fireovertheice

I leave you also this, if someone would like to comment further about PCS in general : http://www.rockerskating.com/news/2017/11/12/opining-on-2017-nhk-trophy-all-components-are-not-created-equal

Maybe you have already seen this: https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/930106084257337349 Please read also the comments and observations of @Lys, @Joey and Chibura and others (I do not know if she/he ever signed on this forum) and the answers of Jackie Wong to them. Personally I would like to ask him (but I am not on twitter) or to who can/want answer how to recognise this "high quality" crossovers (the charachteristics) and what is the differences in the crossovers of Chen (quoted as example of high quality crossovers) and of the other top 10 men: please, can someone explain to me...?

I posted this also in the thread devoted to fan-made videos, but I post also here to lift up our moods, together with the last bits of infos leaked: I think that for now it is important to send him good vibes hoping in a speed and full recovery for the time of Nationals, as it seems it was stated today:

Whishing him pass as quick as possible through this bad experience and to come back stronger:

Maybe you are right, but listening to him in Italian (also in these long and deep podcasts) he seems sincerely in awe with Yuzuru. From what I can see Ambesi is a little nerdish in his knowledge about the sports he follows as journalist (he praticed also most of them, he once said, also if I do not know at which level) and he loves the excellence and the perfectionism, the FS-nerdish side of Yuzu and, ultimately, his absolute value are ideal to him. P.S. In his podcast with Dolfini, happening now, they are repeating the technical panel of CoC ladies will be the same of OGM men...

Dear @xeyra I have done the counts for Jason Brown as you suggested - also because till saturday I will not have time for new analysis like this. I have updated the table again with the data: https://planethanyu.com/topic/44-general-skating-chat/?do=findComment&comment=115065 If you look at that, you can draw your conclusions and share them with us? And which is the opinion of the others? Looking at protocols, it is clear to me that the judges do not give easily scores above 9 in men's field to who hasn't / don't land quads, also if one has very good skating skills and some difficult transitions, as Jason does (also with holds longer than many others). And again, if I look at the program of Yuzuru, at his numbers on the table, at his jumps layout and at his scores in SS, TR and CO (for now in the 9.50s, 9.70s at Worlds 2017), plus at his speed and ice coverage in comparison to Jason, I would say that the maximum range of 9/9.10s, so similar to the scores given at SC, is right for Brown. The same if you compare him / his scores for these components to Patrick's (SS 9.25, TR 9.18 at last SC). What I don't get is 9.29 in SS and 9.11 in CO for Shoma, but I have already explained it. If you look at the protocols until now, it's also evident, on the contrary, that landing one or more quads don't give you necessarily scores above the 9s in SS, TR and CO: see Alexander Samarin FS at SC (2 quads, from 7.71 to 8.04 > PCS 78.36), Max Aaron FS in CoC (3 quads, from 7.71 to 8.21 > PCS 79.89), Vincent Zhou at CoC (5 quads, from 7.29 to 7.64 > PCS 75.08) and more Boyang Jin (4 quads, from 7.54 to 8.21 > PCS 78.78). At a first look this could seem right, as the PCS scores should be not so tied with TES, if it was not depending by the reputation and whatever else (if Shoma in some compartments seems to me a little bit overscored, Max and Boyang remain a little bit underscored..).

@Xen I am sure I read a question you posed to me about the time of Yuzuru's one foot skating in Trans. I and Trans. II in comparison to the others that now is disappeared by your post: it is so ? Just to know because if not, this means that I have to take a pause from FS and the Planet ! Anyway, on the basis of this your supposed question and of the suggestion of @xeyra I have updated the table posted before: https://planethanyu.com/topic/44-general-skating-chat/?do=findComment&comment=115065 Let me know if in this way is better. So you can realise in an easier way the Yuzuru is skating on one foot for major time lenght in each segment, with the exception of the transition between jumps in the second part, where he is in the average (only Kolyada has a little bit more). This is understandable because this season he is planning to put there the 2 quads + 2 combos and the 2nd axel.

