EisElle

Well, I hope Zhenya had the chance to speak, if anything because she's made the trip But if she couldn't, it would have been only a formality anyway, more for the sake of PR, and it wouldn't have changed the final decision. That the use of the name "Russia" will be allowed, imo it's the best we could hope. Now it's hard to blame IOC, were Zhenya and the others to choose not to be in PyeongChang. I'd say the IOC decision might be considered "conciliatory", and I'm not even sure that for a less powerful country IOC would be that conciliatory. So imo a total boycott now it's harder to support, even for Russian government. And it's harder to paint as "traitors" the athletes who wish to compete. But I live in a country where national pride isn't that big (except when soccer-related...or when we have to blame european institutions for everyrhing wrong. Then it suddenly becomes "us" against "them") and I've never been that patriotic myself, so maybe people in Russia would agree, were their leaders to call IOC's decision as an outrage to their country, thus calling for a boycott, while to me it would sound quite unreasonable so I'd just think "screw them" and i'd totally support my compatriots going to olys ETA: so Zhenya did make her speech. I'm so impressed by her poise And they agreed to make them compete under "Russia", so her wish to be there as a team could be fulfilled Dare we hope

So we got what we were expecting...now it's on the athletes (or the government). I'm sad to hear Med said she wouldn't go. I hope she can change her idea Honestly, I can't say IOC is wrong, and they will even allow athletes to still compete as Russian people. imo they are trying to make it clear that russians institutions are those getting the punishment, not the clean athletes themselves. So, if I were an athlete, competing would still mean to have a chance to display my hard work in front of the world and feel pride in being Russian. ETA under these circumstances, now I'd disagree more strongly with a boycott from Russia or Russian athletes. It's still their choice to make, of course, but imo IOC gave them a more than reasonable way out.

I can't believe that until it happens. Just the thought of no Zhenya, no T/M or S/K what a mess. I haven't followed the whole debate nor I know in detail what's happened till now (I only learned that Adelina was cleared and till now no figure skater has been disqualified), so feel free to correct me if I'm making wrong assumptions about the whole doping scandal. It feels so wrong for all of those people who had nothing to do with doping (and I mean the athletes, but also Russian people. Our fellow Russian satellites) . But I understand that IOC would need to send a message, that such behaviour will end in the punishment of the whole country, so to force countries to actively fight doping instead of being compacent or promoting it. So from that point of view it would be understandable, I'd even agree, because IOC needs to have some credibility and Russian authorities not being very cooperative is a clear challenge. To allow athletes to compete under neutral flag, even if sad for the athletes, would be a punishment but also an attempt to let sport and olympic spirit win. But they might not even let the athletes decide by themselves if they still want to compete. So apparently the only way left to see russian skaters at Olys would be if IOC does as for Rio, which isn't likely, given how winter sports were heavily involved in the scandal and now IOC knows more about what's happened. and how it's happened. So allowing skaters to compete under neutral flag looks already as the milder option on the table Tbh I don't think suggesting boycott of olys will do any good in swaying IOC to be softer. But I am so sad. This season can still get worse than it is

About Patrick, I'm feeling quite torn, because it would be really sad if he were to retire with the memory of that bad skate as his last competition. I want to see him come back and redeem himself. He gave so much to the sport and inspired Yuzuru. tbh I'd be grateful to Patrick even for that alone. He was the first to push for the quad(s) while balancing the TES with pcs... his skating skills are akwnoledged as the best (tho lately he hasn't been awarded properly for them), but I understand than now he must be feeling a bit like a relic from a different era and it must be awful to force yourself to compete if you've lost the taste for that. I don't want Patrick to feel the burden of having to compete for anyone or anything else but himself. But still, I would be really sad if he won't be in PyeongChang. C'mon, Patrick, do it for yourself! You came back one year after Sochi to steal Yuzu's Canadian gold twice, you can't surrender now! Skate with only one quad, if you have to, but say your goodbye to competitive skating on the biggest stage possible! (I'm spamming fight!Yuzu in a lot of threads of late... so many skaters in need of a fierceZuzu's support...)

