meoima

This news says Yuzuru has pain in his right knee it seems, and his program might be adjusted. 

Autumn Classic judge line up... https://twitter.com/oro1_/status/909864099542007810

One more thing to be sad for Lombardia judging, that the top scores there were close and higher than this, ughhh judges make me want to vomit: 

On 9/16/2017 at 9:15 PM, xeyra said:

 

I feel like that'll be the layout he will do at ACI. To test 5 quads. If clean, though, I expect the 4Lz to enter the game after.

Well, with Nathan and Boyang and plenty of other men including 2 Russian men will do 4lz this season. And all of them have correct lutz edge so it's super easy to call.  

Why Zhenia and Osmond and Daleman don't get their flutz called? Because they're medal contenders from big federations and they all benefit from flutz not get called.

However most men from big federations have correct lutz edge, so there's a high chance they will not let  a big fish go.

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

So... It's just challenger series but with only 2 spots you can bet JSF is watching. Right now, Marin just won US in't classic and Wakababy got PBs at Lombardia. Both skated clean. The pressure is on! It's Mai's turn next week at ACI. Good luck Mai!

Somehow I'd rather they don't peak that early. I don't know hoe to say it... but I mean... it's more reassuring if they don't do well in senior B and even senior A. 

14 minutes ago, Amura365 said:

Seeing the scores at Lombardia Trophy what were the judges on? Seems like the judges really want someone to break Hanyu's  world record scores. I mean Shoma getting 319 at the beginning of the season!

 It seems clear to me that they don't want Hanyu to repeat as Olympic gold medalist they want a new Olympic champion. I won't be shocked if Nathan or Shoma  win the Olympics. Quite frankly I expected it with the scores the judges have been willing to throw out to anyone like candies. 

Yuzuru has proven that he can force the jugdes to give him what he wants by his quality skating when it's important the most. The more they don't want him, the better he will show them how great he is. Actually I think it's good, because I love to see the faces and the expressions of those who want to score Yuzuru low but can't just because lol

Btw the system will change after this season anyway so it's easy to understand why everyone is getting candies. Not to mention the influence of Bianchetti Bianconni on Italian fed... lol google that person and you will understand.

I don't agree with people who think the scores will be tamed after this competition though. More likely the scores will go wild more and more. But that we can't do anything about it. 

57 minutes ago, Saya said:

Nathan has the advantage of being comfortable with his quads, which is why he has no problem with gradually incorporating them/improvising. Yuzuru on the other hand never landed the 4Lz in competition, and as we all know, he is not the fastest to adapt to his new layouts...So, no. I don't think he's going for the same strategy.

 

  On a side note, I really wanted Yuzuru to pull a 4lo combo...He always goes for new quad combos the season after he gained some consistency with the solo quad (i.e 4S) Maybe he doesn't think his loop is that reliable yet.

I wouldn't say that Nathan is more comfortable with quads especially when Nathan only did 3 quads in total at US classic. His strategy is that he adds the PCS first and then the quads later and maybe ignore some transitions or difficult moves in the long run. But there is no guarantee that it will work well in the end. We don't know and frankly Nathan himself doesn't know either. That's why he only did 3 quads at US Classic. To PR his "potential". But we all know plan and the reality might differ. 

What makes Nathan comfortable most is that he can be happy with his current choices, not doing many quads and US media will just jump in to protect him (see how Jackie Wong is going out with all his force to say Nathan is only testing out). 

Javi also has the same luxury because frankly Spanish media will care nothing about the number of quads his rivals do.

Yuzuru does not have that luxury, Japanese media and some of  his own people, will trash him like there is no end if he doesn't do 5 quads right at the beginning of the season. He will do 4lz at Autumn Classic or not I don't know but I am sure there will be hundreds of media trash him for a mistake even if he lands 4lz lol. 

And this is why I think JSF isn't smart but who am I to tell them lol. Their media and the fed are too busy creating rivalries for their own skaters and totally forget they might make their top skaters worn out too soon. 

All they want is some constant wins and forget that, whatever truly matters will be at the Olympic, not the inflated and unrealistic scores at senior B or even GP. 

See US classical doesn't care to boost scores too much. It's unnecessary for the time being. USFA will play their political games, but not here during this time, it will be at Skate America and US national.

