General Skating Chat

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Nah, Shoma is likely going to add the 4Lz at some point, since he mentioned it in his post-FS interview. So I believe he may well try to go for a 6-quad FS by the end. We can use Nathan's speculative 7-quad layout from the skeleton of what he did at US Classic, but I'm also keeping the 6-quad layout possibility open.

 

Lol. Watch how Boyang becomes the only youngster trying to become all-round instead of only aiming at winning gold through all means necessary - and the one who was once the number one in technique, keeps his 4 quads and improves as a skater overall. Magic. 

 

Honestly, we are harsh when we talk about Nathan having no chance to be more artistic with 6-7 quads, but if Shoma takes the same route? He's gonna get the same treatment. I want to be faithful and hope the best for them, which means hoping that they get balanced programs and nice interpretation of them - but they are not giving me a lot of chance to do it LOL. 

 

19 minutes ago, Fay said:

Sorry, why are we so obsessed about food today? 

 

Stress eating/Stress cooking. Not knowing how to pass time until the first Senior Men practice at ACI. 

[Xen]

6 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Nah, Shoma is likely going to add the 4Lz at some point, since he mentioned it in his post-FS interview. So I believe he may well try to go for a 6-quad FS by the end. We can use Nathan's speculative 7-quad layout from the skeleton of what he did at US Classic, but I'm also keeping the 6-quad layout possibility open. Though Nathan will probably YOLO his way across the season. 

Nate will definitely have 4lz and 4flip, the 4sal and 4loop have yolo potential?

[xeyra]

16 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Honestly, we are harsh when we talk about Nathan having no chance to be more artistic with 6-7 quads, but if Shoma takes the same route? He's gonna get the same treatment. I want to be faithful and hope the best for them, which means hoping that they get balanced programs and nice interpretation of them - but they are not giving me a lot of chance to do it LOL. 

 

Nathan is definitely going for 6 quads, possibly 7 with the 4Lo if his stamina holds. But Shoma's decisions I've no idea at this point. In the beginning he talked about how adding two new quads would be reckless but now he speaks of the 4S as a quad he may trust, so the 4Lz may yet happen too. And unless he replaces one of his tried and true 4Ts for one of the new quads, to have both 4S and 4Lz in a program means 6 quads. I think Shoma may try the 4Lz at Japan Open because it's a competition that doesn't count for anything and he'll decide based on what the tech panel calls there. 

[Sombreuil]

1 hour ago, Fay said:

Sorry, why are we so obsessed about food today? 

Comfort eating - and it's Tuesday and the sun isn't over the yardarm here so I can't hit the gin.

 

if anyone felt like doing a BV table I'd be grateful - I'm practically innumerate

[GreatLakesGal]

20 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I don't doubt Yuzu has thousands of Canadian fans  it's just that some competitions are more strict than others, and Skate Canada has never been forgiving with Yuzu's mistakes, which were costly in PCS more than TCS, sometimes. Also, since it's been 9 years since Yuzu came to Italy, I'm now very curious to know how Italy will treat him at Worlds. Of course, it will greatly depend on his performance, but since they treated Shoma royally this time around, I wonder if he's gonna have the same treatment! 

 

Skate Canada is known for its "sketchy" judging and I'm delighted Yuzu is not competing at that event this year. As for Canadian fans, I'm sure many do like him but much of the cheering he receives at Canadian events comes from his non-Canadian fans who travel there just to see him skate. I think it's pretty obvious from online fandom that there are many Canadians who really resent him for winning the OGM instead of Patrick. And Brian Orser has admitted in interviews that he does get blowback from Canadians for his coaching of non-Canadians.

[Valkyria]

2 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Lol. Watch how Boyang becomes the only youngster trying to become all-round instead of only aiming at winning gold through all means necessary - and the one who was once the number one in technique, keeps his 4 quads and improves as a skater overall. Magic. 

 

Honestly, we are harsh when we talk about Nathan having no chance to be more artistic with 6-7 quads, but if Shoma takes the same route? He's gonna get the same treatment. I want to be faithful and hope the best for them, which means hoping that they get balanced programs and nice interpretation of them - but they are not giving me a lot of chance to do it LOL. 