@xeyra you are right in general about the knees and the edges of Shoma vs. those of Nathan, but to me the data I collected should be affect not only the voice "mastery of one foot skating", but also that of surenness of steps and turns (to me its is much easier and sure if you do them on two feet) and if you consider well also the balance, and then knee action, because is a good knee action that give the possibility to skaters to have better flow in turns and steps on one foot. I do think that Shoma does so much crossovers maybe because of his shorter legs, but the number is too high considering this factor too (almost double than Yuzu). So if you score Yuzuru SS in the 9.50's, for that skate 9.29 was too high and would be in the range of 8.75-9,00, IMO. The score for TR was a little better in comparison, but still a litte bit high. I say these things because in the next months competitions also a couple of points will make the difference between the winner and the second (so it was also in the last Worlds!), so to me it is important to understand well this scores - and why they are given so now. You say And this is the problem, discussed also by Ambesi for example. If your TES are in a certain amount/range, PCS follows, without making any distinction among the five parts that form it. On the contrary: they try to mantain the various components in the same range and also the judges in the same "corridor", as we have seen at SC for the ladies (difference in some scores between Sp and Fs). While judges can not have time to evaluate in detail during the competition, I am sure that they know well the content of the programs in term of jumps , elements and transition at a certain level and of the top competitors, and sure they will do for the Olympics. Certainly they do not read the analysis of the fans, but I hope that if sport journalists, fans and also some technicians let them know that also this aspects are monitored well, the maybe would have more attention in what they are doing. Said that, I am happy that Yuzuru uppered his technic content: he knows very well his opponents and the world of FS!.

Yes, you are right, but frankly for the time I have now and for my interests, I am doing only the top men, to understand better - or in some cases to dicuss - some part of the PCS scores that have the possibilty to have a mark more relatable to something countable/objective and not so subjective, such as IN and PE. I do think now, for example, that we can say without any bias that the scores for SS (9.29) and TR (8.89) at SC Canada for Shoma's FS have been way to high. They would have been in the range of those of Nathan at CoR (SS: 8.96, TR: 8.57). Seen the program as a whole, I think that also that 9.11 for Co (8.89 for Nathan) was too high, but I know that is subject is more debatable. And I know that is related to the values and performaces of the skaters in that competion too, but really...

Nop: if you make the count of the percentage on the total. Yuzu skates on one foot in total 56 secs., in his StSq the steps, turns and spiral on one foot amount to the 41.96% on the total 56 secs. i.e. in the StSq he skates on one foot for 23,49 secs. For Kolyada and Shoma the time of one foot skating in the StSq is easier to count: 50% on 40 secs. total, i.e. 20 secs on one foot during their StSq. For Nathan, if one make the same count, one foot skating in StSq amount to 19,99 secs, while Boyang's time is around 14 secs (but I think that his FS at CoC had various problems as he said and we will see in the next comp). So the average is 20 secs. for almost all the others, and Yuzuru is skating on one foot 3.50 secs more than them (2,5%+). In general, also the lenght of the StSq is not so much different among these skaters, with the exception of Yuzu, as usal :D: Yuzuru 48 secs. ca. Kolyada 40 secs ca. Nathan 41 secs. ca. Shoma 41 secs. ca. Boyang 41 secs ca. This is because Yuzuru takes lesser time to prepare the jumps and sometimes he is also faster in rotation, so he "spares" seconds that he uses for connecting better the elements and also give us more beautiful and difficult coreographic movements. It is amazing how he can take speed with few stokes or how he can sometimes jump quads/3A with so no much speed: this is his genius, as once Kurt said. Probably his values, in transitions and one foot skating are more closer to those of Fernandez and Chan (that I haven't calculated in detail yet), but we have to remember that they have an easier layout in term of jump. So what Yuzuru is planning to do this year with his FS is really amazing and extraordinary. Let's cross our fingers for the next comps! To conclude: your observation is right @xeyra and I will take you suggestion and I will include those data in the spreadsheet for better clarity.

Your spreadsheets are awesome ! (I didn't see all of them before, but only that about Yuzuru, that is so huge, and so well done ). I will do this kind of analysis only for the FS of the top men (1 comp) and then the six qualifyers for the GPF (av. on 2 comps). It depends by the rythm of my work, that usually give me more free time just in this period of the year. So, I do not know if they are enough for your spreadsheet about GPF, where I have seen you are tracking all the skaters and taking in consideration SP & FS, rightly so. However, if you think that those data could be useful and/or interesting to add there, there's no problem for me. I had already set a spreadsheet with also other data and also tried some graphics: so, if you are interested in, we can also speak about it in a more detailed way via pm.

