General Yuzuru Chat

[4Nessie]

6 minutes ago, Xen said:

I think the reason why this becomes a touchy subject is this- to a degree, this perpuates the idea that Hanyu fans are obessive fans.

I think what @KatjaThera mentioned about how mentioning that you like Yuzu for reasons other than his looks, his stardom etc they chose to really focus on the obsession, not his skating, not that much on his background, not much on his personality. This to a degree, could result in the casual person associating Yuzuru Hanyu with just a. Winnie the Pooh and b. Obsessive fandom.  And unfortunately, it is the negative that tend to stick out and be remembered, rather than the positive.

 

Anecdotally, I am a Hanyu fan, but if you were to ask people who skate around me, they won't think of me as one-because to them, to be considered a "Hanyu fan", you need to be more obsessive. An older guy said it's a bit like a cult, you mention Hanyu and you need to be able to recite and defend everything he does, argue that no one does anything better or even closer to equal to him, want to marry him etc.  To us in the fandom, that's on the extreme end, but based on media report and narrative, this extreme end is now the "average." This is the power of media, I guess.

Exactly! What bothers me is, that there are similarily behaving fans for many other skaters. But there are much more "Hanyu fans" in general and they have Pooh! so they stand out. 

[Fay]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

I think the reason why this becomes a touchy subject is this- to a degree, this perpuates the idea that Hanyu fans are obessive fans.

I think what @KatjaThera mentioned about how mentioning that you like Yuzu for reasons other than his looks, his stardom etc they chose to really focus on the obsession, not his skating, not that much on his background, not much on his personality. This to a degree, could result in the casual person associating Yuzuru Hanyu with just a. Winnie the Pooh and b. Obsessive fandom.  And unfortunately, it is the negative that tend to stick out and be remembered, rather than the positive.

 

Anecdotally, I am a Hanyu fan, but if you were to ask people who skate around me, they won't think of me as one-because to them, to be considered a "Hanyu" fan, you need to be more obsessive- I believe an older guy said it's a bit like a cult, you mention Hanyu and you need to be able to recite and efend everything he does, argue that no one does anything better or even closer to equal to him, want to marry him etc.  To us in the fandom, that's on the extreme end, but based on media report and narrative, this extreme end is now the "average." This is the power of media, I guess.

Sorry, I have to disagree. Yuzuru Hanyu has done enough NOT to be associated only with Winnie the Pooh and obsessive fans, and anyone who knows anything about skating will know that. It’s not often that you see a major dance team’s coach (Patrice Lauzon in this case) get into the arena to watch a single male skate. Yuzu’s skating has that much aura around it. 

Second, you want rather too much out of a few minutes’ video. Of course, they will only mention the extremities - because they are so “special” and so visible - they are journalists, for crying out loud. They can’t have held a thorough analysis of the fandom within such a short while. No one will expect that sort of “average” just because no one will remember the video in a couple of weeks, for one thing, second, anyone who has ever seen media coverage of anything will know that what’s shown there and what exists in reality can be quite different. 

That said, Hanyu fans in Moscow were such a nice lot. Generous, friendly and comforting... 

15 minutes ago, Gaby said:

Hm. Does he intend to tell us as well ? What could it possibly be??

Gotta love Plushenko. Why mention it at all if you never intended to tell what it was? 

[kiches]

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

it's a simple fact that some Yuzu fans get emotional about him and cry. I don't see how you could write an honest news story about Yuzu fans and leave that part out. Why would covering it be considered 'in bad taste'? It's just being honest and truthful. 

 

The reality of the Yuzuru fandom is that, like any other human activity, there will be both good and and not so good. I see no point in hiding either one. What's in 'bad taste', to me, is trying to cover up or gloss over reality just because it's inconvenient. 

 

In any case, I don't see any mockery on CBC's part in this current video, and I haven't seen the other one. I have seen quite a bit of vitriol directed at the CBC by certain twitter accounts I follow, and it's really disturbing to witness.

