meoima
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Posts posted by meoima
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It's a FLUTZ clear as daylight. And I am not talking about the pre-rotation yet. The edge is so clear a flutz.
Do you think USFA and other specialists will let the cheated edge go when they have Nathan and Boyang who jump true quad Lutz out there? I laugh a bit at people who think you can fix a Flutz in a summer.
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7 hours ago, moni said:
So, I rewatched his Chopin SP from Boston (probably more than million times, LOL) and here are some possible mistakes I found in his StSq. But it depends on how strict the judge is (Yuzu had few shallow edges, or at least it looked like it to me from that camera angle).He had some unclear edges on some of his choctaws but I don't think this caused Lv3 because he did at least one clean choctaw in both directions. But his first loop (his exit RBI edge was probably not deep enough) or/and his second rocker(again, probably rather flat RFI edge) could be invalid and thus he could not fulfill the requirements to have 11 different turns and 5 different types of turns(if loop was invalid) or one difficult combination on each foot (if rocker was invalid). All the other turns seem clean too me.
Here is my analysis (it starts right after his second spin), on the first sheet I wrote down all of his steps+edges (blue color means difficult turn) + possible mistakes (red colour) at Worlds, Nationals, GPF and NKH. On the second sheet there is a summary of which requirement of Lv4 he (probaly) didn't fulfill. It's a little bit different than this analysis from NHK 2015 made by another fan. Although most of the relevant steps match, I found one more rocker and choctaw and one less counter. I'm far from an expert but this is what I'm seeing in those videos. If someone here knows about steps, please tell me whether I'm right or wrong!.gif ":)")
Tomorrow I will try to do the same with LGC at 4CC.
Yes, if the specialist couldn't see the turns (because it's too fast or it's too far), they won't count it and it might affect the level of the step sequence. Or if the specialist thinks some of the turns don't meet their requirements (not clear edge, too flat edge), they have the rights to invalid the turns even though skaters clearly did it. However, it's kinda funny to see that some skaters always get level 4 regardless of how they skate that day. I would say there is no skater who could do the step sequence perfectly all the time (I mean there's no singer who could hit high notes all the time). There will always be some mishaps in some turns or steps... but apparently specialists tend to believe some certain skaters meet all the requirements.
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Now even skate cleanly isn't enough as everyone is skating cleanly more often. How much the sport has evolved...
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9 hours ago, Sombreuil said:
Katherine Downes is a waste of space as a sports presenter- says too much and reveals her total ignorance and lack of research. I quite like Robin Cousins as a commentator but he doesn't do his homework either - I wish he'd just talk about what's in front of him and leave out the background stuff that he hasn't actually read up on.
Yeah cause my friend is asking who's the female commentator and I couldn't recall her name. Her comments are silly sometimes. Robin is just like Kurt... sometime they don't bother watching competitions I guess
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To be honest I like Tessa and Scott's Pink Floyd free dance the most. But they did not bring it to the Olympic.
Btw @Yatagarasu do you remember the name of the female ex-ice dancer who commented figure skating with Robin Cousins? I am listening to BBC commentary of Yuzuru's FS at WC 2017 and suddenly I forgot her name.
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On 7/21/2017 at 4:32 AM, Valkyria said:
Each skater will position their blades where it's most comfortable for them, that's normal. Changing their usual spot because of one jump at the risk of interfering with everything else... maybe not so much. In this case, Shoma saw a shortcut to stabilize the 4Lo quickly and took it, but has to change back because it was causing pain. It probably wasn't meant to be a long-term solution anyway, and now that he's got the feeling of the jump and more time to train it, maybe he's ready to stop using the blade positioning as a crutch *shrugs*
But as @yuzuangel said: ouch. His landings can be pretty scary already, but when you realize that he had to compensate for the blades on top of that...
I do not think of any other skater to change their blade just for one jump. They're sane enough to know that they need a healthy body for all jumps.
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I would say it's so unfair for Yagudin as his main rival's fan still go around the skating forums to make Yagudin worse than he actually was. Honestly I don't have much to say about Yagudin either other than he had overcome so many injuries and injustice. The program that I like most from Yagudin is actually the SP at WC 2011. He was injured badly by that time. Just like Yuzuru at Boston.
