General Yuzuru Chat

[meoima]

16 minutes ago, GreatLakesGal said:

 

But is choosing to go "the safe route" really the wisest choice to make when you already have one Olympic Gold Medal and are the current World Champion?  When someone says "he played it safe," it is usually not seen as a compliment. Many believe Kwan "played it safe" in 1998 and that's why Lipinski ended up with the OGM.

 

And is it the smart choice to make when you're known to be fabulously wealthy and have unlimited resources at your disposal to help you create exciting new Olympic-worthy programs? I do think more is expected of Yuzu than is expected of his fellow competitors.

 

As for how the judges will score Chopin 3.0, I doubt they will be influenced by scores he received for that program in the past. Within reason, judges can score skaters however they like. I just hope they won't be negatively influenced by someone of Yuzu's stature recycling a program for the third time.

Why it's safe when he will upgrade his layout? This is purely math. There's an interview just today with Kiss and Cry magazine in which he mentioned about challenging new layout in the SP. He certainly has something in his mind about the layout he will practice from July to October. And I am not shocked if 4lz belongs to that plan.

Judges can't give a certain program lower scores than before if the program is performed that well, or even better (with harder layout). And judges are not told to give some boring programs same lesser scores. People hating on Medvedeva's 911 LP didn't affect the judges to give her WR.

You seem to overestimate the judges too much. Even if they dislike the program, if he is consistent, they can not stop him.

They didn't like Hope and Legacy and still had to give him a WR (even though underscored) because everything he did was too good and must get above +2. 

[Fresca]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

So my current line of thought is that considering the above, he's more likely to use the 4Lz (plus didn't he say his current challenge is to upgrade the layout), if it is at a certain level of stability, prior to the season because the overall risk with it becomes less than without it. 

 

Chopin 3.0 with the 4Lz is potentially a very sound strategy, once it's fully realized, and then the three-peat may not matter at all. 

 

I also think he will add the 4Lz to his SP. He got this version of Chopin clean at his 2nd performance. That's too easy for Yuzuru Hanyu isn't it?

[Yatagarasu]

3 minutes ago, Fresca said:

 

I also think he will add the 4Lz to his SP. He got this version of Chopin clean at his 2nd performance. That's too easy for Yuzuru Hanyu isn't it?

 

 Somewhere backstage he's going ... now what is this weird feeling ... and frowning!

 

But yes, I think he's willing to compromise in order to maximize his chances but at the same time, it's still Yuzuru so we'll see the Lz (plus the Lz, providing it is in a good state naturally, is strategically sound in several ways).

[Dori6886]

9 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Well, this also has it's good and bad sides!
Keeping the 4Lo will definitely be far less risky, and coupled with the 4T-3T, he will far more easily reach Medvedeva's consistency levels, at which point he should start benefiting from the same things as she is and pretty quickly. 

But there's the bad side. One, the baggage of name Yuzuru Hanyu. So now that he's using this tactic of repeating the short for the third time, and in the name of tech, then he has to actually upgrade that tech. Or the overall impression may be very negative. Someone previously said, ISU is signaling jumps are everything. If we take this to be true and currently there's definitely a connection IMO, then how is he playing by their rules, if he keeps 4Lo / 3A, 4T-3T? And again, this coupled with his name and everything that has happened. It might give the opposite effect. Then, two, you are still banking on none of the others either moving theirs to the second half or being consistent as well. What if they do, especially considering the rising reputation of Uno, and yes, even Chen in his SP (remember his PCS went to 44 in the SP this season). There is no guarantee the judges will score Chopin the same as they used to, considering the current context.

 

Complicated game is complicated. Could go either way. So my current line of thought is that considering the above, he's more likely to use the 4Lz (plus didn't he say his current challenge is to upgrade the layout), if it is at a certain level of stability, prior to the season because the overall risk with it becomes less than without it. 

 

Chopin 3.0 with the 4Lz is potentially a very sound strategy, once it's fully realized, and then the three-peat may not matter at all. 

I agree that Chopin 3.0 with 4Lz would be better option, but as long as he won't confirm that his planned SP layout is different from what he's showing right now I will assume that 4Lo / 3A 4T-3T is THE layout. And moving combo to the 2nd half is already an improvement. I prefer nice surprice to disappointment.

And if consistency is his no 1 target (I'm talking about SP only) then going for what's "easy" (since it's not really easy) for him is understandable. My theory is that he want to be "safe" in SP, in the sense that he don't want to lose too many points, and take the risk in the free- even if he make a mistake he knows he can YOLO things to not lose too many points, especially if he'll bring four quads program with 4Lz. But it's only my theory, who knows what his entire strategy is like. 

[Étudeesque]

Pretty sure we won't see 4Lz in the SP. He brought 4Lo in both short and long last season to get consistent so the jump would be ready for 2017/18, Olympic Season. He seems pretty interested in the 4Lz though, there are reports that he is practicing the jump at Show practice so if it gets consistent enough sure I think there is a descent chance we will see it in the free. Since Uno and Chen are getting pretty consistent with their short programs (and Chen used to his layout) I don't think that Yuzuru should (or will) bring the 4Lz out in the short. He would lose too much on PCS and GOE. I think it is pretty clear that the judges value consistency over most things. They want a consistent reliable champion (saying that I do think Medvedeva has deserved to be first all season due to her huge amount of transitions and so on). 

