General Skating Chat

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

He's gonna pop that 3Lz again, ain't he?

 

Or maybe fall/pop a quad... and then upgrade that 3Lz.

[Anony]

12 minutes ago, Neenah said:

 

GS 

where else do people complain about everything and anything. 

Ah yes, GS the land of totaly not delusional, totaly not biased and racist quality posts. 

[xeyra]

6 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Or maybe fall/pop a quad... and then upgrade that 3Lz.

 

Nah, I don't want him to do that. I want him to actually rotate all his 5 quads. Popping the 3Lz is okay, but I don't want any popped quads. I did the statistics last season, I was in pain. No more quad popping!

[Murieleirum]

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Nah, I don't want him to do that. I want him to actually rotate all his 5 quads. Popping the 3Lz is okay, but I don't want any popped quads. I did the statistics last season, I was in pain. No more quad popping!

 

I want him to be clean... but I'm not the one skating incredible things with huge amounts of pressure on my shoulder, so I can really just pray for the best xD 

[Xen]

34 minutes ago, Neenah said:

 

GS 

where else do people complain about everything and anything. 

And the main place where people believe bring back compulsory figures will solve everything....

 

But seriously, I didn't really expect less from Lombardia.Still salty about Deniss and Jason's scores on PCS, but seeing one is small fed and another doesn't have a quad (and how quads are rewarded in PCS a little too much). Then I'm not surprised that Shoma had that high in terms of PCS scores-since judges give PCS scores for skaters relative to each other, not surprising. For Nathan, while a tad more realistic, it's not that surprising either. It's not like he had major competition-Max Aaron isn't exactly known for Artistry in public perception.

 

First, if Shoma and Nate went head to head, that might have given scores more indicative for the rest of the season. So I'm thinking ACI might give us more indicative scores-we have Javi and Yuzu who are both capable of jumping quads, going clean, and are known to have high PCS scores going head to head. So either judges do not give high 9.5ish scores for both, causing outrage but possibly also taming down the scores of the youngsters later on (since it might not make sense otherwise), or judges must raise their scores since Javi and Yuzu both had pretty good PCS scores last season and cannot really be scored below Shoma or Nate if they both give decent performances. I think the latter might be more likely.

 

Second, I think usually Series B might give top competitors higher scores, since the PCS scores are more of how skaters are relative to each other. So I'd expect GPF scores to be lower than current ones- for some of the skaters. IE I think Jason might stay the same or go up, Deniss might stay the same (though I really want it to go up), and Nate to stay around the 8.5-9.25 bandwidth. Shoma's might go down if he goes up against Patrick though, and he does face Javi too! So I would imagine current Shoma scores to be closer to what he would get if he skates relatively clean, towards the end of the season (GPF and Oly and worlds).

 

Third, I wonder if the tech panel will get teeth as we go on during the season. There's enough fury online,  and if controversy is already starting to pile on, the ISU might consider doing something. Tech panel having teeth for once, might be the easier solution.  And I think that might hit a couple of younger skaters a bit more since the biggest complaints technique has been directed towards them (or a certain someone).

 

I've already watched Nate's new FP with a pal over dinner. We both pretty much agreed that it's better than last year, his jumps seems to have improved a bit (though landing is still not as fluid as Yuzu or the uncles), and don't think this artistry will hold up under the strain of 6 quads. We both expect Nate would bring Prince Igor-Mao's Last Dancer style to the Olys. And we find his "winging layout" idea a bit disturbing (a recipe for falls etc since you can't really run through multiple layouts easily in practice ) and ripe for Zayaking.

As for Shoma's new free program...I have low blood pressure by nature, should I risk it and take a peek?

 

[Lunna]

5 часов назад, CupidsBow сказал:

Shoma did 4lo, 4s, 3a3t // 4F, 4t2t, 4tm 3a-lo-3f, 3s

 

TES: 122 PCS: 92.10 = 214.97 Total of 319.84

 

lmao the scoring here is wild. There was a step-out of the 4lo and, like with the SP, theres room to grow in choreography/interpretation but there's moments I liked. TBH I find his FS boring and flat as of right now and wish he had gone with something else.

