Japanese study group

[sister555]

Please allow me to change the air.

 

Once again, link for the English subbed "Quartet".  Strongly recommended to anyone who is interested:

http://yuizaki-libra.livejournal.com/36318.html

[sister555]

7 分ぐらい, Hydroblade said:

I just really want to make clear this:

He did explain to me why it was wrong. And it made sense.

And, when learning japanese, every book will tell you there are "i-adjectives" and "na-adjectives" that is the grammatical term used to teach the language. I don't know which terms are used by natives but if you look up any japanese language learning site, they will break them down like that. Look it up if you have any doubts why, but really, every single japanese course will break them down like that.

 

I feel like the issue here is the way things are explained to those of us learning the language, and that it might not be the same way you learn the language in Japan. Which makes perfect sense because you can teach us the same things as natives have to learn as some students come as a blank slate and need elemental things explained and named in a different way. 

If that makes you uneasy i can't do anything about it because as learners, that is the standard terminology used to teach the language.

 

OK, now I got the clue.

 

Japanese of course learn Japanese grammar, but "i-adjectives" and "na-adjectives" are never taught.

 

Perhaps theory and terminology of Japanese grammar is different between native Japanese and to foreigners studying Japanese.

 

One thing still annoys me that your teacher "defined" the usage was "grammatically incorrect".  But from now on I will think as a matter of another world.

 

Lastly, please be kindly noted that you also are getting a little emotional and perhaps a little unkind.

Because although I kept repeating "I'm now exhausted, please let loose of me", you said "I just really want to make clear this", which I personally feel is very unkind and unthoughtful.

 

I admit this has become a large flame-up.  So could you please stop now, please!

Thank you in advance.

(Now I'm totally exhausted and I won't respond to this issue any more.)

[sister555]

もう本当に疲れてる。もう本当に勘弁して！！！

こんなんならもう日本語スレッドでやってられない。

もう疲れた。

[sister555]

I'm really sorry for exclaiming in Japanese, but I really wanted to!

 

Now I should take a sleep, and I will.  Good night.  

[surimi]

I'm thinking I've stumbled into the middle of a cultural misunderstanding, because I definitely don't see anything bickerish or pushy in Hydro's posts, and find playful smileys with stuck-out tongue not impolite at all, unlike exclamation marks... just my own POV.

Anyway, I am dejected to learn of no distinction between na-adjectives and i-adjectives in Japan itself. It was one of the very first things I remembered when flipping through the grammar section of my book. Perhaps it's only taught this way to learners so that they recognize adjectives at first glance?

I borrowed a book today about expressing like and dislike in Japanese, and was surprised to see quite a number of pronouns in the sample sentences. My other books make it sound like personal pronouns are hardly ever used, especially 'kimi'. Surprises never cease.

[Hydroblade]

Since i was asked for sources... I will provide you with my sources.

These are the notes i took in that particular class (please excuse my terrible handrwiting in spanish and japanese):

Translated for your convenience:

Quote

 

	Qualitative	Quantitative
Very	たくさん	とても	A lot
Okay	よく	よく	Quite
A little	すこし	だいたい	more or less
not much	あまり	あまり	almost none
nothing	ぜんぜん	ぜんぜん	none

• When using the positive adverbs, verb or adjective must be positive
• When using the negatives, verb or adjective must be negative
• あります and わかります generally use が instead of は
• は is also used to give emphasis about the importance of something/talking just about that particular thing. が could indicate  that there might be other things or is not as important.　

 

Found an online copy of the book we used at class. Note, i don't have that book anymore because that was taught in second level. I moved up to third after a month in second and i had to give the book back anyways. This one is in english so i don't have to translate:

• About na and i adjectives:

• This says the same as my notes but included so you see that educational texts use the same thing. You will see that よく is listed just on the affirmative column.

So there you have it. Those are my sources, as apparently having a person whose profession is being a japanese teacher isn't enough, i give you my notes and what the textbook says. In case anyone thought i was pulling these things out of my ass

[Murieleirum]

A discussion this long really sets a displeasing mood and doesn't encourage anyone to participate in this thread, if I may speak my mind 

 

I'm going to try and change the topic to something everyone can participate in.

 

Has anyone tried Language Exchanging sites before? There are hundreds, probably, all over internet, and some are crowded and some are less crowded. 

I recently stumbled upon ConversationExchange dot com and I'm getting tons of messages from Japanese people who want to practice English  The only problem being: one has to be careful about who's really contacting you. 

To be honest, it takes only little experience to distinguish people who really want to study, and people who maybe mistook the site for a dating site 

I've almost made 'friends' with some of these people - with one gentleman I even got to chat about Yuzuru Hanyu! - and I've had very interesting chatting experiences with one Chinese guy who couldn't even speak English well, so we communicated through google translate and a lot of patience. 

 

So what is your experience? I'm curious to know! 

[surimi]

I haven't tried these before, but it's a good idea. Once my course begins, I guess I'll have a lot of questions. But I'll have to look for a question-answer type of thing, because sadly, I'm very introverted and quite unimaginative when it comes to general conversation/smalltalk, so most folks would find me boring and stop replying.

 

btw, question for anyone who wants to answer. When I address someone and begin with a 'kimi, ...' like I saw in my newest acquisition, is that normal or is that rude/slang/not recommnded, even when one is on friendly terms with the person adressed? I'd welcome the pronoun version as a means of disambiguating, but not at the cost of being offensive.