 

 

 

 

I've seen both clips, and the one Salty mentioned from last year on the CBC website and posted to their FB from Rostelecom with the crying Chinese fans was definitely done in a mocking manner and done so intentionally for laughs (it had clown music and all). It really didn't sit well with me. In general I don't think there's anything wrong with crying, nor do I think the video was saying it's wrong to cry over Yuzu or figure skating. What it was doing however, was mocking and insinuating Yuzu's fans at 2017 Rostelecom were crying because he lost to Nathan. Whether that's the real reason for the tears (the girl in the video expressly said it wasn't on her own social media after a lot of negative attention) or not is somewhat beside the point, because the video's goal was to poke fun at the fans, to paint them as petty, and even added insult to injury with the "Oh bother" at the end about the result. This video I did find insulting and in bad taste, and perpetuating a negative stereotype about Yuzu's fans and I expect them to be better than that.

As for the new video, I think it starts out fine, there's nothing offensive about it in general up until the point where they talk about some older fans wanting to "comfort him". The weakest thing about the video is there are multiple factual errors, such as showing the wrong Japanese tweet. I can somewhat understand if whoever put this segment together doesn't speak Japanese, although I wish they hadn't included it at all if that were the case and no one could proof it. They also made a small mistake on the number boxes/bags of Pooh's he received in Russia which shows more carelessness than malice. The thing that does bug me is that in a segment that is supposedly about why his fans are great they decided to highlight and end on something they found creepy and questionable about some of his fans. They also mentioned there were 2,000 Japanese fans that traveled to Helsinki for the 2017 World Championships, but failed to mention that the arena could seat up to 13,000 meaning that a lot of the fans there actually weren't Japanese, and many of his non-Japanese fans also traveled to see him. Since this was a brief video maybe we shouldn't expect much in terms of research, but I do think they should've and could've been more careful with the factual information they presented. My other complaint is that Western media channels have a tendency to portray his fandom as solely Japanese and I do find that to be pretty ignorant (though CBC aren't the only ones that do this). I do hope one day they're able to look beyond that and go the little extra mile to better understand and accurately portray Yuzu, and his fans. I think the Olympic channel segments are a step in that direction, even though their translations of his words can be incorrect.

 

[Xen]

4 minutes ago, Fay said:

Sorry, I have to disagree. Yuzuru Hanyu has done enough NOT to be associated only with Winnie the Pooh and obsessive fans, and anyone who knows anything about skating will know that. It’s not often that you see a major dance team’s coach (Patrice Lauzon in this case) get into the arena to watch a single male skate. Yuzu’s skating has that much aura around it. 

Second, you want rather too much out of a few minutes’ video. Of course, they will only mention the extremities - because they are so “special” and so visible - they are journalists, for crying out loud. They can’t have held a thorough analysis of the fandom within such a short while. No one will expect that sort of “average” just because no one will remember the video in a couple of weeks, for one thing, second, anyone who has ever seen media coverage of anything will know that what’s shown there and what exists in reality can be quite different. 

That said, Hanyu fans in Moscow were such a nice lot. Generous, friendly and comforting...

Well in which case as a media sensation piece, it's well done-it caused enough hooblah and noise to get clicks.

And I think you have a greater faith in normal human intelligence and rationale than I do- I think unless you have been in the FS community long enough, it is unfortunately these pieces that will garner your attention more. It's a bit like how do you view Justin Bieber fans as an example?  (apologies in advance to Justin Bieber fans) Do you usually go "Oh, airhead!" or "Oh, there might be some nice ones!" initially?

 

Anyways, dropping it.

[Salior]

Thing is, that tweet itself is obviously a clickbait. "Retweet if you are a Yuzuru Hanyu fan!", bam 1.1k retweets. 

