meoima

2 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Are they just worried about the men? Because at least the men are bringing more quads at an alarming rate, whereas the women, have been doing 3Lz-3T's for eternity and their scores are going up like crazy too. But they don't seem to care much about changing the judging for ladies.

Yes, they said something like the current men only focus on quads so they want to emphasis on artistry... they think too many quads are killing men skating.

Which makes me laugh a lot. It's the bad judging that kills the skating, not quads.

2 hours ago, SSS said:

you mean both? lower bv and separation?

Khoai did say this in GS sometimes before. Now both are banned on GS. Apparently his coach is old friend with the current ISU Vice president and they talked about the huge scores going up and up through emails. Since 2 years ago they already talked about how to reduce the scores. And there are a large part inside ISU hate the progressive movement so...

3 hours ago, robin said:

Wow ummmm what are the chances that ISU will actually go through with this proposal? Just... can we not?

They will, it has been in the talk since 2015 when Yuzuru broke 300 barrier. Actually ISU vice president mentioned the same thing in an email to my friend's coach. We thought they're just playing something in the ground but they're truly bringing it.

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Aside from the GOE changes, which might work if judges actually use them correctly, the problem with all of these proposed changes is that they're so contradictory to the 'bridging the gap between artistic and technical' idea. Separating programs between technical and artistic? Removing a jumping pass in men but instead of using that time to allow for more choreographic touches, let's also take away 30s of the program duration? Lowering the value of quads for...?

 

They don't know what they're doing!

Taking away 30s actually has nothing to do with upgrading the artistic side of the sport. It's more like shorter time for each program, easier for broadcasters. They live on tivi license. 

6 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

I don't think men's figure skating has ever been great in the U.S....it's not really as mainstream as the women. And if they want the women's event to be more watchable, I think they have a lot they can fix there (i.e. base values for quads/3A should be HIGHER, layout balance should be rewarded, etc.) And no basically-predetermined winners.

Men skating is considered gay-ish and feminine in most macho-culture. And American culture is in general very macho. It's hilarious for USFA or ISU to think that they could "make skating great in America again" by pushing American men. American macho culture will never care about male skating. They totally don't care who Evan Lysacek was, even their reporters forgot he's the OGM. 

Because in this "art" sport, ladies sell more (aside from Yuzuru and Plushenko). 

One example, look at Tessa and Scott new website. Tessa has some sponsors for herself while Scott only have shared sponsors with Tessa. 

Or another example, Marin Honda is actually mentioned by Japanese media more than Shoma Uno. 

Skating was big in America during 90s because they had many strong ladies who won left and right like Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerringan, Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipninski, Sasa Cohen... 

This is figure skating, in most cases, ladies matter more.

If USFA and ISU want to make skating in America big again, they should invest in the ladies. 

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Yuzuru and Boyang broke their system in 2015, both by having their TES significantly differ from their PCS, only in different directions. Some of these changes were, like the -5+5 GOE interval, already proposed then. But the system keeps breaking more and more and they're scrambling for further solutions but they can't change anything before the Olympics. And their panic, plus the idea that figure skating must be great in the USA again, is making them have the stupidest ideas. 

Simply because they don't teach the judges how to score properly. 

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

 

He's winning over guys who compete at seniors in the competitions he's been in. He's not even 13 yet? 

Stephen has to grow up first. We shall see how he will handle his body once he grows up. 

His "4lz" is UR and his Lutz has questionable edge.

His 4S is PR and UR sometimes and doesn't get called. 

Really good for his age. But he needs time. 

2 minutes ago, daisyjune said:

Yes, it's from Brian's interview on Baseball Magazine.

I thought it's already been translated into English, but obviously not yet?

(We Japanese fans all talked about it on internet when the magazine published.)

There is so much content there so it must be difficult for all of them to be translated.

It took like one hour and half for me to read through it.

Anyway, Brian talked thus but Yuzu seemed to decide his plan without telling Brian

because Yuzu's interview was after Brian's talking to media.

