WinForPooh

Obviously I have no way of knowing but. But what else could it possibly be? Surely he knows what Nathan says! So he's just deliberately saying the opposite and baiting them? Nathan flat out admitted he's not even landing the 4Lo anymore.

Yes but at this point I think Raf is trolling because he's obviously saying the exact opposite of everything Nathan is saying. And he's not a stupid man, right? So this must be some kind of social experiment trolling thing to see how far he can push US media. It must be.

I really like the discussion ^^^ Re pairs being dangerous: They did devalue quad throw jumps to discourage them, didn't they? So they are more than capable of disincentivising really dangerous elements, it's a matter of which elements are dangerous enough and how. Maybe the 4A should also come under that category, risk-reward makes no sense anymore, only somebody who has had that goal forever like Yuzu would even seriously train it anymore. Maybe we haven't had enough time to correlate the quick progression of quads - the accumulation of multiple quads by one skater - and injuries, but there also seems to be no real effort to gather the data by ISU, and that should be done, there are no excuses for not doing that no matter which side of the fence anybody's on. But if Boyang has chronic injury issues, it adds weight to the claim that current correct techniques have been developed more for aesthetics than for safety, because he does have correct technique. If it turns out multiple quads added in quick succession cannot be done without causing serious injury, I don't even know how to think about the ethics of minors making such decisions about themselves. But figure skating is not alone in this quandary. One thing though - I don't think considering Sasha Trusova right out of juniors is unfair because if skaters have such short shelf life, then their optimal year is the second year out of junior where reputation is established and they have not yet been injured for whatever reason. Sasha already had the reputation, so her first year should qualify for this discussion. Also, Plushenko might not have been pushing the boundary with multiple kinds of quads, though I've read that he did jump them in training sometimes, but he did push things technically in other ways, like his quad combos that no longer make sense to maximise rewards under CoP. (I would also question if Nate has got better at spins. His first few competitions this season and last, his spins have been pretty sub-par. Last season his camel was all off, this time his sit spin is off. I also question if we know about all of his injuries. Raf's post-Olympic interview indicated that Nate did have an ankle injury before that, and I will take that with a pinch of salt, but I think generally that camp has been very good at keeping injuries out of the news because it affects judges' perception of components.)

Ah, thank you. I wonder if they have an unofficial recommended limit on number of things to mark for review to save time.

Annnyway, Raf is also talking about quints from Nathan now.

@shanshani I was kind of under the impression that tech panels can only check for UR on elements that judges mark for review. Is it the TP that decides whether to mark something for review? Maybe I got it mixed up.

I don't know about this, because she also said that competitions can't be compared because each technical panel sets a different standard, and that people within technical panels often don't even agree on levels. She seems to be saying all of this as fact but she's actually given no indication that she wants it to be minimised. I haven't seen her make any reference to the things that tech panels would find difficult - rules about what they can slo-mo, what they can review, camera angle, quality of feed, things like that. Just that tech panels are all different and each tech panel has different people in it. If she's saying 'Well, people are different, they see different things' as opposed to 'people on these panels work under severe limitations, the limitations cause mistakes', that does kinda change the implication of what she's saying.

Ah, Raf. https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/11/05/will-nathan-chen-return-to-six-quad-jumps-in-his-free-skate/

They don't strike them out but they don't count towards the factored average in the actual mark awarded column. That's why the SP 3A got perfect GOE, it did have one +4 but it was dropped. But I discovered they don't do that in the TES box we see during the skates for big competitions, the 3A had a 3.89 GOE in that instead of the 4 (factored +5 for 3A) it finally got in the final score. The correction is made after the skate, I guess.

Well, figure skating also discards the top and bottom marks for each element and components. That's why bloc judging is such a thing.

You know something I noticed? Judges carry the impression created by the previous element over to the next one. Like Skate Canada Origin - if that 4Lo hadn't had a 3-turn out of it, I'm pretty sure that 4S wouldn't have been capped at three. But by the time the 3As rolled around, Yuzu had basically nailed the 4T, 3Lz, 4T combo, so the 3A combos, especially the second one, kinda got higher GOE than they would've if judged on the same scale as the one the 4S was judged on. If Yuzu brings the 4A or 4Lz and lands it perfectly as the first jump of his skate, I think even if he lands the rest of his jumps without his usual flow, he might get higher GOEs.