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1 minute ago, robin said:
Thank you!!
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The video was already taken down. Anyone already downloaded it?
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I will delete all my posts and bye. I am honestly pissed at those "preparing for the worst". Feel free to do so, I am done. Thanks.
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3 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:
Not really, it's just facing reality.
Shoma had a score of 214, 45 for his FS in Helsinki, with negative GOEs for both the 3Lz ! (-2,10) and the 4T (-0, 23). All of this too, with the a double 4T, one in combo, and the 4F in the first part of the program. At WTT already, we were looking at a double 4F, with the 4F combination moved to the second half of the program. That alone is already a significant increase, for a 4 quads program (13, 53 vs 11, 33 which is a full 2, 2 points; to remind you Yuzuru won in Helsinki by 2, 28 points for perspective sake). This is also prior to taking into account the 4Lz, which he is openly practicing and could not only include it but might then up his FS overall count to 5 quads that will then have a 2 x 4F, 4Lz, 4Lo and a 4T. His PCS is right there (94, 42) and will more than likely rise further on, on account of both his growing reputation, and pretty good music choices.This is just Shoma too, with Nathan raising his game, Javier potentially adding the 4Lo which would enable him to go up to a 4 quads program, etc. So really the increase in BV is simply a necessity. How he chooses to increase that BV is up in the air. Not including the 4Lz leaves him with eliminating one of the 3As, and having 3 quads in the second half but it's not that effective if we take into consideration the above. Then there is the option of the 4Lz plus 3 other quads, to increase stability or 4 if he wants to risk it but the Lz allows for both 3As to stay if that's the case.
His choice of Chopin and the current layout are smart because it leaves him with a, more than likely, sure amount of points in the bag, but again, Shoma with a good SP may be even with him come OG, if not ahead, so the possibility of chasing in the FS is not even remotely implausible. Again, just Shoma. We'll see on the rest.
Expecting him to raise the BV is simply facing where men's skating is at this point in time; there are quite a few excellent skaters. How he'll end up doing it, we'll see early August if we're lucky but there is no doubt whatsoever that he will do it because simply put, he has to.
I am sure Yuzuru will do 4lz and at least 5 quads in LP. It is just Yuzuru as I know.
Nathan might do just 6 quads if he thinks about his health but again I am not sure his team care about that. So 7 quads LP without transitions is possible.
Javi might mess a lot with 4Lo though... as he actually is the one who kept his layout for 4-5 seasons, so skating to a new layout might be quite dangerous.
About Shoma, with the way USFA is pushing Nathan, we might see someone finally getting his cheated jumps called fairly.
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21 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:
You mean here? No, we'll mix all of the disciplines together, to make it more fun
My relationship with Ice dance is very complicated as the teams with quite good performance were often the team with poor skating skills lol....
The legendary ice dance teams often have boring programs seriously... anyway I will give Grisuk and Platov a pass as I like their FD that won them the second OGM.
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4 hours ago, Forcefield said:
I agree that it takes time for artists/athletes to mature, and there is a peak time for everyone, but in the case of Nathan I heard he's not here for the long haul and is perhaps planning a different career after the Olympics so for him his team will probably rush and the fact that he's the best bet for medal for the US since forever means he'll get the push as well.
Like everyone has said though, it's all out of our hands and Yuzuru has the smarts to know what he is doing so fans and his team will keep on supporting him (even though some fans may or may not be disappointed in his FS when it is announced). Most importantly hopefully the JFS does their share of supporting him also because, although I do not know much about Ladies, there was conspiracy talk about how the JFS treated Japan's golden girl Mao during Sochi - if someone can englighten me - what was that all about?
They forced Mao to train abroad in some bad rinks even though she wanted to train in Japan. But I think it was just a small time. Frankly I think Mao came to Sochi very well-prepared. She skated cleanly LP at Sochi and did very well in practice. So it's her mentality that killed her SP, it's not her preparation.