 

I actually didn't care much about the rest of the video. But the last bit got me. Of all the things you can choose to highlight in that video, you singled out a comment, made a disgusted face, and said "take that what you will?" The tweet did happen, no doubt. But if they had the resources to translate things, and of all the things they could translate, they chose THAT as a representative of Japanese fans? Fair coverage is one thing, you show both sides of the story. But selective coverage is not - people who don't know will take this as the truth. It is also disrespectful and bordering on vigilantism - who are they to single that lady out and direct attention to her, like what they did by twisting the girl's motive for crying last year? Is this how you get attention, is this responsible journalism? It's just about as rude as only choosing the most controversial, extremist Yuzu-Nathan tweets to highlight and imply that "Yuzu fans does not respect other skaters.", encouraging viewers to find them and direct their scorn at them, while ignoring that most of us cheer for other skaters, bring their flags and stuff. The damage was done - people thought Yuzu fans are all sore losers, and insane, dumb obsessors who thirst for his looks. The narrative goes on everywhere, and it'll take twice the effort to undo the damage.

 

On the other hand, I was thinking whether we could host a site for all Yuzu videos? It's a pity that a lot of subbed youtube videos were taken down. Would be great if we can have a safe haven for the media instead of sparse download links here and there. Maybe these people will then have a better information source than quoting random tweets. 

 

 

[Tee]

26 minutes ago, Gaby said:

Hm. Does he intend to tell us as well ? What could it possibly be??

 

Spoiler

That he hasn't landed the 4A yet? 

 

Tbh maybe his mentality sometimes? I was watching the Saturday morning practice and noticed he was very unfocused before his run through. Obviously it's hard being focused all of the time but if he's not things like this can happen. That's one of his biggest flaws from my perspective, because there's no reason he shouldn't always be clean because he's very capable but alas sometimes his mind doesn't cooperate with his body. I remember reading this and it's better put into words.

[WinForPooh]

57 minutes ago, salty said:

I just don't think it's a bad idea to critique these kinds of media bytes, especially when they are sometimes off the mark. For example, saying that all his followers are from Japan or Asia only sort of implies that it's a weird 'Asian' thing - as that stuff is unfortunately a stereotype a lot of westerners have against the Asian community. It's so disheartening and frustrating for your identity to be compressed into a two dimensional stereotype and i just felt that the video, while a great idea, was just a bit tone deaf. I don't think anyone is raging against CBC and trying to take it down or anything. Constructive criticism is important and shouldn't be taken too personally. I thought the piece had good intentions but poor execution of the journalistic elements. Hence: tone deaf

 

I agree with that sentiment completely. 

 

Also, we don't need to be grateful to any English media house or broadcasting company for making any media about Yuzu. No matter what the reputation of the organisation is, they choose certain topics based on readers' interest. They make the videos because they think they'll get clicks, and this is especially true of kind of fluff pieces like this. There's plenty of reporting that lots of organisations do that we should be grateful for, but this kind of journalism is as much for their own benefit as anybody else's! Yuzu doesn't need that exposure, we don't need that exposure, we don't need fluff pieces without any news in them, not unless they are well-researched and accurate. Yuzuru Hanyu is not at a point where he has to take what coverage he gets for exposure. His fans are not starved for fluff pieces about him, we have enough fan-made videos for that. And no matter how good an organisation's reputation might be, any video or opinion piece or news piece they publish can and should be held to high standards of accuracy, not just in what they say but also in what they choose to include and omit. (ETA: One video or one bad opinion piece or whatever is not reflective of an entire organisation, and pointing out what's not done fairly in one piece doesn't mean an organisation is being attacked. All media organisations eff up at some point.)

 

And it is quite patronising to imply that criticisms of CBC (or NBC or whatever else) are from Asian non-native speakers of English who just don't understand the nuances. We understand nuances just fine. Disagreeing with us is one thing, saying we say what we say because we don't understand the language is another thing altogether. I also don't actually care whether a news organisation's videos are made maliciously. I care about what they actually say and what impact and effect they have.

[Salior]

I have read the Chinese fan's weibo post about her getting singled out for crying in SEIMEI costume last year.