[Hydroblade]

3 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

A discussion this long really sets a displeasing mood and doesn't encourage anyone to participate in this thread, if I may speak my mind 

 

I'm going to try and change the topic to something everyone can participate in.

 

Has anyone tried Language Exchanging sites before? There are hundreds, probably, all over internet, and some are crowded and some are less crowded. 

I recently stumbled upon ConversationExchange dot com and I'm getting tons of messages from Japanese people who want to practice English  The only problem being: one has to be careful about who's really contacting you. 

To be honest, it takes only little experience to distinguish people who really want to study, and people who maybe mistook the site for a dating site 

I've almost made 'friends' with some of these people - with one gentleman I even got to chat about Yuzuru Hanyu! - and I've had very interesting chatting experiences with one Chinese guy who couldn't even speak English well, so we communicated through google translate and a lot of patience. 

 

So what is your experience? I'm curious to know! 

Hmmm, my teacher encouraged us to try language exchange during the summer break but I feel like it's really difficult to get real conversation partners like you say hahaha and I would feel like I'm bothering the person anyway. Speaking English should give me an advantage but I think they would be really disappointed when they realize I'm not a native, although I'm as fluent in English as I am in Spanish...

[SuzyQ]

Hot and informative talks !  

 

To me,

 

よくわかる。　I understand well.

よくわからない。　I don't understand well.

 

is the understandable extent 

 

Same as other Japanese posters, it may be a bit difficult to do regular support for Japanese learners here, as I'm getting lost in threads all the time within my limited time to visit Planet Hanyu due to my slow reading/writing ability in English.  Besides, there are still so many deep forests I have not visited on the Planet, which are luring me to get lost again 

 

In any case, I would be happy to do the support as much as I can if I have a chance.  Please forgive me about the grammar though 

[SuzyQ]

By the way, your talk reminded me about my French classes in my college days.  I had two lessons a week, one for grammar, and the other for conversation.  A Japanese teacher was in charge of the grammar and a French lady was looking after the conversation class for us.  The school said it was easier for a foreigner to teach the grammar of a language, and I thought it was understandable.

 

There were 6 classes, of which that French lady looked after 3 classes, and a Canadian gentleman did the remaining 3 classes.  We were surprised at the difference in their pronunciation.  The listening test was carried out by their reading the same sentences to be fair for students.  I suppose there are many differences with their idioms/expressions other than pronunciation.  And I also suppose this can be said for Portuguese in Portugal and Brazil.   Languages are very interesting as they are living.  One of my English teachers once said that we may think American English is new, but sometimes it is more classic than British English as old idioms are still alive in the U.S., and the original English is progressing in U.K. 

 

Sorry for  

[Hydroblade]

1 hour ago, SuzyQ said:

n any case, I would be happy to do the support as much as I can if I have a chance.  Please forgive me about the grammar though 

Dpn't worry about this :D As i mentioned before, the poitn of this isn't to make it a free japanese lessons thread :D

Grammatical explanations aren't needed :D  just tips to be more natural when speaking/writing and/or minor corrections

As natives i understand it must be difficult for you to explain why we are wrong and everyone is studying with their own means anyway this is just a practice/encouragement/ thread!

[Danibellerika]

So lately I've been doing self study, but I decided to try taking classes again. There is a Japan-America society a block from my job that offers evening classes. They basically take you through the Genki books.  But I took their placement exam and I am passed Genki Book 1 entirely and they recommended I start Level 2 (which is book 2). Each level has 4 10-week courses. So I'm essentially starting class 5. The only issue is that the 201 class conflicts with my grad school classes so I don't think i can do it right now. But I plan to work on the curriculum for 201 (I'm familiar with some of it already) and then maybe I can do 202 in the fall.  I am glad to know my self study has been good though!  

[Murieleirum]

3 hours ago, Danibellerika said:

So lately I've been doing self study, but I decided to try taking classes again. There is a Japan-America society a block from my job that offers evening classes. They basically take you through the Genki books.  But I took their placement exam and I am passed Genki Book 1 entirely and they recommended I start Level 2 (which is book 2). Each level has 4 10-week courses. So I'm essentially starting class 5. The only issue is that the 201 class conflicts with my grad school classes so I don't think i can do it right now. But I plan to work on the curriculum for 201 (I'm familiar with some of it already) and then maybe I can do 202 in the fall.  I am glad to know my self study has been good though!  

 

How long have you been self-studying Japanese to get through Genki I? Impressive work!

[katonice]

Just poking my head in here to say thank you to everyone who have been posting in this thread.

Just trying to read the Nihongo texts here are helping me a lot in my studies.

And really appreciate all the commentary on what are/aren't normally used in typical Japanese conversation.

 

I'm also trying to progress in my Nihongo studies at the moment, though must admit it's going a bit slow lately, only having time to study a few minutes during lunch breaks or while I'm walking to/from somewhere lol!

Really wish I could make my study time more structured. Sometimes I've even contemplated registering for the JLPT tests so that I'd be forced to study lol!

 

Have to say though, trying to understand all the interviews of Yuzu in Japanese is a great motivation to continue making progress.

I feel envious of people here who can do translations of what he's saying. Hope I can reach that level of Nihongo competency soon.

 

In the meantime, reading all your discussions here about the details and nuances of translations is really fascinating, and is really helping me to learn