Mmm my prediciton for juniors are mostly based on who I'd like to see on podium And I'm betting against Sasha about her 4S, so maybe we'll finally see a beautiful fully rotated 4S instead this is my reverse-jinxing in action (and it's quite likely a clean 4S would put her on top of the podium...so that would go against my podium prediction. My predictions have to be choerent. Choerence is everything ). For men, I don't care about the GP standings or number of quads I'm going for those whose SP I like, or something like that. And quadless Mitsuki on podium, please And I expect the battle for ladies to be tighter score-wise.

ok I can see the Poohs all right with another browser...also, I realized I've placed my pooh a few miles from where I am... I should have zoomed morenot that it changes anything on a world scale And wow, all those Poohs

I can't see the Poohs either.

I worry everytime I see someone fall (this season is killing me, even hands down now scare me). I just hope Jun Hwan won't hurt himself, again. so true... jr men aren't exactly the most exciting thing these days...

bb Nathan (with proper costume) so cuuuuuuuuute yes please, bring real costumes back!!!! (wishing he'll get some inspiration from Adam and Jason, Please guys, corrupt your teammate, or at least whoever is in charge of his costumes)

Seriously, these guys, they are so young but they don't want to see the world we really need someone to drag them out of hotel room to do some sightseeing in Korea (Keiji? )

I'm surprised that, with all the jinxing I've done, somehow I still got some points Prediction for Jr girls will be the toughest for me, I want 3 of them to win gold and at least 4 on podium, and all 6 of them could win... but I'll have at least one skater I like on podium whatever happens! for senior pairs too! At least two teams I like on podium So I can console myself when I'll mess up my predictions again

If that's how the board will look like, it seems pretty neat to me. Better than how they are now, if they look like the one on the wiki page. That one looks so clogged, it looks like one can easily mess up and press the wrong key maybe the infamous Mexican judge is merely bad at finding the right key in that mess Re: Yuzuru's ability to connect As @Yatagarasu said, when you think of how Yuzuru has managed to conquered and keep the huge fanbase he has now, you can't say that he lacks connection with audience at all. And it started before he started breaking records, so on can't even say we're all blinded by his competitive results. He brought an arena to their feet and burnt himself into the memory of so many people that likely hadn't ever paid that much attention to that noodle of a kid with a flare for spectacular falls #ImmortalQuotes by Tracy karma came back to bite her when the kid with sensational jumps and spectacular falls went to train with her I wish we had a picture of her face the moment she heard that...maybe she laughed, or she thought "oh s**t" and then "we've got some work to do". I credit her and her strictness for how Yuzu's ss upgraded from good to fab. She must be so proud help I'm melting For me, it's true that I am partial to everything Yuzu, so of course I connect with what he does easily, but then there is the fact that I've became his fan in the first place. It didn't happen because of tech or WR, it happened because I liked his performance, with the additional merit that I've come to love it despite the music not being my cup of tea. The thing that appealed me first of PW (yes, it wasn't love at first sight, but it was what made me a fan), tho I didn't really liked the music (back then I'd rather have a Four Seasons, a Moulin Rouge or a R&J anytime...) was that he looked absolutely carefree in what he did. He felt authentic, like he was having fun at a party, not like he was playing a character or wanted to tell me a story. It was just him dancing and being excited. Just like when in galas he's just there dancing and being excited. His charisma does't come from a program or a character, but from himself and I think from him being sincere in how he expresses whatever he feels (so, of course, if he feels disappointed or is too busy recalculating layouts on the fly, that can come out too) Re: ability to express music through body movements One of the (many many)things I admire of Yuzuru is that, while he still has his distinctive style whenever he skates, he has different sets of movements for every program he performs. The way he moves his arm, hands, even his head in SEIMEI is different from how he moves in, say, Chopin Ballade, which is different from Notte Stellata (even just talking about the programs he's performed this season thus far). Of course that's the aim of good choreography, too, to find movements fitting the music, but sometimes a choreo only goes as far as placing a "move" here or there on a highligh, but not truly making the movement itself unique for that particular moment in that particular program, till the smallest detail (it could be a certain way to spread fingers or extending an arm). Which is tbh what's I'd like to see someone like Shoma work on more, because he hasn't still dug into his potential there. I know he's credited for being really good with his upper body movements, but my point is repetitiveness. A lot of his movements in this season SP and FS involve clenching and opening his fists, sharply, splaying his fingers. He can move his arms and fingers with more softness, there are a few moments in the FS after the camel spin and later on and also in some of his ex programs where you can see he has a way broader range of movements, but he doesn't employ them as he could (or better, as I'd like, because he'd appeal me a lot more with that broader range of movements and he is able do them. Rewatching last season programs I've realized this season the range has actually shrunk). Also, Shoma, I know this is something really trivial, but could you at least change a bit the ending pose of your programs? Why are they all so similar? With that right arm dramatically raised to the sky? Winter, Turandot, even See you again EX. Why? I admit I haven't paid as close attention to other skaters, but this thing really stood out to me so I went to check if I was just seeing things