30 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

There are pros and cons to everything and adding the 4Lz later on also has these so I don't think he'll wait that long. Doing it in competition is completely different to practice so when you look at the upcoming competitions, it's really NHK that sort of stands as the latest possible option, if he wants  enough time to incorporate it properly because post that? GPF, J Nats and Olympics. All of those are important.

 

Personally, I actually believe that he is capable of pulling off his high-average season. 
We'll see.

 

 

I feel really sorry for Boyang actually. Having seen Nathan's FS and prior to that Boyang's FS all I can say is uh oh, did he get screwed over. I am not even sure what he can do right now. Go back to the previous season's program and aim for stability with an increase difficulty seems like the best option for me but in any case I do hope Team China is taking a very, very close look at his situation and I hope they choose wisely. 

 

 

 

I don't think he should wait several competitions to add the 4lz, after all he has been practicing it for a while. But of course going against Javi at AU where Canadian might prefer Javi over Yuzuru lol it's hard to say.

7 minutes ago, Xen said:

I wonder if that's why Javi and Yuzu are both at ACI...to chill each other a bit and to egg each other on a bit!

Yuzuru will eat Javi alive... because he's that extra 

7 minutes ago, xeyra said:

So, in the end, what is the best strategy Yuzu can have to counteract this? Aim for that season-long consistency?

I think Yuzuru's fans should just stay chill because he won't be clean back fo back whole season like he wants anyway.

I have read Yuzuru's interviews for 5-6 years? And he always aims for what his true nature isn't built for. 

I am not an old person, but old enough to understand your true nature will never change. Yuzuru will always be emotional and he will only do well in the right condition. But will you have the right conditions every time? No. So he has to accept that and embrace that.

This is why a bit of Javi's attitude is good for Yuzuru. Stay chilllll...

Lol his strategy is to stay calm and stay away from his own media people, stay as long as he could in Toronto because in Japan it's toxic from all sides lol. I hope I don't offend Japanese fans but when all around media news are saying he's old he's outdated he should step down, that they don't believe in him then better to stay away. 

His true layout is enough to win Olympic if he does well.

Believe in Yuzuru. 

54 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I have low pressure too, and today I'm even sick with the flu. I survived it, but it was a fight, especially during the first half. To me, it looked as empty between one jump and another, as Nathan's LP last season. Maybe at the end of the season, when he was a little more comfortable with the music. But that's all. Interpretatively, it was a lowest imo. 

I would say both programs Shoma did like 60-70 crossovers. 2 quads UR, some borderline UR. Both 3A very tilted on the air. The 1lo3F technique is getting more questionable when he leap his feet. Some bad habit in the axis. And needless to say, transitions are false because who cares....

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season.  Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.

I would say Nathan might not care if he loses Cup of Russia,

American skaters can afford to mess the whole GP, all they need is to do well at National and WC (and Olympic), ask Michelle Kwan who often lost at GP levels but won WC 5 times. 

51 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season.  Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.

Let me tell you the story of Maxim Trankov and Tatiana, the Olympic champion in pair at Sochi 2014. At some point after Olympic, Trankov admitted that after they got huge score from the beginning of the season, then throughout the season, his team dropped of most difficult transitions to ensure they would skate cleanly as much as they could. And they won partly due to the original PCS was high when they did harder programs and those scores kept going up and up.

I can see someone aiming to do the same. 

Transitions are false. They're no need for transitions if you land your jumps and make the judges love you. All of this has to do with PR.

When people and judges believe that your programs are beautiful you will get everything. 

42 minutes ago, Xen said:

And the main place where people believe bring back compulsory figures will solve everything....

 

But seriously, I didn't really expect less from Lombardia.Still salty about Deniss and Jason's scores on PCS, but seeing one is small fed and another doesn't have a quad (and how quads are rewarded in PCS a little too much). Then I'm not surprised that Shoma had that high in terms of PCS scores-since judges give PCS scores for skaters relative to each other, not surprising. For Nathan, while a tad more realistic, it's not that surprising either. It's not like he had major competition-Max Aaron isn't exactly known for Artistry in public perception.