About USFA yes we all remember how they pushed their skaters too soon for Olympic gold but in the end did those skaters help them remain relevant in the public eyes as a skating nation? Tara technically said goodbye to the skating world when she was just 15 and didn't help US elevate skating popularity at all. Sarah Hughes is forever remembered as the Olympic Champion who bored the heart out of all the audience. Will they ever come back to watch Sarah's skating? Hilariously it's Kwan who kept US skating relevant not those Olympic Champions.
Evan Lysacek is OGM yes but he is completely irrelevant to the American public and the skating world.
Olympic title means a lot to some people but Olympic title alone doesn't make you a legend.
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1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:
We have no idea what Yuzuru is going to come out with, until August at least, so this is my main thing right now. I am still in the same place I was previously, we will see the 4Lz. This alone would open up the field for him to experiment more, so I think his BV is also going to go up. Another important thing is that this past season, we've seen Yuzuru have first 2 then 3 quads in the second half, including that triple combination. One thing I am fairly certain of is that this will influence his thinking come this upcoming season's FS and second half quads will again appear, maybe even the full 3. Now he has already done this, so not being new ground is a big benefit. We need to wait and see what he's actually going to bring to the table to have a better idea.
As for Nathan, well there's wanting and then there's actually doing it (which goes for all of them of course) but I think going for 6 seems pretty realistic at this point (I am not sure he'd go for the 4Lo). Nathan had trouble with stamina and 5 quads this season. His program was already empty, with one or two more quads, it is just going to get worse. His PCS will be good in the SP I think but the FS? We'll see. Then if he has some in the 2nd half, as he will, it increases difficulty greatly. So it's way easier to say it than do it.
Then yes, USFSA will of course amp up the politicking, Lysacek didn't become the Olympic champion just like that; it was after months of carefully crafted both image and PR, some aimed against Plushenko directly. But Yuzuru isn't Plushenko, he is in a much better position, because there are no true flaws to go after and while they can repeat the scoring at Helsinki, Helsinki also showed that they can't underscore him without people noticing, even that much. And skating doesn't need another scandal.I am honestly not worried at this point. It's too soon, with too many variables just for those two, never mind the others, especially if the wonky judging from the previous season holds. But IMO if he goes clean, I think Yuzuru has probably got this - but clean, both in the SP and the FS. Anything else opens up the field.
And seriously, in this world there is nothing comes for free and gives you best quality and quantity in just several months. Most people don't understand why Yuzuru has to choose Chopin. It's just 7 months away from the Olympic, not 4 years.
In classical music world, many pianists keep practicing from young, like 3-4 years old. Some of them might hit all the notes of the most difficult music pieces when they're 12 but I am telling you no one says their interpretation is greatest ever.
It's Richer, Giles, Horowitz, Pollini... and other OLD pianists who are forever remembered as greatest pianists, not someone who only hit their notes right.
Come to think of it, talking about young talent who destroyed their abilities since young, there have been many opera singers who did that. Their natural voices were good and powerful and they wanted to be remembered too fast, they accepted roles that required so much destruction to their voices, by the time they're 30 their voices are done. With Opera, mostly you don't get famous before you're over 30 as it's only by that time your voices have become stable. Most opera singers are still students by the mid twenties as they have to wait for their voices to mature and study the roles and aria, songs at the same time. I don't see any young voices singing difficult musical pieces since young to develop good voice when they grow up. If you want evidence, google Charlotte Church when she was 14 and look at her now. She might be rich but she will never be recognized as a good singer by experts.
There are things in this world you can not rush. I do believe when it comes to art and technique going along, you can't rush. Figure skating is also an art, mind you.
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Will we have a session about pair separately from ice dance and singles?
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27 minutes ago, liv said:
Goebel and Nathan are very different cases. There is a big difference in skating skills between the two.... Goebel was weaker in almost every department, showed very little improvement year to year, and was nowhere near either of those two legends.... and it was 6.0 then, not COP, so who knows what the marks would have been then.
ITA about BV not being everything, ITA, i'm just saying the rest of " everything" of his skating will be getting better quickly and I'm afraid of the marks he's going to get. I am not a big fan of his, but he's young, has potential and has a powerful federation behind him.