 

 

 

I would say it's not that Yuzuru decided without telling Brian. Because Brian didn't tell the media Yuzuru would do this or that. Brian simply said Yuzuru tested out something (which is normal for top skaters, even Kwan tried 3A in practice years ago) and that the final decision is Yuzuru's only. So Brian doesn't tell the media Yuzuru's plan. And Yuzuru also doesn't tell the media his whole plan yet. 

9 minutes ago, Fay said:

Gosh, the way information travels. The original post which started that 4Lz and 4A story comes from GS - someone just told the gist of what they read in the Figure Skating Magazine. Someone google-translated it into Russian, published it and thence it started its travel.

Let's wait and see if some translation of that interview is made by someone like gladi. Before that, I'd take it with a grain of salt. 

Yeah I am banned from GS so I didn't know about that. Apparently I have no doubt about 4lz. But 4A is a different story. From Ambesi, we already knew Yuzuru did land the 4A in practice anyway. It's just I am quite surprised that Orser mentioned both 4Lz and 4A to a Japanese magazine.

However, reading the original quotes from Yude, I can see that it's just some testing out. We have known all skaters train crazy things in practice so it's not something of a big deal. 

5 minutes ago, Floria said:

I am trying to investigate the source. It seems to be a FB group with mostly Russian members. They publish FS news and rumours from unknown sources. I don't know if we can believe any of it.

 

 

My friend said actually Orser told Japanese media, in BBmock or so. So this Russian part is also just a translation. 

Anyway, "testing out" just means "trying it out". So there is no reason to panic. Yes of course he has to train all those jumps in practice. Most skaters are training like that. It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal if he decides to put them in the layout which I highly doubt it. 

I don't know if this is legit or not.

----

Brian Orser: "Hanyu tested 4A, 4Lz, not so much 4F, but the decision on content for the Olympic Games has not yet been made".

 Coach of the Japanese figure skater Yudzuru Khanyu Brian Orser told about his jumping over his pupil in the Olympic season. 

 "Yuzuru tested a quadruple lutz, a quadruple axel, but not so much a quad flip.  We have two more weeks before we decide on the layout, we need to think about what content to perform at the Olympics. 

 So far, nothing has been confirmed, but everything depends on Yuzuru himself.  We must approach the decision smartly and strategically, "Orser said.
________________________________________________________________

Брайан Орсер: «Ханю тестировал 4A, 4Lz, не так сильно 4F, но решение о контенте на Олимпийские Игры пока не принято»

Тренер японского фигуриста Юдзуру Ханю Брайан Орсер рассказал, над какими прыжками работает его ученик в олимпийском сезоне.

«Юдзуру тестировал четверной лутц, четверной аксель, но не так сильно четверной флип. У нас есть еще две недели, прежде чем мы примем решение о макете, мы должны подумать, какой контент исполнять на Олимпийских играх.

Пока ничего не подтверждено, но все зависит от самого Юдзуру. Мы должны подойти к решению умно и стратегически», — сказал Орсер.

from https://www.facebook.com/groups/inskate/permalink/809678689206337/

25 minutes ago, Nerdincool said:

Hey, so sorry to get off topic but I just couldn't ignore this. This is my first time posting here and I was more than happy just reading rather than posting on this site but when I was in the middle of looking up "Yuzuru speaking Korean" on google I came across something that worried me....

Note: The original post was apparently made by a Japanese net page, not a Korean one which is even more worrying?? Why do people hate??

It has been there for a while. It was translated into my language as well. And most people (if not all) jumped in to defend him. Sadly yes it was originally from a Japanese site, not Korean. The truth is there are some anti Yuzuru in Japan too. But the love for him is overwhelming. You don't have to worry much about that. I have noticed from 4CC that Korean fans quite like Yuzuru. It's ok 

It's very beautiful 

Just now, kaerb said:

omg apparently 2 weeks before Worlds, Yuzu had an asthma attack. It hurt and he couldn't breathe, but then he still skated that perfect program ; ___ ; 

The day before the SP at WC, there was a post in Russian VK forum that a volunteer saw Yuzuru having trouble with breathing and he had to skip practice that day. So... I am glad he still won. The rest is history.