 

First, if Shoma and Nate went head to head, that might have given scores more indicative for the rest of the season. So I'm thinking ACI might give us more indicative scores-we have Javi and Yuzu who are both capable of jumping quads, going clean, and are known to have high PCS scores going head to head. So either judges do not give high 9.5ish scores for both, causing outrage but possibly also taming down the scores of the youngsters later on (since it might not make sense otherwise), or judges must raise their scores since Javi and Yuzu both had pretty good PCS scores last season and cannot really be scored below Shoma or Nate if they both give decent performances. I think the latter might be more likely.

 

Second, I think usually Series B might give top competitors higher scores, since the PCS scores are more of how skaters are relative to each other. So I'd expect GPF scores to be lower than current ones- for some of the skaters. IE I think Jason might stay the same or go up, Deniss might stay the same (though I really want it to go up), and Nate to stay around the 8.5-9.25 bandwidth. Shoma's might go down if he goes up against Patrick though, and he does face Javi too! So I would imagine current Shoma scores to be closer to what he would get if he skates relatively clean, towards the end of the season (GPF and Oly and worlds).

 

Third, I wonder if the tech panel will get teeth as we go on during the season. There's enough fury online,  and if controversy is already starting to pile on, the ISU might consider doing something. Tech panel having teeth for once, might be the easier solution.  And I think that might hit a couple of younger skaters a bit more since the biggest complaints technique has been directed towards them (or a certain someone).

 

I've already watched Nate's new FP with a pal over dinner. We both pretty much agreed that it's better than last year, his jumps seems to have improved a bit (though landing is still not as fluid as Yuzu or the uncles), and don't think this artistry will hold up under the strain of 6 quads. We both expect Nate would bring Prince Igor-Mao's Last Dancer style to the Olys. And we find his "winging layout" idea a bit disturbing (a recipe for falls etc since you can't really run through multiple layouts easily in practice ) and ripe for Zayaking.

As for Shoma's new free program...I have low blood pressure by nature, should I risk it and take a peek?

 

You know what's so impressive about Nathan's strategy? It's such a great PR stunt from his team and USFA and their media.

Nathan doesn't need to land 6-7 quads right now to prove anything, people automatically believe that he already landed those quads. And they automatically love his new programs because they're good and they totally ignore how much it might be affected by quads (and pressure). 

It is amazing his team and US media makes people believe it. And judges will believe it as well. 

And they all ignore that Nathan only landed a 4F step out in the SP, and 2 quads in LP. They're like "OMG at this rate Nathan might retire when he won and his career would be too short!!"

I can see Nathan will just gradually add quad depends on his condition, do less transitions (actually his current program doesn't have much transitions except good upper body use), and his PCS will just go up and up.

such amazing strategy and people love it without a doubt and believe him without a doubt. 

Btw I can image if Yuzuru jumps 5 quads with 4lz at Autumn Classic, the media will say he copies someone lol. Been there, done that.

5 minutes ago, Neenah said:

Funny that there are people (not in this forum) that are complaining about the scores for US International not bring as high as Lombardia..

 

I thought we are supposed to complain about inflation not correct scoring  

US classic scores well and gave out some acceptable and sensible scores while the other not lol. But I think USFA will soon reconsider their scoring lol. The game is to play big big and big, give out huge scores as much as possible.

But again those numbers might be double edge swords and become huge pressure later on. 

So I would say I still prefer Nathan's strategy. 

8 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

I do, I think he'll be clean for the SP.

The wobbles in the FS are more expected, so I am not entirely sure how that'll go, especially with the 5 quads, but I don't expect anywhere near the last ACI performance; he'll be far more prepared. 

 

Well I have seen this before, by season 2014-2015, Machida did well in GP while Yuzuru did a mess. And media played shit, acting like Yuzuru's the worst etc, and we know what happened lol.

I am sure most people including his fans, especially new fans, already write Yuzuru off because they don't think he can handle consistency and that he can handle new quads. 

But his old fans, especially who knows his pattern, are just chilling out on twitter because we know the media is disgusting as always and the judging is equally bad as well lol.  

I mean... lol they're going to replace the system anyway way. After this USFA might feel regrets about the scores they gave at US Classic. But they will have other works to do lol.

I think people should just play chill in the first half of the season. Whatever happens in the first half of the season might be different from the second half. I for sure don't think he will be clean at Autumn Classic lol. And frankly Javi will be there I think it's not going to be easy as judges might keep some scores down to leave room for the other. Some of them might  have their top priority on their more ideal macho man. I don't think he should be clean there either. And his usual pattern is that he messed his early competitions. 