As it has been said by others, I do not think that there is a problem of backloading or of an unbalanced program as the structure and the coreography have an unity and an original idea at their basis to interpret the music cuts of the music chosen (see the ISU defintion for this part of the scores for Composition) and as long as the skater is able to perform it well all through its lenght. It is the same problem of the number and intricacy of transitions, or the number of quads. In my opinion it depends not so much by their number or distribution, but in how well they are or could be performed and in how well the fit all together and with the music. And here the ability of the coreographer and of the skaters are of much relevance. Just these days while counting the transitions and crossovers I looked also at their distribution in the programs of men and this led me to observe better also their structure. I will post here in a first table the first results of these counts and observations on the men's FS at the competions of GP of this season until now (I will do something better in a spreadsheet with the average of the two competitions before the GPF). In the % time of one foot skating on the total time of one foot skating (values in the first row) I didn't report the few seconds at the beginning of the programs, because they are a couple to four seconds max for all skaters. With "Trans. I" meant the transitions between jumps in the first part of the program, and so with "Trans. II" those of the second part. Type of data Y.H./CoR J.F./IdF M.K./CoC N.C./CoR B.J./CoC S.U./SC J.B./SC Jumps layout 3* quads 1 4T+3T 1 + (1) trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb 2 quads 1 4S+2T 2 trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb 1 3F+L+3S 2 quads 1 4T+3T 2 trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb 1 3Lz+L+3S 3* quads 1 4Lz+3T 1 4T+2T+2Lo 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+comb 3 quads 1 4T+comb 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+L+3S 1 3Lz+3T 3 quads 1 4T+2T 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+L+3F 1 3S+3T 1 quad 2 trips 1 3A, 1 2A 1 3A+comb 1 3Lz+L+3S 1 3Lz+2T Tot. time 1f.skating 56 secs 37 secs 40 secs 37 secs 42 secs 40 secs 49.50 secs Nr. 1f. revolutions 35 34 28 25 28 24 34 Nr. crossovers 28 29 30 44 36 54 38 % 1f.sk. Trans. I 21.42 9.45 12.50 21.60 17.85 15.00 18.18 Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. I 13.60 secs 3.5 secs 5 secs 7.99 secs 7.49 secs 6 secs 9 secs % 1f.sk. Trans. II 12.50 18.91 22.50 21.60 16.66 17.50 18.18* Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. II 7 secs 7 secs 9 secs 7.99 secs 6.99 secs 7 secs 9 secs* % 1f.sk. StSq 41.96 27.00 50.00 54.05 33.30 50.00 40.40 Tot. time 1f.sk. StSq 23.49 secs 10 secs 20 secs 19.99 secs 13.99 secs 20 secs 20 secs % 1f.sk. ChSq 21.42 32.43 8.75 2.70 27.30 5.00 22.20 Tot. time 1f.sk. ChSq 11.99 secs 12 secs 3.5 secs 1 sec. 11.46 secs 2 secs 11 secs SS / TR scores 9.54 / 9.18 9.43 / 9.07 8.89 / 8.57 8.96 / 8.57 8.21 / 7.54 9.29 / 8.89 8.86 / 9.04 PCS scores 94.38 92.36 87.14 88.40 78.78 91.16 90.66 As you can see in some elements and in some part of the program the difference of Yuzuru and the others is evident. He skates more (a lot more...) than the others on one foot, and also changing direction on one foot more than the others. Nevertheless, he is one of the fastest skaters and with one of the most complex and difficult programs if terms of jumps layout. What is amazing is also the well balanced distribution of one foot steps and transitions throughout the program of Yuzu. The value of the first set is equal of the last one (a sort di circular structure), with a strong part in the StSq that anyway leave energy not only to jump in the second part, but also to give a strong and rich performance in the Coreographic Sequence. This led me to look better the Choreo Sequences of the others: I invite you to so the same, if you do not have done it. I have to say that the ChoreoSequences of Nathan and of Shoma are substantially a Spread Eagle (hold 2 secs) in the first case and a Cantilever (hold 2 secs) in the second plus one step or turn and crossovers. Something better Kolyada, while Jin is the only one to try to do more steps and turns in a real sequence. In the ChSq Yuzuru not only does steps and turns on one foot and the Hydroblade on one foot (hold 2 secs), but also the Ina Bauer (hold 2 secs). I know that part of these elements are rewarded also in TES and with GOE. But if we speak of balance and of unity of the programs, we have to look not just to the distribution of the jumps, but also of all the others elements (see for example the spins: mostly at the end of the program for Kolyada and Chen) and transitions, or the lenght, the pattern and the complexity of the choreographic sequence. You can see here how the coreographers and the skaters have build those programs to follow their idea of the program, but also to highlight the strenghts and to to "hide" the weaknesses of the skaters, as it is right to be. It would be interesting if someone could try to count and to analyze the programs of the top ladies (I really can't :)). Sorry for the long post . Edit. 1: on the basis of some of your observations and questions, I added the total/absolute time of one foot skating for the different parts of the program (Trans. I, Trans. II, StSq and ChSq) under the percentage on the total amount. I hope it is clearer in this way. If not, let me know. * Jason Brown have a different distribution of spins, that break transitions and jumps/elements in 3 parts: I reunited the 2nd and the 3rd part in Trans. II to make the comparison with the others. Edit. 2: I added Javier after IdF