I agree. Two years ago I liked this programme, but for me it doesn't stand out enough to be repeated, the fact that it's similar to his SP (two famous classic peaces) doesn't help at all. LOCO was a lot more interesting and unique and had nice accents *I even didn't mind the vocals in the second half of the season*, so for me it's a not a fact that's he's repeating the programme that's a little frustrating, but the fact that he's not repeating his best one. After this weekend I think Nathan's proframmes has more potential (how he'll skate them is another question).

[Murieleirum]

7 minutes ago, Xen said:

As for Shoma's new free program...I have low blood pressure by nature, should I risk it and take a peek?

 

I have low pressure too, and today I'm even sick with the flu. I survived it, but it was a fight, especially during the first half. To me, it looked as empty between one jump and another, as Nathan's LP last season. Maybe at the end of the season, when he was a little more comfortable with the music. But that's all. Interpretatively, it was a lowest imo. 

[meoima]

42 minutes ago, Xen said:

And the main place where people believe bring back compulsory figures will solve everything....

 

But seriously, I didn't really expect less from Lombardia.Still salty about Deniss and Jason's scores on PCS, but seeing one is small fed and another doesn't have a quad (and how quads are rewarded in PCS a little too much). Then I'm not surprised that Shoma had that high in terms of PCS scores-since judges give PCS scores for skaters relative to each other, not surprising. For Nathan, while a tad more realistic, it's not that surprising either. It's not like he had major competition-Max Aaron isn't exactly known for Artistry in public perception.

 

First, if Shoma and Nate went head to head, that might have given scores more indicative for the rest of the season. So I'm thinking ACI might give us more indicative scores-we have Javi and Yuzu who are both capable of jumping quads, going clean, and are known to have high PCS scores going head to head. So either judges do not give high 9.5ish scores for both, causing outrage but possibly also taming down the scores of the youngsters later on (since it might not make sense otherwise), or judges must raise their scores since Javi and Yuzu both had pretty good PCS scores last season and cannot really be scored below Shoma or Nate if they both give decent performances. I think the latter might be more likely.

 

Second, I think usually Series B might give top competitors higher scores, since the PCS scores are more of how skaters are relative to each other. So I'd expect GPF scores to be lower than current ones- for some of the skaters. IE I think Jason might stay the same or go up, Deniss might stay the same (though I really want it to go up), and Nate to stay around the 8.5-9.25 bandwidth. Shoma's might go down if he goes up against Patrick though, and he does face Javi too! So I would imagine current Shoma scores to be closer to what he would get if he skates relatively clean, towards the end of the season (GPF and Oly and worlds).

 

Third, I wonder if the tech panel will get teeth as we go on during the season. There's enough fury online,  and if controversy is already starting to pile on, the ISU might consider doing something. Tech panel having teeth for once, might be the easier solution.  And I think that might hit a couple of younger skaters a bit more since the biggest complaints technique has been directed towards them (or a certain someone).

 

I've already watched Nate's new FP with a pal over dinner. We both pretty much agreed that it's better than last year, his jumps seems to have improved a bit (though landing is still not as fluid as Yuzu or the uncles), and don't think this artistry will hold up under the strain of 6 quads. We both expect Nate would bring Prince Igor-Mao's Last Dancer style to the Olys. And we find his "winging layout" idea a bit disturbing (a recipe for falls etc since you can't really run through multiple layouts easily in practice ) and ripe for Zayaking.

As for Shoma's new free program...I have low blood pressure by nature, should I risk it and take a peek?

 

You know what's so impressive about Nathan's strategy? It's such a great PR stunt from his team and USFA and their media.

Nathan doesn't need to land 6-7 quads right now to prove anything, people automatically believe that he already landed those quads. And they automatically love his new programs because they're good and they totally ignore how much it might be affected by quads (and pressure). 

It is amazing his team and US media makes people believe it. And judges will believe it as well. 

And they all ignore that Nathan only landed a 4F step out in the SP, and 2 quads in LP. They're like "OMG at this rate Nathan might retire when he won and his career would be too short!!"

I can see Nathan will just gradually add quad depends on his condition, do less transitions (actually his current program doesn't have much transitions except good upper body use), and his PCS will just go up and up.

such amazing strategy and people love it without a doubt and believe him without a doubt. 