I don't see the current Nathan being better than Goebel at 2002.
Well if you go for 6-7 quads, there's not much to improve your skating skills. There is something only time and experience can help and that is expression. In classical music world, there are many young prodigy who play difficult pieces like Lizst without missing a note. But it takes quite a long time for them to become someone as legendary as Pollini for example. I would rather listen to Claudio Arrau missing notes than to some young robots who can hit every note.
I have faith in Yuzuru more. We all know American fed will do anything to support Nathan while JSF will more likely to not do that for Yuzuru. But Yuzuru is very good at dealing with tensions. The more everything is against him (Korean ice might not welcome him the most, strongest feds have their own favorites, JSF don't support him as much as they could) the more he can make it.
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14 minutes ago, liv said:
i agree. That is usually the case... My scary scenario is where Nathan goes totally clean. I know everything is theoretical, but the question for me is how much improvement in his skating will there be, beyond the jumps, and if so, how much will the judges give him for it. If he has knock your socks off programs, and also skates perfectly, what happens if the other guys go clean too? What if, for the first time in forever, the top guys all skate perfectly at the Olympics?
That being said, I would love to see it. A perfect final flight. What a treat it would be for everyone.
Goebel skated clean back to back at Salt Lake city on home ice with 3 quads in the LP (a quad in the second half) and went third on his home ice.
so yeah... the reason? His skating was weak compared to both Plushenko and Yagudin. The highest BV doesn't say it all.
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15 minutes ago, liv said:
That is the tricky thing. What if they all skate clean or close to it? Nathan, for example, will only get better in the second mark... and if he hits his target BV? We know yuzu should have better GOE, but sometimes he does not get them. A clean yuzu may not win over those with clean higher bv. It is the olympics, and I am a cynic.
Yuzuru will have higher BV than last season. But he shouldn't have highest BV. The history said it, (aside from Sochi which was abnormal) the men who won Olympic until now were the men who skated cleanest, not the ones with highest BV.
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1 hour ago, Altie said:
No. It was last summer.
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I love this program. It's a masterpiece.
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On 7/13/2017 at 1:46 AM, kiches said:
Well Yuzu did tell Nobu that he was going explore new spins this summer during that FaoI Kobe video. I look forward to seeing what he comes up with, I love his spins but would appreciate a bit of a change up!
I am more looking forward to a new jump. Oh btw
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5 hours ago, katonice said:
Looking at it now, yeah the first forward sit spin didn't get 2 revolutions.
But I thought with the sideways sit spin he was able to achieve 3 revolutions, or a little bit over 2 if I wanted to be strict about it.
I guess I started counting sooner than the judges lol.
ETA: Also, let's say he wasn't given credit for the first forward sit spin position, and he achieved a (maybe doubtful) 2 revolutions for the sideways sit, does that mean he also didn't meet the minimum 3 revolutions before and after the change of foot? In practical terms, he did spin more than 3 times on the first foot, but just didn't receive the feature on the first spin.
Because it's a SP and spin in one position with change of foot is compulsory. His position after he changed his foot was not counted, his skating thigh was not achieving required level... It means that after change of foot spin has not been counted because no basic position was achieved. Furthermore because spin with change of foot is compulsory in SP the whole spin was washed out
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42 minutes ago, katonice said:
Yes, that's the one. His last spin towards the end received no marks according to the protocols.
Was trying to understand why that was so.
He did not have at least 2 continuous revolutions in a basic position. Tech specialist ONLY starts counting when he is in the position. But Nam did not settle down in the first basic position which was the sideway sit spin. He might thought he did enough revolutions but they did not count his first 2 revolutions as his body was not in the proper sit position. In the last revolution he moved up his body, thus the position was not counted.
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This post make it easy to understand about turns and steps: http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/162905929409/turns-and-steps-explained-12
General Skating Chat
in Knickknacks: General Skating Chat
Posted
The video is on youtube here:
It is clear a Flutz and UR... look at the hook in the landing
I am glad you miss me. But I just can not stand people who have no clue about skating who go around counting BV and think that fake technique can be fixed in a summer. Now we have clear evidence of how much it can be "fixed". I will just ran away.