This is the day of the expected but still very sad WD announcements This decision must have costed her so much I hope she can be back to a reasonable condition for Nats. Slay Zhenya! Here, have a fight!zuzu as encouragment

I'm sad for Boyang, but I'm glad (and relieved) that he's taking care of himself. It made little sense to go to GPF to him anyway, with risk of worsening the injury and little gain And wow, skaters actually listening to their doctors Boyang could have listened to them before SA, but I suppose he wanted to try and prove he could earn a spot for the final. Now crossing my fingers for a great Boyang comeback

iirc someone *in the other place* said that Yuzuru is more the type that "draws you in" instead of "projecting outside". tbh I'm always a bit at loss at what "projection" really is. I mean, I've read the definition, but I don't know if I can say that skater A is better than B, because apparently my emotional involvment in a performance or a skater has nothing to do with how good projection is. I enjoy watching Mai, tho people say all the time she's not good at all in that department, while I don't really care about watching skaters that apparently ooze charisma off their pores and should make me absolutely super-thrilled about wathcing them, so to me, that "ability to project" is way more mysterious than, say, music interpretation. Maybe I should wait and see fs in person to understand the different degrees of projection. But, watching through a screen, I'm not really sure why the "projection" should necessarily imply an outward approach. When I watch skaters, I watch how their bodies move, their lines, how everything, from feet to fingertips (I'm a sucker for good fingers movements) contribute to express the music and the concept. I don't need anything more than that, no super facial emoting or grand gestures, no characters, to feel connected to a skater. And if I were to recall that time the very first time I run into FS (I could be the poster girl of casual audience back then, easily bored, liking warhorses and flashy moves. Pretty faces too), then I was way more impressed by a certain swiss guy's spins than by Plushy's legendary charisma (and both were skating to music I was very familiar with). And I remember also liking Buttle. So projection there didn't worked on me that well, sorry Plushy And I liked pretty spirals for ladies... I don't know, would you call Slutskaya good at projection? I think I liked her for her red dress with those nice sleeves and lively music and Biellmans, and maybe for her big jumps. And for pairs, were Tomtianina and Marinin so much ahed of the rest for projection, too? Because they were the only ones that I liked instantly. Or was I just impressed by her pretty landings on throw jumps and their warhorse music? (btw I saw them on one of those videos about ISU components linked a few pages ago iirc by @fireovertheice. Clarity of movement for PE). I'm just trying to understand if projection might have had any influence at all on how I, as a casual viewer, felt connected to some skaters instead of others. I might add that, while Yuzuru's Chopin Ballade and RJ1 were instant hit for me, and Notte Stellata too (to a lesser degree I think H&L, tho in the end it might have become the program I've rewatched the most by now), both PW and LGC needed a warm-up time for me. So, at least for me, connecting to a skater has little to do with having a character or being a "in your face" type of performance... I'd be really curious to know how much viewers' expectations weight on how easily they feel involved with a piece, and how much instead the music itself weights. Or maybe even just something trivial as a skater's physical appearance (as in body type). I also wonder if there might be differences about what is regarded as good projection for men and ladies. This might be related to viewers' expectations. Maybe one can feel more connected to a quiet, sweet piece if it's skated by a willowy, graceful lady and not by a sturdy man (supposing everything else to be in par)? So the lady would be deemed better at projection when it's only thanks to her looks I'm really curious. And, Idk, I have the feeling that sometimes focus and committment are mistakenly seen as awareness and emotional depth of performance. and now I'm laughing, thinking back to zuzu who was pondering on which hard entry he would do into his YOLO 3A and then ended popping it I love his nerdy big brain, but somemtimes he should just turn it off. Tho that's easier said than done @Xen I love that part of Kenji's room too (tbh, I love every part of those Yuzu-Kenji interactions), he makes things harder for himself to stay true to what the music needs, it's really admirable. And Yuzuru is also so fastidious about the timing and entries of his jumps... just for that, I don't think anyone could ever deny his inner musicality, it's a strenght but in some cases can also turn into a weakness, when the timing is off and he ends messing things... But it was superfussy Zuzu who had more than 30 music cuts done for Seimei, till music expressed the vision of the character, and with Shae-Lynn produced that iconic masterpiece... so it's ok, zuzu, keep being fussy all you want and now I so want to see Seimei 2.0 at its absolute best

