked to technique anyway, so should we have different multipliers for the less "artistic" components too? I don't think so. TES and PCS already overlap in a way, so let's just try to stick to 50/50. Given how consistently PCS are misused, I think is safer not go too much the subjective way (or at least not more than it is already). And i still think the easiest way to keep 50/50 is just change PCS multipliers. For ladies and pairs PCS are already capped below 100 (or 50 in SP) to keep that supposed balance, so multipliers have been fine all this time. I don't really see why change those multiplier should be suddenly that hard or that scandalous now. There would not even be any need to get convoluted change of BV and range of GOE and give everyone headaches. And of course the main problem is always that of the human element. So if ISU doesn't do anything to address that a tad more seriously all the talk about tech and artistry is BS, because everything will still go down to bias and corruption and ineptitude. (which now are not the proverbial elephant in the room anymore, but the elephant in the car kinda crushing the driver and the passengers alike, sorry for the bad joke) Also, funny that Lakernik talks about making things simpler. I guess that means that a) he's contradicting himself about shortening competitions (if the technical one gets to be like the actual FS, and the artistic one too), or 2) we are going to have two short programs. If so, good luck with highlighing "artistry" better (unless they just want a single jumping pass...ugh). LOL at the "maybe overall winners". Certainly not the strategy of someone who wants well-rounded skaters. Also, that a sport should change that much just to abide to the audience's necessities isn't that "normal" to me. True, you need paying public to gain money, but for decades public survived just fine with those looooong competitions. BTW the length of competitions isn't the reason why people dropped/can't get into FS, but i guess ISU doesn't think so. Also no one has ever thought to make marahtons shorter so the audience doesn't get bored, or to stop a tennis match just because people had enough. Just what the... This is actually a good point. But even more important, there is need for more competent commentators that actually know what they are seeing and not just screaming/fangirling/talking nonsense all the time . If they have to talk they should at least say something useful for the average audience. I don't need them to tell me someone is delightful to watch and someone else has an ugly costume, that I can see myself, thank you very much. Tell me why this or that can score this or that, or why something is difficult or not. Key word: should.

How considerate of them Poor 4Lo, I feel it doesn't receive enough love. The current quad BV are based on those of triples, but a lot of commentators/knovledgeble people stress that edge quadruples are hard because of the absence of toe pick, so tbh it feels very strange to make the difference between 4Lo and 4F larger than it already is (as we know people still can prerotate toe pick jumps, so saying 4Lo is only a 3.5 jump, hence it's easier than 4F that has less prerotation, is totally BS. There have been 3.5 Fips credited as full 4F, too. Tech and judging panels' fault of course. Why would a 4Lo still be that much easier than 4F?). Before you crush that poor Loop BV at least make sure the scale of value is right for quadruples. Now they have two-three guys or more doing each type of quad (4A aside,of course), can’t they do some of those "computerized bio-mechanical studies" as they did for doubles or that dynamic study they made for 2A and 3A? Just to see what is the real effort different quadruples require comparatively. And poor Axel too. It's such a unique jump, way way different from the others in technique and I’d say even more challenging mentally too, so that drastic cut in BV for both 3A and 4A is really silly. I suppose ISU may not want skaters to try and kill themself attempting 4A...sure, I so believe that. Maybe in analogy to what happens now? iirc currently the factor for GOE is related to the first jump, ie for quad or 3A combos the multiplier is 1.0. Idk if it will be the same for combos in the new system though.

thank you @gladi for bringing us Tracy's interview You are spoiling us I'm really enjoying reading all these interviews from Yuzu and his team, it feels like putting together the pieces of a puzzle. And what a heartwarming picture we get... and very soothing, too, after all that ISU craziness I'll keep it brief this time. @gladi I totally subscribe to your comment here Now IMO his hunger is what sets him apart from everyone else. It's a hunger which is also strenghtned by his sense of responsability and his gratitude, I think. Yuzuru wants to win, and be better, but he also wants to gift something more to the sport and the fans. He takes pride in his role. He's never stopped improving, he's never stopped evolving, he goes on pursuing his ideals even if he makes things harder for himself. But, because he has that hunger, he is the one still owning the scene in an era of huge technical development. And despite what someone may say, he is the highest embodiment of that fusion of art and technique that everyone keep saying they want in FS and that ends merrily disregarded when it cames to properly rewarding and encouraging it. Yes, ISU and ISU judges, I'm looking at you again! Yuzuru broke the COP system because in his personal quest for evolution he happened to show that the highest tech quality can be matched by the highest "artistry" (if we want to call like that all that is not purely tech). He left the others playing catch up while he still moves forward. Lovely comparison Go Tracy!!! And last but not least, my favourite quote Just