 

If Yuzuru gets Chopin 3.0 in shape, it is still early days (I'm not loving the timing of the two spins, especially the former), I'm sure he will get a huge score. Thing is he will have to skate the program well, not simply clean which I'm pretty sure he has the capability to do. If he does, his transitions-filled and beautiful program (which I believe seeing the video Chopin 3.0 can become) will result in the judges awarding him big scores. I mean there was really nothing this season that was as great as Yuzuru's SP at Worlds16 - the judges didn't seem to think so, given how they gave Javier less points for his short at Worlds17. It is much more important to go clean in the short than long so I think repeating Chopin can be a good idea. Of course it will be more difficult getting the spread-eagle-4Lo as great as his 4S, but his 4Lo in the short at Worlds17 gives me hope.

[meoima]

Let's not talk about the 4lz for now, which I am certain we will see it from him.

There is a reason he needs a consistent SP. Because as long as he does SP well, he will be among the lead after SP (if not the leader) and skating late means his PCS and GOE won't be affected badly.

One big reason why Hope and Legacy didn't get much love was also because Yuzuru didn't skate Let's Go Crazy very well and had to skate quite earlier than usual in the FS. 

Had he skated last at Helsinki, Hope and Legacy could have gotten 230. So, by giving a consistent SP, he is guaranteed with better positions in the free. Now... he might have something even bigger in the free that we don't know of... what about 3A3Lo? Or even 4-3-3...

[Étudeesque]

I don't mind that he is bringing back Chopin, sounds pretty interesting with a new layout. It is perhaps one of the most beautiful and artistic programs ever. Hoping he will not bring back Seimei as well though, it would be a bit dull and I don't think it will look great in the eyes of the judges. I'm not as pessimistic about the judges' attitude towards Yuzuru as some others, but I do think that they are too forgiving towards other skaters at times - like giving out high PCS for clean skates and not for great ones. Doing both Seimei and Chopin would be a bit much and would kinda send out a message of lost confidence, which I really don't hope Yuzuru is experiencing (I mean he won Worlds after all). Playing it safe to some extend I can understand - and can be a good and understandable strategy, but there can be too much 'safety-thinking'

 

Also given his new layout his SP is not really "safe" to be fair, but repeating Seimei - if it is pretty similar music wise and layout-wise...I don't know it just gives me a bad feeling. Of course as a fan I would love new programs so I'm not unbiased, but I really don't think it would be a good idea for Yuzuru to repeat both programs, even if he adds 4Lz in the free. It is only a rumor though so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill

[yuzupon]

I am going to be in the camp who believe he will add 4Lz in SP. We shall see which prediction will eventually come true.

The way I see it, he is already capable of landing a clean 4Lo// 3A 4T3T in his 3rd try of the current Chopin 3.0, in an ice show with smaller rink and (from what I heard) not-so-ideal ice. He will upgrade the jump and other elements.

But, who really knows. He could totally go, 'you know what, actually, I am changing the 3A to 4A' (that's still following the rule for SP, right? Or is this the same as 'quad-triple combo is required, but quad-quad combo is not allowed'?). Then all of us 

[Fresca]

10 minutes ago, Étudeesque said:

If Yuzuru gets Chopin 3.0 in shape, it is still early days (I'm not loving the timing of the two spins, especially the former), I'm sure he will get a huge score.

 

Agreed. They need to work on the 2 spins. They're not as musical as the rest of the program and the difference in musicality is a bit jarring. I'm sure it won't be a problem for them to change the spins. He improvs the details on his spins a lot and he only practice them 5 min a week so he finds them "easy".

[Étudeesque]

Just now, Fresca said:

 

Agreed. They need to work on the 2 spins. They're not as musical as the rest of the program and the difference in musicality is a bit jarring. I'm sure it won't be a problem for them to change the spins. He improvs the details on his spins a lot and he only practice them 5 min a week so he finds them "easy".

 

Yeah, the spins are quite awkward at the moment. Especially the first one since it really doesn't match the music, at least in my opinion (same with the transition between the spins). I think the whole program is a bit rough-around-the-edges if I'm honest. The rink seemed pretty small though and of course it is still only May so the program will probably be quite different in October. The timing of the 4T+3T shows great promise though, I did also like the exit from the 3A - but yeah bit rough still.

[Yatagarasu]

12 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

 

But, who really knows. He could totally go, 'you know what, actually, I am changing the 3A to 4A' (that's still following the rule for SP, right? Or is this the same as 'quad-triple combo is required, but quad-quad combo is not allowed'?). 

 

Nope. You cannot use the 4A as the required Axel jump, but you could as a solo quad jump. 

[Fresca]

14 minutes ago, Étudeesque said:

I think the whole program is a bit rough-around-the-edges if I'm honest.

 

Yes, to get Chopin 3.0 to a Yuzu-worthy competitive SP for the Olympics, all the little details need to be worked out. Given Jeff's and Yuzu's emphasis on musicality, I'm sure they will refine it. That is what musicality is all about - the little details. But the freedom and ease with which he skates this program...it's already beautiful.

[liv]

I was thinking parts of the program did not quite fit the music perfectly either, but didnt want to say it. I do not want to say it is because we know the old one so well, but that could be the reason. I am not worried, though, because I think 3.0 is still a work in progress and it will become more its own program with time. Right now I am still in comparing mode. 

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, liv said:

I was thinking parts of the program did not quite fit the music perfectly either, but didnt want to say it. I do not want to say it is because we know the old one so well, but that could be the reason. I am not worried, though, because I think 3.0 is still a work in progress and it will become more its own program with time. Right now I am still in comparing mode. 

 

I think the answer is actually pretty simple - Jeff hasn't gotten his skilled hands on it yet. There really hasn't been the time considering he's been unavailable so who knows how it's all going to look by the time it's finished and upgraded. I feel like today was a rough draft and very promising and we'll see what it evolves into. 

[Fay]

In a little over half hour, we'll be a month old, folks...

Edited: personally for me. LOL