 

 

Agree about Boyang. He seems to me the more level-headed and far-sighted of the youngsters right now re: pacing themselves, and I believe he's playing the long game. His tech is very good already, and if he keeps taking the time to work on his skills and all around performance, he's due to be a strong gold contender in the following seasons. Of course, since his PCS are still kept much lower than the others because reasons (Shoma does deserve higher, but is there really that much of a difference vs Nathan? lol) he actually has the incentive to work on those. Funny how that works 

 

 

And about Shoma going for 6 quads, yeah, his everything else is going to suffer too if he ends up going that route, definitely. Considering that his Turandot especially still needs quite a lot of work there per what we saw at Lombardia... not good news. But then again, per Lombardia as well, they're already giving him very high PCS for an emptier performance, so.

 

I'll very happily eat my hat if Nathan or Shoma manage to pull a nice, complete program with that kind of tech content, but I doubt it :___D

[Yatagarasu]

11 minutes ago, Valkyria said:

I'll very happily eat my hat if Nathan or Shoma manage to pull a nice, complete program with that kind of tech content, but I doubt it :___D

 

It's actually a question that's sort of bigger than Nathan or Shoma, which is can you even pull off a complete program with 6 quads, never mind 7? 
I think that at 5 already there's going to be trouble, never mind 6. And I count Yuzuru and Patrick here too among people who I think would have trouble pulling of a complete program with that many quads. I know Patrick believes that the balance is at 3 but at the same time, I think Yuzuru has proven last season that 4 were equally possible. I guess we're left to wait, not too long, to see how 5 works out. The music is pretty good to stretch this perhaps but again, I don't think 6 or higher is possible, no matter who it is. Unless they're doing 4-4 combos, which nobody is currently.

[Valkyria]

4 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

It's actually a question that's sort of bigger than Nathan or Shoma, which is can you even pull off a complete program with 6 quads, never mind 7? 
I think that at 5 already there's going to be trouble, never mind 6. And I count Yuzuru and Patrick here too among people who I think would have trouble pulling of a complete program with that many quads. I know Patrick believes that the balance is at 3 but at the same time, I think Yuzuru has proven last season that 4 were equally possible. I guess we're left to wait, not too long, to see how 5 works out. The music is pretty good to stretch this perhaps but again, I don't think 6 or higher is possible, no matter who it is. Unless they're doing 4-4 combos, which nobody is currently.

 

Agreed. We'll see how 5 goes for Yuzuru, but already we're talking about an outlier: Yuzuru is not representative of the average top skater, which is why he might actually pull it off. 4 seems doable for the right skater, but not for everyone either. The moment we start talking about 6-7, skating ability is no longer the limit, but stamina. We all know that to have enough energy to even attempt these monster layouts everything else is going to suffer, if not disappear altogether. That's just human limitations at work.

[xeyra]

10 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

It's actually a question that's sort of bigger than Nathan or Shoma, which is can you even pull off a complete program with 6 quads, never mind 7? 
I think that at 5 already there's going to be trouble, never mind 6. And I count Yuzuru and Patrick here too among people who I think would have trouble pulling of a complete program with that many quads. I know Patrick believes that the balance is at 3 but at the same time, I think Yuzuru has proven last season that 4 were equally possible. I guess we're left to wait, not too long, to see how 5 works out. The music is pretty good to stretch this perhaps but again, I don't think 6 or higher is possible, no matter who it is. Unless they're doing 4-4 combos, which nobody is currently.

 

Well, apparently both Nathan and Shoma could try out some -4T combos, since one apparently has a 4Lz4T and the other has been seen doing 3A4T. But that seems an unlikely bad risk to take since it doesn't really reward you for the extra difficulty of such a combo.