Nope. He's even spreading his trolling habits to his coaches... well, we only need to hang on till ACI

Deepest thanks @gladi for bringing us Brian's epic poem interview! You always do such an amazing job, I have no words (cit) (guys we really need a +5GOE emoticon, just saying) Oh wow, that was one long read, so many things I want to say! The overall impression I get is of warmth, assurance and genuine pride. It’s reassuring Yuzuru can train in such a good environment and receive the best support. Now, as the interview was a behemoth, it's only fair my comment is going to be a bit of a behemoth too sorrynotsorry I agree Yuzu’s win was good for both him and Javi. Yuzu needed that result as the proof his efforts would be repaid (and I’d say the way he got that result was even more decisive), while Javi can now find himself as a chaser again, which worked better for him till now. To me this sounds as if the layout is still very fluid and likely they will adapt it as the season proceeds and some issues are answered (like Yuzu’s ability to raise consistency, other skaters’ plans and IMHO also that big question mark which is judging). Strategically it makes a lot of sense not to show all of your cards from the start. Though it makes me a bit more apphrensive. LOL at Brian forgetting poor Patrick (but then again, Patrick often happens to forget Yuzuru, so that's fair LOL). Though I would put Javi a little lower in the SS scale, tbh. But true, the uncles lead the pack (poor Yuzu, he's regarded as an uncle already even if he's barely reaching his prime as a skater, just because he happened to make a splash way younger than the others). If only... Brian is doing some healthy PR-ing here (for Javi too), which is good. Better remind them that everything Yuzuru does is max GOE material (I'm looking at you, judges! How I wish they could read this interview). Also, And best spinner... yeah, Brian is definitely doing some good promoting, and Yuzu deserves all of that. Honestly it's a bit sad one has to remind people that Yuzuru is THE all-round skater. He is not only good at everything, he is the top in everything. He can have some company in this or that one category but...yeah, he is the best. I think this is the best one can wish to his athletes. Of course the choice of double repeat is going to be questioned a lot and Yuzuru is going to be scrutinized even more because of it (that’s why it is actually quite gutsy imho), I’m glad all of his team is backing him up firmly. Ah Ah, that’s right, they should feel honoured. Don’t worry, already happened to me They’re certainly not-warhorse and very distinctive. There is no one else that could skate to those two programs but Yuzuru. It looks like once again past issues were a push for getting stronger. Glad now Yuzuru feels at ease at sharing his views and giving and requesting feedback. yes please, don't let Yuzuru get too much super-focused. And, Javi, drag him to your next spanish dinner, please. LOL Yuzu looking at the plaque. Am I the only one who finds this adorable?

I want that badge I'm pretty sure I can get it I second that

Can we have also the ESP ITA (with subs) commentary of Worlds EX? pretty please Max and Angelo talk before and after Yuzu's skate and they say moving things, I really melt everytime I replay it #realYuzufanboys As for Worlds LP commentary, I like most of them, from the french ones to the BBC one to the CBC, even NBC is quite nice...for something more "exotic" I think the Norvegian, the Swedish, the Swiss (french), the German ESP and the Hungarian M4 (all have eng sub) are quite good too. The Finnish one has also a couple nice interviews and comments before and after Yuzu's free skate. (Yes, I've just looped all of them) (offtopic moment: why did so many commentators wanted to see Yuzu to cry? LOL ) Question: are we going to have Worlds victory ceremony too? And the WTT SP?