 

What she said was essentially

(1) She cried because it's her first time seeing SEIMEI live

(2) She cried because Yuzu landed Lutz

(3) She cried because she knew Yuzu will be very harsh on himself, knowing that he did not win the competition

(4) She cried because she just wants Yuzu to be happy, but she understands that Yuzu is Yuzu, and wished him all the best

 

It has nothing to do with Nathan, and the media twisting her intention is very sick. That makes them just as bad as the antis who call Yuzu faking his injury to get a free pass to the Worlds because he's scared of Nathan. Imposing bad motives on others is never right, no matter how you see it. 

[Fay]

6 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well in which case as a media sensation piece, it's well done-it caused enough hooblah and noise to get clicks.

And I think you have a greater faith in normal human intelligence and rationale than I do- I think unless you have been in the FS community long enough, it is unfortunately these pieces that will garner your attention more. It's a bit like how do you view Justin Bieber fans as an example?  (apologies in advance to Justin Bieber fans) Do you usually go "Oh, airhead!" or "Oh, there might be some nice ones!" initially?

 

Anyways, dropping it.

I hardly ever go “airhead” about anyone unless they give me more substantial grounds for that than just loving one particular singer, no matter how displeasing I might find the singer.  Or anyone. It’s a free world, people have a right to love what they love. 

[Xen]

5 minutes ago, Fay said:

I hardly ever go “airhead” about anyone unless they give me more substantial grounds for that than just loving one particular singer, no matter how displeasing I might find the singer.  Or anyone. It’s a free world, people have a right to love what they love. 

Then you are a saint, which is not a phrase that can be applied to most people frankly.

[Gaby]

12 minutes ago, Tee said:

 

  Hide contents

That he hasn't landed the 4A yet? 

 

Tbh maybe his mentality sometimes? I was watching the Saturday morning practice and noticed he was very unfocused before his run through. Obviously it's hard being focused all of the time but if he's not things like this can happen. That's one of his biggest flaws from my perspective, because there's no reason he shouldn't always be clean because he's very capable but alas sometimes his mind doesn't cooperate with his body. I remember reading this and it's better put into words.

I remember reading this tumblr post quite a while ago, thanks for reminding. I tend to agree.  It perfectly sums up my sentiments when I watch him. Not every single  time,  but it happens quite a lot.

[Fay]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

Then you are a saint, which is not a phrase that can be applied to most people frankly.

No, I am just old and stopped caring for what people might think about my tastes finally.  

[Salior]

Regarding Yuzu going back to Japan, that's what I thought he would do actually.

 

Firstly, it would be easier for Yuzu to understand Japanese doctors and discuss his concerns with them, that's for certain. Secondly, I'm sure he'd rather spend his time off ice with his family than being stuck in Canada like last year, and go back to Canada when he's ready for on ice training.  I live abroad away from my family, and I can understand that. Being away from your family for so long, there are many things you don't know about them anymore, and it's sad. Especially the time difference and stuff. 

 

Also, I am Chinese, and we kind of have this view that outside of tears and bone fractures, our own remedies (massage, acupuncture etc) to treat sprained ankles are more effective, which I agree. I sprained both my ankles 3 times each (rip), once quite serious - it didn't heal for 3 months and the after effects lingered for 2-3 years. My ankle muscles became weak (I can't move my feet around as much as my right feet) and mobility wasn't good. It took a lot of Chinese massage to "put the ligaments back in place" and another 2-3 years for it to return to slightly normal.

 

It sure sounds suspicious with me speaking it like this, but I find it much more effective than sitting back and letting it heal, which it didn't. I could feel a lot of difference after going for the massages, like it was painful as heck, but the recovery speed shot up like 10x and it's definitely not placebo (lol 6 sprained ankles with and without treatment). I'm sure the Japanese have similar stuff, the commercial ones are shit, but they certainly will have family friends who are good at this. Not all massagers know their stuff, I've been to like 3-4 and only 1 is effective, so maybe Yuzu is going back to Kikuchi or someone familiar. 

 

Here's a thread on Yuzu's injury on twitter. Juro's thread quoted here has further discussions about the extent of injury. 