Now everything seems working fine to me: thanks a lot !

Yes, I know you are right: thank you for your concern. For the possible comment about my free time, I do not care: everyone invest her/his free time as she/he is pleased As I said, I did it just to understand some things and I want to share the data just because I hope that they will be useful to some others. If not, it has been interesting for me anyway. For the bias as "Fanyu", I would like that they could show me where and how, because I am just counting things that are visible and countable to all, not discussing interpretation and so forth, where opinions can be also very different. About the opposite criticism, i.e. math and number of transitions or crossovers are not important because they do not account the artistry and whatever, I would say that is true. But those numbers I am putting together are relevant for the marks of SS, and TR and in part the Composition, while artistry has to be scored in IN and PE. And because to score SS, TR and CO you have to take in account aspects that in part are countable in time, in space and quantity/quality, why not do it ? In some way also the judges have to have an idea of the variety, quantity and quality of the transitions (TR), the amount of use of one foot skating and multidirectional skating, or the change of speed (SS), of the pattern and ice coverage, or use of space (CO). How they do it?

It is working well on my Iphone, though....

Mee too, almost some hours nowe. I can navigate some topics arriving in the sections through the posts or notifications in my profile only. What is happening? And how can I do to fix the problem? I use firefox as browser.

@Xen No, I haven't, but as I wrote somewhere before I have a little project with some other people of the forum to give more visibility to these data. We will see. However, I think that Max and Angelo already knows things like that as well as the judges working for ISU at the international level. If I realised better just looking at the feet ot these athlets for some hours in my free time in the last week, I imagine that for people working in the sector (and in majoity ex skaters) there are all aspects very obvious and clear. That's why also for Yuzuru FS of last season (the beautiful H&L), Ambesi in his commentary of Worlds said that in Helsinki we had seen a program with a complexity in transition and a variety in changes of edges that was never seen before, more associated with the most difficult technical content. He saw all this, shouting - rightful so - that the realisation of that clean program was a huge accomplishment for the discipline, and for the sport in general. I have already looked at CoR Seimei and counted TR, elements and crossovers and it is also a slightly better than H&L, if possible, and it would be really magnificent and without equal if skated clean. Yuzuru and Shae Lynn working together are genius and they are producing incredible works of art. I agree with you, also if - sad to say because I like him - this year Boyang seems to me not advanced so much compare to the others in PCS also if clearly trying, but I have to look and to count better his programs at CoC, to be honest. If I had to rank those four for the part of PCS concerning SS and TR looking at their feet, I would put Kolyada in first, followed closely by Nathan, then by Shoma and Boyang. The best knees are those of Kolyada and Uno though. Looking at their upper body I like the posture and the use of the arms of Nathan the most, but also those of Kolyada, traditional russian style, are very good; Shoma is using arms and head very much to project, and for someone this is working, also if to me it is not appropriate for each program and every piece of music (he has the same use and IN also for his EX...). In this compartement Boyang has still a lot of work to do IMO. For all the rest of what you said, I am 100% in agreement with you. Pity that it seems that judges have sometimes different ideas. And this without speaking of GOE for TES ...