It is ok if media throw storm at him. It's not something we can do, lol. 

2 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

Strategy Talk Time!

 

1st 2 challenger series with 2 of the top 6 men done skating.

 

Nathan: He's definitely keeping silent about his planned layout (prolly because there is no planned layout LOL). The fact that he can execute 5 different quads means he can play around with layouts and still get a high BV. They are scaling back on the quads though. And like I (and a few others) said, his team is prolly going for gradual addition of quads throughout the season to build up the PCS as the program gets emptier when the number of quads are added. Smart move because we did see the high PCS he built up last season from jumping ALL the quads culminating to Worlds went down after the failed FS at Worlds. The music choice for both the SP and FS are a much better fit and shows a bit of personality  (added bonus of not being a warhorse).

 

Shoma: From recent interviews he says he's thinking about 4S and 4Lz. He's a bit of reactive in terms of strategy so I feel like we'll see some changes in layout once he's done competing with Nathan at Japan Open - depending on what Nathan's layout is gonna be. /LOL/

Nathan will not care to win Japan Open, because it's Japan Open, sorry it's a fake competition. Skaters come there to get the money and test the feelings of their programs. I am not shocked if Nathan goes to Japan Open and only does 3-4 quads. 

Nathan's strategy I think is much wiser in this case. He debuts the program first, get good impression and good PCS first. And he will add more quads as he feels healthy. Judges will never give much lower PCS than they gave it in the past.

Aslo, Nathan's team is trying to make him not to peak too early by adding too many things all at once.

if I have to bet between Shoma and Nathan, who will place higher at Olympic, I will bet on Nathan. 

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

You're right, I just found it amusing to think Nathan was trolling people with that impossible layout but it seems dumb in retrospect. 

 

However, doing 4Lo at his first competition is a smart strategy. Because introducing the 4Lo only makes sense if it's to eventually do 7 quads, no matter how much they're 'ah that's crazy' and 'we'll see'. It's going to get that USA media tongue wagging all season, that's for sure. And for starters we have the icenetwork article with Max Aaron doing good PR work on Nathan and even his 4Lz4T! 

Well no one is stronger than USA when it comes to PR.

1 minute ago, yuzuangel said:

NGL, I really disliked Gracie during Sochi, and generally dislike American athletes because of how obviously biased the media here. It just makes me want to root for anyone else. It took a season and a half for me to realize that Gracie isn't the picture perfect robot that NBC makes her out to be, she is a real person and has real struggles, and she became infinitely more likeable after that.

Gracie is a nice girl and I've always liked her. But my friend who first saw her at Sochi also disliked her a lot. Now she forgot Gracie already.

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Wait, really? I take it back, USA media sucks even harder than Japanese. 

I assure you, had the lady who won over Yuna Kim at Sochi were Gracie, not Adelina, the whole US-UK media would never mention Yuna Kim at all. 

Just now, yuzuangel said:

If Nathan and Vincent were 1-2 at worlds there might be. /Thinks back to the Michelle v. Tara rivalry/

Headline to me remembered of those times: American beat Kwan (because apparently Michelle Kwan is Asian and not American enough). 

1 minute ago, xeyra said:

 

I remember when Patrick's planned layout for 4CC (or was it Worlds) had him planning to Zayak, apparently. 

Yeah, that's why it's a bit too much to take it as the team want to fool people. Why would they think of some unrealistic layout that doesn't follow the rules at all? So people laugh at them? Who would they want to fool? Skating people practically knows it's a wrong layout, because they skate themselves. Even judges who don't skate know it's wrong layout. Who would take it seriously and panic?

Mostly just people who don't understand skating. 

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I know. I didn't take the planned layout seriously and they're usually all wrong anyway. But I wouldn't put it past his team's strategy to mess up on it on purpose. 

If his team want to mess people up they would have put a more realistic layout with 8 jump passes and 3 spins. And only 1lo3F, not 2lo3F because there's no way to change edge. If I want to troll anyone, I would make it realistic. Cause anyone who understands skating knows that layout is impossible. 

Mostly it's bad management.

I have been working as a volunteer in sport events many times. It's not weird that there are miscommunications and the people in charge give out some wrong information. It happens all the time.