Just now, Lyyli said:

One more thing, I don´t know where to put this question, maybe here better than to the other general thread. Does anyone know how many people work for Yuzu outside the Cricket club and is everything including his finance managed by the JSF or is it his private thing? Does Ms Shirota work in JSF or privatly for Yuzu? There is Mr Kikuchi and I believe his mother also works for him full time and is paid for that. Some people also give him advice, they were present in the meeting he had with Brian. Does anyone know who they are?

1

I think they're paid by ANA, his main sponsor. 

Butt spin is the spin that I dislike the most, and it pains me so much when I see ladies do it lol... It's the spin I think should be banned. But of course I am not the one who set the rules.

Oh I pretty much like what is happening in that forum right now. When most of Yuzuru's fans are not there, they still get a heap of negative comments towards the cheated jumps from various people who ARE NOT Yuzuru's fans. I am so glad they can not blame Yuzuru's fans anymore, cause we are not there. It's just natural, when someone does not do it as hard as the other people and get same or even higher rewards, of course the rest will get angry over time. 

Now even Jackie Wong, the one who is pretty much lenient with the tech, starts calling out the UR and wrong edge, and even though not directly calling out the bad technique, he does try to imply that purer technique should be appreciated more, even though we clearly know why he said what he said.

Are all of them Yuzuru's fans? Lol no... It's good to not getting involved in the mess. 

11 minutes ago, SSS said:

Just curious, does Patrick skate faster than Yuzu in competitions now?

No, I would say the current Patrick is slower than Patrick at his peak (Olympic Sochi season). While Yuzuru is still approaching his peak. 

12 minutes ago, Xen said:

I think the lack of slow-mo is the issue. The difference between 180 and 220 is harder to ID at full speed, though there are times I suspect it even at full speed because his left leg is really odd. If I refer to Tom Z's video, a lutz should take off with both toe picks leaving the ice.This is because if pre-rotated too far, the left outside becomes a left inside, as the jump off point has a small flag-if you don't jump off, you will go into inside edge while you pivot.  So at full speed, I'd check whether the left free leg kicks away and out to be a lutz, or if it turns sideways and up for a flip. 

 

As for forward facing...well those soft knees help. He manages to do all that pivoting with his body twisting slower than his legs, so if you check between him and Nate's jumps, Nate's have a bit of a clear jerk up (his body perks up) when he launches, while Shoma's is smoother (like a loop). I really applaud that Shoma is trying to change his jumps, he's working hard like a maniac,  but I think his jump technique does do a disservice to the rest of his skating (and that goes back to who monitored his single or double jumps when he may have been too young to know the difference). 

Nathan jumps higher and bigger than Shoma for sure.

Nathan's jumps do not have the biggest ice coverage though, compared to Boyang, his jumps are smaller. They had photos side by side to compare in the Ice Jewel magazine. Boyang's 4lz is really great but I am not sure his other quads (and other triples) are huge, maybe ok height and coverage but not super. 

Yuzuru and Patrick have biggest jumps. I think Patrick has biggest 4T3T and maybe biggest 3F, had he jumped 4F maybe it will be huge. Yuzuru has biggest edge jumps (4lo,4S, 3A). Javi have big quads but his triples not so big. 

4 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

His tweet there is quite confusing for anyone who's not really an expert, like myself... but in the comments below he does say, regarding Shoma's quad Flip, that it's not pre-rotated. It's just a 'messy tap'.

 

Jackie Wong is not a specialist though. Below is what a specialist think 

I am saying ISU clearly KNOW Shoma cheats the take-off in his jumps. It has definition in the ISU handbook. They just do not want to add too many things and change the whole judging system before the Olympic. 