[Xen]

Just now, meoima said:

You know what's so impressive about Nathan's strategy? It's such a great PR stunt from his team and USFA and their media.

Nathan doesn't need to land 6-7 quads right now to prove anything, people automatically believe that he already landed those quads. And they automatically love his new programs because they're good and they totally ignore how much it might be affected by quads (and pressure). 

It is amazing his team and US media makes people believe it. And judges will believe it as well. 

And they all ignore that Nathan only landed a 4F step out in the SP, and 2 quads in LP. They're like "OMG at this rate Nathan might retire when he won and his career would be too short!!"

I can see Nathan will just gradually add quad depends on his condition, do less transitions (actually his current program doesn't have much transitions except good upper body use), and his PCS will just go up and up.

such amazing strategy and people love it without a doubt and believe him without a doubt. 

Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season.  Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.

[meoima]

51 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season.  Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.

Let me tell you the story of Maxim Trankov and Tatiana, the Olympic champion in pair at Sochi 2014. At some point after Olympic, Trankov admitted that after they got huge score from the beginning of the season, then throughout the season, his team dropped of most difficult transitions to ensure they would skate cleanly as much as they could. And they won partly due to the original PCS was high when they did harder programs and those scores kept going up and up.

I can see someone aiming to do the same. 

Transitions are false. They're no need for transitions if you land your jumps and make the judges love you. All of this has to do with PR.

When people and judges believe that your programs are beautiful you will get everything. 

[Yatagarasu]

10 minutes ago, meoima said:

You know what's so impressive about Nathan's strategy? It's such a great PR stunt from his team and USFA and their media.

Nathan doesn't need to land 6-7 quads right now to prove anything, people automatically believe that he already landed those quads. And they automatically love his new programs because they're good and they totally ignore how much it might be affected by quads (and pressure). 

It is amazing his team and US media makes people believe it. And judges will believe it as well. 

 

Exactly, I've been saying this since we heard the news.

Get the judges used to the new programs, then as he goes up with the quad numbers, everything else is dropped to either make room or make the program easier (and this goes for the SP as well) but the PCS will hold, if not actually rise due to the increased number of quads. 

It's such a clever, underhanded but clever tactic. 

[meoima]

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season.  Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.

I would say Nathan might not care if he loses Cup of Russia,

American skaters can afford to mess the whole GP, all they need is to do well at National and WC (and Olympic), ask Michelle Kwan who often lost at GP levels but won WC 5 times. 

[Xen]

Just now, meoima said:

Let me tell you the story of Maxim Trankov and Tatiana, the Olympic champion in pair at Sochi 2014. At some point after Olympic, Trankov admitted that after they got huge score from the beginning of the season, then throughout the season, his team dropped of most difficult transitions before elements to ensure they would skate cleanly as much as they could. And they won due to the original PCS was high when they did harder programs and those scores kept going up and up.

I can see someone aiming to do the same. 

Transitions are false. They're no need if you land your jumps and make judges love you. All of this has to do with PR.

When people and judges believe that your programs are beautiful you will get everything. 

...this is why I don't really like those two...Sure, but then the question is if the current version of Nate's PCS scores are high enough? It's actually fairly reasonable given his program, but certainly beatable and not especially huge (Shooms for comparison...), especially if Yuzu can nab a similar number of 10's as GPF15. On the other hand.. if the battle is on for Silver between Nate and the other men, then yes, definitely.

[meoima]

54 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I have low pressure too, and today I'm even sick with the flu. I survived it, but it was a fight, especially during the first half. To me, it looked as empty between one jump and another, as Nathan's LP last season. Maybe at the end of the season, when he was a little more comfortable with the music. But that's all. Interpretatively, it was a lowest imo. 

I would say both programs Shoma did like 60-70 crossovers. 2 quads UR, some borderline UR. Both 3A very tilted on the air. The 1lo3F technique is getting more questionable when he leap his feet. Some bad habit in the axis. And needless to say, transitions are false because who cares....

[xeyra]

So, in the end, what is the best strategy Yuzu can have to counteract this? Aim for that season-long consistency?