they were answering a question about how they'd ranked the different pcs. It was I think past half of the podcast ETA lol you quoted me in the same moment I was quoting you imo if we speak only about competitive programs, it might be true that maybe Javier is the best at selling his program even despite technical flaws. It's also possible this might be because his programs are always about a character and he usually doesn't let his mistake affect his "character". It certainly requires a lot of focus, but I also wonder how much of that feeling of "yes, he's still feeling the music" is linked to the presence itself of that character, regardless of how much in a particular occasion the skater is really in tune with that character and not just "acting". And I still haven't listened to the whole podcast, so I don't know what they were talking about before ETA 2 I also wonder if a technical mistake might affect Yuzuru more because of how he perceives the performance, as a "whole", not a sum of parts. Even as a viewer jumps are such an integral part of his programs, because they are "expression" too.

In their defense, I might have mis-heard something because I was multitasking (listening, typing, swithcing between two languages, collecting my own thoughts on the matter...which included a rather detailed mental review of all Yuzu's programs...sorry, my brain struggles doing all of that at once) and it was late... I'll let you know later, after I'll listen to the whole podcast. But I felt they weren't really saying "it's bad", more like "there are things he's way better at". When your base line is very high, like in Yuzuru's case, what would be outstanding for others can became "not his strongest suit" for him. Tho, of course, I still think that's not true, not when talking about Yuzuru in general, without focusing on a particular skate (eg I'd agree that, in ACI Seimei, IN and PE weren't his strongest point...) ETA: btw, I think I've read somewhere that when zuzu was younger (like in juniors, or at least before the earthquake?) they said that he hadn't strong projection/connection with the audience. Can anyone confirm this or is it just me hallucinating? (happened a few times before, my memory isn't that reliable)

I'm listening to the last part of this evening podcast from Max and Angelo, they're ranking top men for the different pcs cathegories (warning, not accurate report, I'm not good at multitasking, so maybe there are major mistakes in what I'm writing) they're ranking for SS 1)Patrick 2)Yuzuru, tho they have different strenght TR 1)Yuzuru 2) Javier PE 1) Javier (I don't remember the others, Shoma, I think?) for overall accuracy of all body movements? Don't remember, I was listening and typing sorry (reading the rulebook, maybe for "personality" and clarity of movements?) IN 1) Fernandez? (tho still this season they haven't seen the best Fernandez). They say Patrick and Yuzu are a bit lower, IN isn't Yuzu's forte** (burn the ITA ESP at the stake kidding but still I beg to differ) (and I'm not sure if I haven't messed PE and IN...the more I try to remember the less sure I amsorry, guys, you'll have to wait for the translation of the words of someone else listening to the podcastand tomorrow maybe I'll re-listen and get this right) CO maybe Patrick because he's more mature and can link better everything with some meaning I don't know why, but while I can see how great Javi is at making the audience cheer and clap and get excited about his programs, I fail to be entranced by him (and I think I've rewatched at least one program from all the top six men multiple times... but none from Javi's. I'm sorry Javi ). At this point I think it's really just my taste. While Yuzuru can touch me deeply with so many of his programs (so deeply he forcefully dragged me into full time FS-blackhole). So while I can see why objectively Javier is great at PE and IN (analysing the rulebook), I fail to see how objectively IN isn't Yuzu's forte, at least right now. For me in Chopin ballad it is his forte (already was back in 2015-2016, but now it really stands out), and in Seimei, too, in LGC, in Notte Stellata, in Requiem, and Hope and Legacy (if I just think about the last years) iirc young Yuzu was said not to be very good at projection (part of PE. While, for example, projection has always been pointed out as one of Shoma's strenghts), and I've never been blessed enough to watch him live, but imo those times are long gone (as his stamina and experience grew). He drags* me in his skating as no one else (to the point I've spent whole afternoons looping the same program, over and over again). I see (half quoting from rulebook) expression of the music's feeling, timing of movements and steps, use of finesse to reflect the nuances. So, yeah, I really beg to differ And by the time I re-read and finished this post, the podcast has ended I am soooo slow) ETA *I mean that he just catches my attention and holds it till the end, like a gravitational pull. I just can't tear my eyes away. And he compels me to watch him. ** they haven't used that word, I think they've said something like "not the best point"? ETA 2 quoting from the gen thread, because if this isn't use of finesse to reflect the details and nuances of the music I don't know what it is (I kinda had a goofy smile seeing this, because well, the timing with my post is so perfect) *now off to sleep*