 

 

Added this image about types of sprains here for your reference 

Spoiler

 

More details about my injury

Spoiler

That worst sprain I had was in 2013, it was my left ankle, and my reaction was almost exactly the same as Yuzu - curled up because the pain was so bad, left my feet in that position and didn't want to move it because it was so painful, and I was only able to get up after the daze passed. The teachers iced my ankle after some delay, I thought things would be better after 2-3 days because that's how my past sprains went. So I was still limping to school every day with my bag and all because I stayed in a boarding school lol. Little did I know I would still be limping 3 months later, until I went back to my home country to get a massager. It wasn't painful, but it still felt swollen, and my ankle was so weak I couldn't move it much to walk properly, as if the muscles atrophied because I wore my ankle guard for too long. 

 

It kept bothering me till about 2016, when I entered Uni and stopped having compulsory PE sessions + ball games. Even then my left ankle would swell up when I jog and stuff. It only became better in 2018, after like 2-3 years of wearing only boots to support my ankle. Basically 5 years of recovery rip. Till today I still avoid ball games because I'll likely sprain myself again lmao, and it still feels slightly stiffer than my right ankle.

 

A little trivia - They say that flexible people are more prone to sprain injuries because of looser ligaments, which I also agree. I can do splits without training (it just runs in my family) and look how many times I managed to sprain my ankle lmao, my jaw dropped when I heard that my friends never sprained their ankle even once. Yuzu being so much more flexible would need to train his muscles twice as hard as anyone else to keep it together. So in my opinion, him getting more sprain injuries isn't indicative of his "poor/deficiency in technique", it is just a tradeoff for being flexible. It's part of who he is, and what he needs to overcome. 

 

I kind of trust Yuzu when he said it didn't feel as bad as the sprain last year, because once you had the worst sprain you can kind of judge which sprain is more serious. Last year he was in so much pain he just left himself splayed like that. This year didn't seem that bad, he managed to curl himself up after the fall, which was what I did when I sprained my ankle. Also, the medical thread above said that this year it's a different type of sprain - last year was sprained outwards, this year was inwards. Not good news regardless, but still better than injuring the same place. Still having read Aoi Hono, how he used to skate on sprained ankles all the time, I wouldn't call either of these new injuries lol.

 

There are still a lot of factors to be considered, like whether there are fractures or tears. But at any rate, I'm sure Yuzu will have a better recovery support for his injury. Rest is still important to heal properly though, I can't stress that enough - mine only took so long because I was still walking around a lot despite the sprain. Wish him all the best.

 

 

[Xen]

16 minutes ago, Fay said:

No, I am just old and stopped caring for what people might think about my tastes finally.  

Pass the tea please.  I tend to not bother about people's views about the fandom, until something or someone exasperates me enough to explode.

Then I need some tea to go back to peaceful state. Now the media's focus on his fandom, is a bit like a sticky sore spot, one that I don't care about but just do when it gets brought up.

 

On a lighter note, my supervisor at work refers to Yuzu as my "Japanese skating god." Congratulated me on Yuzu getting another WR, and may end up asking me for advice when he signs his daughter up for skating lessons. o_O

[LeadenMyr]

1 hour ago, Tee said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That he hasn't landed the 4A yet? 

 

Tbh maybe his mentality sometimes? I was watching the Saturday morning practice and noticed he was very unfocused before his run through. Obviously it's hard being focused all of the time but if he's not things like this can happen. That's one of his biggest flaws from my perspective, because there's no reason he shouldn't always be clean because he's very capable but alas sometimes his mind doesn't cooperate with his body. I remember reading this and it's better put into words.

Ah, gods. I haven't been a fanyu that long (maybe two years, tops), and it's only been about six months or so since I started following fan accounts on every social network, so I had not read this before. It's somehow rather calming to read this, because sometimes it felt wrong to doubt him? Like, I know he can do it, I shouldn't be feeling this? I see now that it's something many others feel, and to be honest it's a relief. I would've never thought a tumblr post would help me feel better about some things I have thought during my short fanyu life 

 

Edit: Doubt is too strong a word...more like, uneasiness? I'm not sure how to define the feeling