And if you notice Jackie Wong's description, you can see that he does not outright attack Shoma as having cheated jumps. However, he does remind people gently that a "PURE TAP" like Nathan deserves higher GOE than a "MESSY TAP" by Shoma. Political action at its best. Of course he knows ISU won't punish bad take-off for at least a year. Now it is time to do politicking for American skaters. Like: "Yes we won't say anyone cheat, but our skaters deserves better."

BTW, in some ISU meetings, the experts there do address some problems with the current judging and they do point out various issues the fans have said. They just do not attack those issues for some various reasons.

38 minutes ago, fluffypooh said:

 

I see that 3A is more difficult. But u were saying Zhenia's turns are clear n neat, so I am wondering if Yuzu's turns are less clear . We always try to compare skating skills among the guys, it would be interesting to know how it compare to the ladies, since Zhenia was also breaking records. 

Yuzuru often has very good turns, his edge is sharp and clear. However, he does everything VERY FAST. So it makes it harder to judge him as we have to follow his crazy speed. I would say Zhenia is slower and easier to see how she does things. 

Yuzuru at his best he maintain great speed across the program. Zhenia is not the fastest lady, even though she also maintains ok speed across the program. One thing for sure, she definitely is not as fast as Yuzuru. 

I would say Zhenia has better basic skating skills than some male skaters whom I cost so much time to identify their turns and steps. 

4 minutes ago, fluffypooh said:

So how would u compare Zhenia's turn to Yuzu's? 

sorry don't know much about it still

They both start their elements with a counter and end it with a counter. While Yuzuru prefers to use counter with the 3A, Zhenia uses it with the 3Lo.

Yuzuru's counter 3A counter is the most difficult in my opinion.

Too bad Zhenia isn't that excellent at the Axel to do the same. It's very legit to say her transition sequence in and out of the 3Lo is exquisite.

45 minutes ago, katonice said:

Thanks for explaining this. I learn something new everyday. 

 

Shoma's entry does look like a 3-turn, even for someone like me who struggles to remember the differences between all these different turns lol. How did that person come up with something so complex to describe it? 

 

And woah Zhenya. Her transitions are really something aren't they?

I think the intention that Shoma wanted to do was a Rocker - 3 turn, but he executed it not well enough. That's why it turned into a 3 turn - 3 turn. Even with rocker - 3 turn - 4 loop, I wouldn't call it the most difficult entry before 4Loop ever. 

Let's take a look at a much more difficult entry that Yuzuru does:  spread eagle RBO/LFO – cross roll RBO/LBO – change of foot RBO - 4 Lo (and a spread eagle after that).

What's so great about Yuzuru's transitions in and out of his jumps (and Zhenia's transitions too) is that you can reverse the order and the elements will still look the same. 

As for Zhenia, I love that her turns are so clear and neat, if I were judging in competition, I would give her good GOE too, because I can see clearly everything to give points.

I quite like the counter 3Loop counter she is doing. In my opinion, Yuzuru might have liked it as he will do counter 3A counter! It's a very nice contrast. 

OK so I have just heard some ridiculous comments the entry of some jumps. Normally I would ignore it but I am afraid if there is no clear analysis, many people might have believed such FALSE and MISLEADING remarks. 

So that person claims that Shoma Uno's transitions before the 4lo is the most difficult entry. He said that Shoma Uno did Rocker RBO-RFO into a  FO-RBO counter before the 4lo. I have to say it's totally wrong. He even compared Shoma Uno's entry before the Loop to Evegenia Medvedeva's crazy entry before her Solo 3Loop in the short program. 

I have noticed many people believe that person. I write this post because I do not want them to spread the wrong information around too widely. I want to make it straight.