Technical panel at CoC 2017, Ladies - Short & Free Program: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpchn2017/SEG003OF.HTM If this is true, I just checked the previous partecipation of the Italian technical controller, Ms. Raffaella Locatelli: at CoC she was also with Konstantin Kostin, that was with her in the technical panel for the men FS at Boston Worlds in 2016 too > Worlds 2016 - Men Free Program: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1516/wc2016/SEG002OF.HTM ; they were again together in the tech panel at the European Champ. 2017 for men > http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/ec2017/SEG002OF.HTM Previously Ms. Locatelli has been also in the technical panel for men at Worlds 2014. This year she was also Lombardia Trophy 2017, but in the panel for Ladies and Pairs: http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/challenger-series-3/protocols-59/15081-cs-ita-lombardia-trophy-protocol/file Mr. Kostin (USA) was also in the techical panel for Ladies Free skating at JO 2017: http://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2017-18-6/international-4/protocols-53/15106-japanopen2017-protocol/file Mr. Ricardo Olaivarreta (Mexico), was also in the tech panel of the ladies at Worlds 2017: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/wc2017/SEG003OF.HTM One of the last assignment of Ms. Beth Crane before Coc this year has been the JGP at Egna, Italy, as technical controller for the ladies: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/jgpita2017/jgpita2017_protocol.pdf? She resulted also among the Canadian officials (not judging) at this year Skate Canada: https://skatecanada.ca/2017/10/regina-ready-to-welcome-skaters-from-around-the-world-for-2017-skate-canada-international/ To me it seems more probable Locatelli and Kostin, who have already be in tech panel for men, than the others two. We will see (but Ambesi usually knows well what he says...).

I would like to know from you all if you have looked at Kolyada FS at CoR and at CoC, and if following you there was so much difference in SS and in transitions in the two comps. I know that Mikhail PCS at CoR have been inflated, but to me there was not so much difference in those compartments in the two performances, while I read the opinion of others saying otherwise (i.e. that today his transitions were lesser / simpler). I noted also that today at CoC the scores for Kolyada FS in SS, IN and TR were the same or similar to those of Nathan Chen FS at CoR. What do you think about it ? And more what do you think if we compare those two sets of scores with those of Shoma at Skate Canada (also taking in account the fact that is difficult to compare scores of different comps an so forth...)? Nathan Chen FS at CoR - protocols/jump content: 4 quads, single or in combination (2 of them 4Lz) + two 3A (both with - GOEs) single and in combination + one 2T(pop) + one 3Lz - protocols/StSq3 - by my count: skating on one foot 37 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 25, crossovers 44 - protocols/scores: SS= 8.96, TR=8.57, CO=8.89 Mikhail Kolyada FS at CoC - protocols/jump content: only 2 quads (with the fall on the 4Lz) + one 2S (pop) + two 3A (one popped) single and in combination + two 3Lz combination + one 3Lo - protocols/StSq4 - by my count: skating on one foot 41 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 28, crossovers 30 - protocols/scores: SS= 8.89, TR=8.57, CO=8.82 Shoma Uno FS at SC - protocols/jump content: 4 quads, single or in combination (1 of them 4Lo, 1 of them with -GOE such as the 4T, also <) + two 3A single and in combination + one 3S in combination + one 3Lo (with -GOE) - protocols/StSq3 - by my count: skating on one foot 40 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 24, crossovers 54 - protocols/scores: SS= 9.29, TR=8.89, CO=9.11 I know that for scoring SS and TR there are a lot of other factors / elements to be considered besides one-foot skating, difficult turns and steps and multi directional skating (see here: http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU program-component-chart_sandp-and-id_08-16.pdf ), but I do think that in most of these other aspects those three skaters are not so far from each other (see speed and acceleration, flow and glide, continuity of movements etc...). What do you think about it (without bashing anyone...)? Thanks in advance for your answers and your opinion P.S. Also at CoR were PCS of Kolyada were inflated he received 9.07 in SS and 8.75 in TR, 9.00 in CO, so always lesser than Shoma at SC.

Ehhh..@murieleirum, maybe for Nathan they had a vision...or they counted something as step that in my view do not seem a step at all...but maybe other, sure more expert than me, can say something about it ? Nice to look at the protocols for these jumps: - Yuzuru Hanyu, 4Lo (SP, COR) = given with an < and GOE -2.06 (no comment ...) - Nathah Chen, 4F (SP, COR) = GOE -1.03 - Shoma Uno, 4L (SP, SC) = GOE + 2.29 You can find interesting things about this subject also here: https://twitter.com/SkatingProtocol/status/924257880571891718 P.S. Pay attention in picking other tweets in that account...

