Team we're fewer but still good!

[OmNom]

I don't think I've seen this here but it showed up on Twitter

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTtVyAqFKTO/

 

So Javier is working on "more quads" (if someone who knows Spanish would be a darling to properly translate this, it'd be lovely) but this is not a priority, he considers his programs are constructed well in terms of jumps? I get that from it. Interesting in any case, frankly I do think this means he's working on a 4Lo and it depends how it'll go, in terms of including it so he's cautious.

 

I personally believe at this point it's wise for him to upgrade to a 4Lo. To be a serious contender for a medal he can't play it safe and rely on the mercy of other skater messing up more than he does

[xeyra]

Yatagarasu said:

I don't think I've seen this here but it showed up on Twitter

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTtVyAqFKTO/

 

So Javier is working on "more quads" (if someone who knows Spanish would be a darling to properly translate this, it'd be lovely) but this is not a priority, he considers his programs are constructed well in terms of jumps? I get that from it. Interesting in any case, frankly I do think this means he's working on a 4Lo and it depends how it'll go, in terms of including it so he's cautious.

It's pretty much what you wrote, no better translation possible.

[Yatagarasu]

It's pretty much what you wrote, no better translation possible.

 

Ah thank you, thank you! Italian lets me understand enough (and I kind of really like Spanish cinema) but I am never too sure about it :grin:

 

Then yes, I stay by my first post. I do think he's opening the door for a possible new quad here, the 4Lo. Doing an LP with 2 4S and 2 4T makes no sense, so it has to be it; he's not sure if it's all going to be possible so he's being careful about it all. I do wonder how it'll all work out for him and if the decision to not include it this past season will turn out to be crucial in the end.

[Joey]

It's pretty much what you wrote, no better translation possible.

 

Ah thank you, thank you! Italian lets me understand enough (and I kind of really like Spanish cinema) but I am never too sure about it :grin:

 

Then yes, I stay by my first post. I do think he's opening the door for a possible new quad here, the 4Lo. Doing an LP with 2 4S and 2 4T makes no sense, so it has to be it; he's not sure if it's all going to be possible so he's being careful about it all. I do wonder how it'll all work out for him and if the decision to not include it this past season will turn out to be crucial in the end.

 

Mmmmhhhmmmm... I'm not sure about that. I'd think too that he's talking about the 4Lo (oh-hohoho, someone from team Brian training a new quad for the Oly season? The stuff Brian previously didn't like and all that?*cough**eyes 4Lz*), but Javi also gave long interviews about how he is planing this super amazing game changing new combo of... 3Lz3T3Lo. Which would give him around a whopping whole point more in BV. So I'm not really sure what to think about this here. Hoping it's the 4Lo though and that he'll get it into his repertoire for next season.

[Fay]

 

Mmmmhhhmmmm... I'm not sure about that. I'd think too that he's talking about the 4Lo (oh-hohoho, someone from team Brian training a new quad for the Oly season? The stuff Brian previously didn't like and all that?*cough**eyes 4Lz*), but Javi also gave long interviews about how he is planing this super amazing game changing new combo of... 3Lz3T3Lo. Which would give him around a whopping whole point more in BV. So I'm not really sure what to think about this here. Hoping it's the 4Lo though and that he'll get it into his repertoire for next season.

 

Wow, if he can rotate that combination, he's certainly welcome!

Not sure what to expect, though.

[beki]

I've been reflecting on Javi's season—and one undeniable thing is that he was playing it a bit safe with his choice of programs. I wondered why he wasn't stretching himself this year. But maybe he wanted to have an easy, secure base to add something that wasn't quite ready. Perhaps he has been practicing new elements this whole time. The challenge is that he must project confidence in what he's already doing. It's not like he and Brian will come out and say they're under pressure and vulnerable. In my opinion, we have been taking Brian too much at face value, while he is actually politicking.

 

I would love it so much if Javi and Patrick are able to bring out new quads and beat the kids at their own game. Here's hoping.

[Yatagarasu]

beki, nah, he hasn't been practicing the 4Lo this whole season. I think they genuinely thought 2+3, clean, with his rep would be enough. And it would have been actually, had he gone clean. But his season as a whole hasn't actually been all that great, even with no change in his tech.

Patrick is going to add a second quad to his SP no doubt but I have great doubts about that 4F. We'll see.

 

Joey said:

Mmmmhhhmmmm... I'm not sure about that. I'd think too that he's talking about the 4Lo (oh-hohoho, someone from team Brian training a new quad for the Oly season? The stuff Brian previously didn't like and all that?*cough**eyes 4Lz*), but Javi also gave long interviews about how he is planing this super amazing game changing new combo of... 3Lz3T3Lo. Which would give him around a whopping whole point more in BV. So I'm not really sure what to think about this here. Hoping it's the 4Lo though and that he'll get it into his repertoire for next season.

 

I ... actually forgot about that one. Well, you do have a point there

I'm certainly hoping it's the 4Lo too but then yeah, very good point. Who knows. I think it may also prove difficult as it's not a small change to go to one new quad plus one extra quad in the FS so even if he truly wants to, it may not be doable.

[beki]

Lol, I guess I have a wild imagination! In every situation, I find it funny when people say "just go clean!" as if that's a matter of course. The men's difficulty is already too high for that and has been for years. Water down to 2010 levels and then you'll see more clean skates. Yuzuru's plan is so much better: raise the average.