Bringing this here from the general thread because lately I tend to be a little obsessed about jumps and such (Yuzu what are you doing to me? ) @micaelis I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but did you mean it as in "Yuzu wouldn't like to compare his jumps to theirs" or rather "they have already those jumps, he wants to try something harder/new"? If it's the second, even if Yuzuru likes being extra, he is also aware of what he needs to win and how to take it, so IMHO he would be willing to sacrifice the "wow factor" to something effective and that could suit him. He's always been more of a "slow builder" in his strategy, as he chose to increase steadily his BV over many years instead of leaping from 0 to 100, because he values quality and his "quality" is way more than just go and land the most difficult jump out there or jump a lot of difficult jumps and who cares for all the rest. So if he thinks 4Lz or even 4F is what he needs, he would use it (he is after all the guy who put 4T3T as his combo in the SP, despite 4T being regarded now as the easy quad). If it's the first, allow me to disagree. I don't think it fits with Yuzuru's frame of mind retreating from a challenge. IIRC he's been toying with 4Lz since after Sochi, but he probably started training it more seriously last season. Sure, Boyang has a monster of a 4Lz, but Yuzu's 3Lz is strong (so much he chose to put it at the very end of the program, when he's more tired, which means he has that kind of confidence in it) and the footage of his 4Lz showed a jump with short preparation, beautiful air position and a lot of height. As for the 4F, Shoma doing it has nothing to do with Yuzu's lack of enthusiasm for it (also, I wouldn't take Shoma's as the epitome of 4F. True, it's the jump that jpn tv boasted a lot, but tbh Shoma has way better jumps than his 4F, and there are better 4F than his). The reason Yuzuru isn't thrilled/doesn't care to train 4F is its inside edge take off. Point wise 4F is very close to the 4Lo, but for Yuzuru it has higher risks than 4Lo. He wants full GOEs on all his jumps and for him 4F is unlikely to get them, because he could risk edge calls. Judges don't even appreciate that much his correct edge 3F, despite it being melted into the choreo... I think 4Lz is the only jump Yuzuru is actually considering to add, because it has much higher BV than the others (4A aside) and he likes a lot the outside edge take off. In a 4 or 5 quad layout with both 4Lz and a 4F, he should replace one of his way more trusted 4T or 4S, with limited reward in terms of BV+GOE and higher risks (fall, edge call, less transition in and out for a new jump...). 4A has higher BV and wow factor but it's harder and more dangerous, so I don't think Yuzuru would really train it to put it into a program, when his aim is being healthy and raising the average through consistency and high quality. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see Yuzuru's 4Lz and I think it's unlikely to see a 4A during Oly season (you want to stay healthy, Yuzu, don't you?), but a 4F would shock me (but Yuzuru is an alien, so what can I know...). (If I haven't undersood a thing of what you meant, ignore me) I don't know how much you know about the ISU rules, I myself was pretty much ignorant till a few months ago From what I've learned you can't have 3A as the second jump in combo because the rules state that the second jump has to take off from the same edge of the landing of the first jump, so back edge. Your second (or third) jump has to be a T, Lo, S o F, while Axel takes off from forward edge. If you put the Axel after another jump you have a "sequence", not a combo. Sequences of two jumps have a total BV which is lower than the sum of BV(1)+BV(2), (don't ask me why, these are the rules). So even if Yuzu can do beautiful sequences with 3As we won't see them in competition But 3A-quadruple combos are possible, I guess. 4-4 combo would be very hard to do and for now with little benefit IMHO (glory aside). I hope not

I love that WTT 4Lz, blotched landing notwhistanding And I love the speculation, Yuzu likes to make his fans' heads spin Why do I feel his coaches and former coaches boarded the "let's troll the fans" train? TBH Brian mentioning 4A is pretty shocking, but who knows what has been lost in translation. Yuzu tested 4A for what? to land it? to stabilize it? to put it in a program?). We also know jpn press likes a lot these talks about 4As and quints (blame Zuzu the Trendstter). @micaelisI wanted to make a couple of considerations about your long post (I love long posts) but I'm going to talk a bit about jumps and rules so I thought the general skating thread was more suitable for my post. I hope it doesn't bothers you. I leave here just this funny little fact: As we all know Dick Button was also the last man to win two OGMs and the first to land a ratified 3Lo

Yes I think that was it! (I must have muddled a bit all those interviews specials etc etc etc eheh) thank you!