Whoa congrats to Rika! Now train well and slay in the JGPfinal, girl! And LOL to her adding a tano 2A to the maybe hardest combo done by ladies, because, hey, why not I hope the pressure of being the only junior jpn girl in Nagoya (and the only not-Russian) and the expectations about her 3As won't make it too hard for her (I'm still traumatized about those two unexpected falls during steps at the last JGP...) It looks like Rika won't lack motivation to train, opposite to Marin, which is good. tbh imo Hamada's words about Marin are very on point. If it's true that Marin doesn't have yet the competitive drive to make herself focus on her training, she won't be able to achive results in a field where that competitive drive is essential. And in ladies' field more than in men's is necessary not to leave any point on the plate, while Marin sometimes loses levels on spins. She can't afford that. She's more than capable (physically) to be a very good spinner, so those are really points she just throws away. Anyway congrats to all the medalists (yay Nana! yay Mistsuki!). And kudos to Shun, the world really needs more quality 3As (and 3As as last jumping pass) How old is he?

@Joey your post has just made crack me up thank you In which competitions Nathan landed the 4Lo other than US classic? Japan Open? I'm glad he's putting the loop in stand by for now, he's already got hip surgery once so I am worried...and he has a loooong preparation for it (LOL, I got spoiled) though the jump is good. And good to hear he has some long-term plan for skating. tbh I see a bigger potential in him (and Boyang) than in Shoma, tho for now Shoma is (and has been for a while) ahead of both in components. SS and expression can improve a lot with time and proper training and transitions can be added, but jumping flaws are way harder to deal with (tho Nate's words are also a good answer to the fears about him being a one-hit wonder that will disappear as soon as he gets an oly medal)

I hope I'm not making look Eteri like a evil ice queen, because I think that despite her cool attitude she really cares for her students, but I think she shares and understands her student's absolute will to compete and win, too, and Zhenya's will is very strong. Also, imo even psychologically maybe it would be easier for Zhenya to say: ok, this still sucks but I will crush everyone at Nats and Polina, who had her loads of injuries herself and whose hard work and will to compete I see everyday, might go there in my place. (thin silver lining, like for Yuzuru: withdrawing from the GP was heartbreaking, but the thought of Olys made that wd a little bit less bitter, or at least made acceptance easier, once the decision was made) But this part is just my own speculation. In the end it will all come down to how Zhenya's foot will be, her confidence and how strongly she'll want be there (or feel that she has to). For sure Satoko will be more than ready, and with the final in Nagoya I'd expect a strong push for her, were she to take Zhenya's place.

Bringing this here from SA's ladies thread because her place would go to another girl of Eteri's group, so her wd would mean one of her training mates gets a chance, instead of one competitor (of course even polina is a competitor, but it's still russian and more important one trained by her coaches). So Russia (and Eteri in particular) have more chances for medals even without her

Awwww Alina seems so down-to-earth and candid "She started watching Sherlock (BBC) but she doesn't really get what it's about. She tries to get through it" LOLOLOL Alina, dear, no one forces you to like Sherlock (is it Zhenya the one that likes it? Do they have some bonding project "watch your rinkmate's favourite tv series" or something? ). And she watches YT tutorials Sometimes one forget these fierce athletes are just normal people, and so young And Zhenya's dresses are always beautiful, her SP dress and the one she wore for COR gala are gorgeous (her hairdo too). Again, I hope she won't be unnecessarily stubborn about GPF. If she is well recovered by then fine, but no more skating with fractured foot. Please.

So sad for Zhenya's injury. When you think this gp season can't get any worse... I hope she can recover fast for the gpf, as that's what she wants, but the timing looks quite tight to me and I hope she won't just go and try to skate if she hasn't recovered properly. Wasn't she the one that said something like that Yuzuru had only to focus on getting well without rushing? Why can't these guys follow their own advice? Tho that fierce attitude (I'll call it stubborness but it's more than that) is what makes them champions... And a surprise birthday party, awwww Ekaterina (she looked pretty bossy when directing Misha and Yuzu for the pair photo, too )

Beware, your local friendly jinx is here I can't believe I've jinxed judges' pcs too Not gonna say my predictions this time tho