[xeyra]

The thing I find interesting about Javi is that he's been doing a 3-quad FS since 2012! Has his layout changed that much since 2012, aside from adding a second 3A in 2016?

 

Edit: And how many times has he gone clean on his FS before?

[Fay]

Er... he might have done in 2012 GPF. I'm not that sure though...

[Joey]

beki, I 100% agree with that. Going clean is freakin' hard with the content these guys have by now. It's not going to work out for any of them to just go clean throughout the whole season or something.

 

I ... actually forgot about that one. Well, you do have a point there :smile:

I'm certainly hoping it's the 4Lo too but then yeah, very good point. Who knows. I think it may also prove difficult as it's not a small change to go to one new quad plus one extra quad in the FS so even if he truly wants to, it may not be doable.

 

Maybe keep it 3 quads but 3 different ones?

4Lo

4T

3A2T

---

4S

3A3T

3Lz3T3Lo

3F

3S

Changes: 4S --> 4Lo; 2T --> 3T; lo-3S --> 3T3Lo. So basically, around 9.5 higher, isn't it? (Yes, I'm too lazy right now to get out a calculator xD)

That wouldn't be too bad, but I don't know if it would be all that easier than bringing in a 4th quad. It's 3 types of quads either way, but no new combo, and Javi doesn't seem too struggle with stamina (IMO; at least)

[beki]

(off-topic, re: clean skates) The quad race will be the main theme for Olympic coverage—and that might be a good thing if it finally gets casual viewers out of 6.0 thinking. It's strange how we are all still subject to it, judges, fans and coaches as well. Not that I don't love the magic of a clean skate, but I don't expect it every time. I always think Yuzuru is purely an IJS skater and it's hard to imagine him under 6.0. In that awful, tragic skate at CoC, he found the hidden exploit in the system: as long as he rotated, he could get away with falling. It was very gamer of him.

[xeyra]

Maybe keep it 3 quads but 3 different ones?

4Lo

4T

3A2T

---

4S

3A3T

3Lz3T3Lo

3F

3S

Changes: 4S --> 4Lo; 2T --> 3T; lo-3S --> 3T3Lo. So basically, around 9.5 higher, isn't it? (Yes, I'm too lazy right now to get out a calculator xD)

That wouldn't be too bad, but I don't know if it would be all that easier than bringing in a 4th quad. It's 3 types of quads either way, but no new combo, and Javi doesn't seem too struggle with stamina (IMO; at least)

This seems like a really weird choice of layout because it would not only add 1 new quad and 1 new combo, but would also shift a second combo to the second half.

 

Just for curiosity's sake, though, the BV of his original layout is 95.13 and this proposed possible layout would be 101.24, so a difference of 6.11 in BV for quite a hefty change.

 

A layout with an added 4Lo and 4 quads, though, could be something like: 4Lo 4S-3T 4T // 4S 3A-2T 3F-1Lo-3S 3A 3Lz which would be 102.50 BV (102.55 if he traded the 4T with the 3A2T's position) but that would require training for four quads, and the only thing he'd need to learn anew would be the 4Lo.

[Joey]

This seems like a really weird choice of layout because it would not only add 1 new quad and 1 new combo, but would also shift a second combo to the second half.

 

Just for curiosity's sake, though, the BV of his original layout is 95.13 and this proposed possible layout would be 101.24, so a difference of 6.11 in BV for quite a hefty change.

 

A layout with an added 4Lo and 4 quads, though, could be something like: 4Lo 4S-3T 4T // 4S 3A-2T 3F-1Lo-3S 3A 3Lz which would be 102.50 BV (102.55 if he traded the 4T with the 3A2T's position) but that would require training for four quads, and the only thing he'd need to learn anew would be the 4Lo.

 

Yep, that 3 quad layout is not a good layout strategically in my point of view... but Javi seems to think very differently then me, and in the end, he has to go with whatever seems to work for him. If he has that -3T3Lo combo down already, it might still make sense to go for that next season over 4 quads, which he might have never practiced until this point. The point is, there is not much BV increase with a 4th quad if you can maximize the 3 quad version (similar to discussion regarding Yuzu and 4 quads vs 5).

[xeyra]

This seems like a really weird choice of layout because it would not only add 1 new quad and 1 new combo, but would also shift a second combo to the second half.

 

Just for curiosity's sake, though, the BV of his original layout is 95.13 and this proposed possible layout would be 101.24, so a difference of 6.11 in BV for quite a hefty change.

 

A layout with an added 4Lo and 4 quads, though, could be something like: 4Lo 4S-3T 4T // 4S 3A-2T 3F-1Lo-3S 3A 3Lz which would be 102.50 BV (102.55 if he traded the 4T with the 3A2T's position) but that would require training for four quads, and the only thing he'd need to learn anew would be the 4Lo.

 

Yep, that 3 quad layout is not a good layout strategically in my point of view... but Javi seems to think very differently then me, and in the end, he has to go with whatever seems to work for him. If he has that -3T3Lo combo down already, it might still make sense to go for that next season over 4 quads, which he might have never practiced until this point. The point is, there is not much BV increase with a 4th quad if you can maximize the 3 quad version (similar to discussion regarding Yuzu and 4 quads vs 5).

Yeah, it would depend on whether that combo is something he has been training seriously, so he could focus more on the 4Lo. 100+ BV would place him a bit higher in the BV race compared to where he is now, which would be good for him, but as has been said before, higher BV isn't everything. However, it might help make sure you're not TOO out-BV'ed to the point that you're dependent on someone else making mistakes.