[Yatagarasu]

2 minutes ago, Valkyria said:

 

Agreed. We'll see how 5 goes for Yuzuru, but already we're talking about an outlier: Yuzuru is not representative of the average top skater, which is why he might actually pull it off. 4 seems doable for the right skater, but not for everyone either. The moment we start talking about 6-7, skating ability is no longer the limit, but stamina. We all know that to have enough energy to even attempt these monster layouts everything else is going to suffer, if not disappear altogether. That's just human limitations at work.

 

Yes, he has shorter set-ups for the jumps, so already, he has an advantage. It's not even just quads there, lots of men still have issues with the 3As and you can go grab a snack by the time they actually jump it. So when you mix all of this, he really does have an edge there. 

Stamina of course, and the force that the body has to suffer through ... really tough. Human limitations indeed, even the biggest prodigy/talent has them.

Fingers crossed though that we are yet again surprised in a couple of days!

[Valkyria]

Me when talk about 4-4 combos arises

[Yatagarasu]

5 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Well, apparently both Nathan and Shoma could try out some -4T combos, since one apparently has a 4Lz4T and the other has been seen doing 3A4T. But that seems an unlikely bad risk to take since it doesn't really reward you for the extra difficulty of such a combo.

 

Yes, that was my point. In competition nobody is doing them, no matter what one may fiddle with in practice. Which means 6 or 7 set ups for the quads plus the Axel(s). That is a lot. 

 

And well, that's the old, old grievance of not allowing for some bonus for difficult combos but tbh, I've given up. They, ISU, will never do what is logical and beneficial but they'll always end up going for some convoluted nonsense that just makes things worse. Sigh. 

[xeyra]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Yes, that was my point. In competition nobody is doing them, no matter what one may fiddle with in practice. Which means 6 or 7 set ups for the quads plus the Axel(s). That is a lot. 

 

And well, that's the old, old grievance of not allowing for some bonus for difficult combos but tbh, I've given up. They, ISU, will never do what is logical and beneficial but they'll always end up going for some convoluted nonsense that just makes things worse. Sigh. 

 

Heck, with their lowering of BV on quads and the triples for next season, we may even have less -3Lo combos in the ladies or never see a -4T combo in men. 

[Yatagarasu]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Heck, with their lowering of BV on quads and the triples for next season, we may even have less -3Lo combos in the ladies or never see a -4T combo in men. 

 

In essence, we should enjoy this season to the fullest because once it's done who knows what's even waiting for us in the future. 

 

(I think Yuzuru will try for the 4A because he wants the jump, for the prestige of it and to say that he can but no doubt, if they lower the BV of that too I question when anyone else will even attempt it again because why would they?)

[Murieleirum]

26 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

It's actually a question that's sort of bigger than Nathan or Shoma, which is can you even pull off a complete program with 6 quads, never mind 7? 
I think that at 5 already there's going to be trouble, never mind 6. And I count Yuzuru and Patrick here too among people who I think would have trouble pulling of a complete program with that many quads. I know Patrick believes that the balance is at 3 but at the same time, I think Yuzuru has proven last season that 4 were equally possible. I guess we're left to wait, not too long, to see how 5 works out. The music is pretty good to stretch this perhaps but again, I don't think 6 or higher is possible, no matter who it is. Unless they're doing 4-4 combos, which nobody is currently.

 

It's very interesting, because I think the number of quads you can pull off and still have a complete program PCS wise, depends on how you do those quads. Currently, the way the youngsters have been pulling off these many quads, they've been stealing time to the rest of the performance because of: the speed decreasing, the focus changing from 'skate' to 'jump', and the preparation for the jump itself. So, theoretically, the best way to fit 'many' quads in a performance is NOT to lose speed, NOT to lose focus of the performance as a whole, and take as little time to prepare the jump as you can. Sounds familiar?  It's exactly what Yuzuru, and ONLY Yuzuru, does. And that's how he was able to prove that a 4 quad program can be balanced. Now, maybe he won't be able to pull off a clean balanced 5 quad program in September, but I strongly believe he is capable of it, because of those things I just mentioned. I believe he is the only one who's capable of it, right now. 

Six or seven quads though? I'm not sure even he could do it and I'm not sure he would want to.