@Xen your observation is very pertinent and - sadly - correct. If we take out those 20 or little more secs of jumping and 50 secs of spinning, that are sort of uncuttable because of the score, it is clear that the cut will fall on steps and transitions, a maybe the longer ones (yuzu's hydroblade at COR was around 3.5 secs and the Ina Bauer was around 2.3 secs) or the complexer ones (usually with more than 1 sec on one foot). About the time spent in a program in transitions (turns and steps), and its meaning in a program, it is interesting this short interview with Lori Nichol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32I2aQOuQ0 To note > It is a quite "old" video (2009): see the difference in the timing devote to jump in Chan FS at the time (she says around 8 secs jumping; the time of spinning is not so much different: 45 secs) with the numbers we have seen for these four competition of some of the top men. Of course, it is because of the increasing number of quads. See also what she says about transitions: "(they) are where you shows your blade skills, basically the foundation of skating, how deep your edges are, what kind of lean you have, what kind of (translator says: me...) action you have, and also show your integrity with performance and interpretation, because can you do that complexity in time to the music with great body line. (....) You get the transition mark based on the complexity that you are doing and how close it is to the element, but overall you should be doing it because there's constant movement in music, it never stops and so we must appear with it with the interpretation of our transition, that's why not just (for) the points". It is true that rules from 2009 are a little bit changed, but I thinks that this sort of description still fits with nowadays PCS: should be send this video to the judges before each competition ?

@Sombreuil I love rhythmic gymnastics too :). As for the mathematicians of your family, try to convince them saying what is the reality: that music, dance, FS and RG are all based on mathematics! Without the possibility to count the lenght in time of the sounds and of the movements, there would be none of such things. Present them the thing as this: FS it is just a very beautiful way to count, freeing your soul and your mind at the same time. . And if it is done by beautiful and charismatic young people ...also more.

Yes, at this point I think so: I am waiting for CoC There is the possibility I'll develop this thing a little bit further with the help of some people of the forum and not, more expert than me in figure skating and other things. We will see. For now it has been interesting enough for me to look - several times !!! - and to count these things. You are forced to note a lot of details. And again yes, the two aspects are complementary or - at least - go together. It would be interesting to count also the change of direction of blade and/or edges in the one-foot skating time in passes and transitions, or to distinguish the more difficult ones, but I have not time fot this. I will use the little time I can to check in more than one competition to have a reasonable average.

To change the subject just for a moment and to continue the observations on "numbers" in the long/free program of Yuzuru and the others top men (and without any kind of negativity towards the others...). Before I have counted the timing of one foot skating in their FS as posted in the general Yuzuru chat: https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110593 https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110604 (but I have already seen that it is a work to do on average in different competition, because there could be some differences: so if you are interested in this, stay tuned...). Now I have counted also the numbers of their crossovers. Here you are the first result of counting: Yuzuru FS: 28 crossovers (COR) Javier FS: 34 crossovers (AC) Nathan FS: 44 crossovers (COR) Shoma FS: 54 crossovers (SC)

@meoima said: I cannot agree more. But I do not know if is only the age to play a part here. It's a fact of sensibility to the music, the type of reactivity you have to the music in sense of what it can make emote and resonate in you with the its pure sound, and to make transfer these feelings to the movements of your body, here enhanced by the use fo the blades on the ice. As a ballerina myself in the past, I can say that you have or you don't have it. And I have to say that very few skaters I have seen, also among the better ones, have it. That's way is important to me that Yuzuru for the FS in his senior career wanted always to choose the music for his FS. And also that he took Chopin so long, because he said that after the first season he began to feel and to interpret better the music. These pieces of music and these programs can make click things in him that give him the capability to give us always very empatethic and charismatic performances, also when he make some errors. That's also why at the present I am not touched by any means by the perfomances of Uno (SP) or Chen (FS), also when they don't have had major errors. You can feel it that they are skating to the music and the programmes that others chose for them, they haven't made them 'theirs' yet. Maybe for Yuzuru the earthquake was a catalyst to wider his sensibility in respect to the music, but the natural predisposition has to be already there. This for me is 'musicality' - and not just the capacity to follow the rythm of the music with the movements of your body, such as some commentators seems to suggest and/or intend.