First, simple definition of the turns in figure skating: http://chibura.tumblr.com/post/163644861710/please-enjoy-some-videos-about-the-6-one-foot

This one is very good: http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/162905929409/turns-and-steps-explained-12

Second, please use the super slow motion before the jumps in these fancam:

Zhenia's 3Lo entry https://youtu.be/LqhOqRukNNU?t=1m55s

Shoma's 4lo's entry https://youtu.be/dWKrE7cbPsg?t=6m32

Third, let me break it down.

1) Zhenia's entry before solo 3lo: Right back outside edge - counter - Right forward outside edge - Change of edge to inside edge into 3 turn - 3lo (forward inside edge 3 turn backward outside edge 3 loop). Oh and Zhenia also did a counter after the 3lo so she was doing Counter - 3lo - counter!!! That's crazy! (and Yuzuru will do counter 3A counter in the Chopin 3.0, it seems he likes this move Zhenia owns).

Here is the slow motion of her entry https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2x6lKiyto-8WG5oSVFySnVndjg/view

The whole sequence was done one 1 foot. I draw it out here, sorry for the bad drawing: http://imgur.com/OfMMY5A

I have to say, it is very easy to pick out the move Zhenia does on the ice. Everything she does (aside from her Flutz) is quite clear and easy to see. It is very clean and neat. In short, very clear to the judges. It is very easy to give her good GOE because it's so neat to the eyes. 

2) Shoma's entry before the solo 4lo. This one is very tricky because the edge was unclear. The "expert" who we might all have known claimed that Shoma did a rocker into a counter. Let me explain why it's wrong. Because with rocker/counter, you have to move from one curve to another (see the 2 tumblr posts above explaining the turns). With Shoma Uno, THERE WAS NO move from ONE CURVE TO ANOTHER CURVE.

Here is the slow motion of the whole entry Shoma did https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2x6lKiyto-8N2k2Q3J6QTQtV3c/view

The edge Shoma did after the turn was very unclear, it was like he could not maintain/control the edge. So he was skating half on the flat edge (or maybe outside a bit because it was very unstable) but I would say he aims for the inside edge. Shoma goes into the 4Loop by Forward inside edge 3 turn backward outside edge - Loop (it's the fundamental for all the Loop jump). I drew the whole sequence here. http://imgur.com/c6PuuZQ

In the video of WTT FS, some people might think Shoma did a rocker (from RBO to RFO) but there was no clear curve 1 to curve 2. Unlike, with Evgenia Medvedeva, you can see the curve she does very clearly.

I also asked another coach and we came to a conclusion that, after the RBO turn which is unclear if it's a 3 turn that he failed or a rocker that he failed, Shoma Uno skates on the inside edge, substitutes the left leg and moves to the back on two legs then goes straight into the 4lo. We count it as 3 turn because it's on the same curve. 

3) What baffles me was that person claimed Zhenia Med did a rocker into counter, then later he claimed she did two counter and claimed that Shoma did rocker - counter into 4lo. And I was like: Where is the counter where is the rocker??????? My friend re-watched the video over and over again with the same question. 

My advice: If you have to trust anyone with the tech analysis, please take whatever that comment says as JUST a reference. I would never trust the technical comment from someone who claimed 2 foot move as a counter.

1 hour ago, CupidsBow said:

Shoma has a lot of work to do. I don't think he's planning on adding the 4lz immediately. If he jumps with that clear of a wrong edge and UR in competition then yeah it should be and likely will be called and the points he's get for it would not be worth the effort. He's only training it now. He can't magically fix it over one off season but he can make some progress on it at least. 

He has problems with him jump technique. He's not the only one. I do wish the judges would maybe be a touch harsher so there was more incentive to fix those technique issues, or at least so a good triple was worth more than a wanky quad attempt but it's not like the judges have all the resources and time fans do when they are making calls. They can't comb through hq slow-mos of every jump multiple times to find every error and I guess Shoma's been passable more than he has been obviously UR.

 

Apparently I assure you, some flawed jumps with PR and UR can be obvious in real time if you are sitting in the ice level which the tech specialists have always been... and the hook mark on the ice is very obvious. 

Enough for now, I gotta run...