General Yuzuru Chat

[xeyra]

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

Well to be fair for Patrick, he could have won had he skated not bad after Yuzuru at Sochi.

 

Yes. So would Javi at Worlds. But a higher BV does give you a cushion while a lower BV requires you to be cleaner. And if you can't be consistently clean on the lower BV....

[Yatagarasu]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

Yes. So would Javi at Worlds. But a higher BV does give you a cushion while a lower BV requires you to be cleaner. 

 

And honestly, that Patrick is even considering dusting off the 4F, and Javi the 4Lo, speaks for itself. 

[GoldMedalist]

Well, what does "upgrade the layout" mean? More quads? More different quads? Crazy combos? Figure skating is not just jumps and i don't want people to blame him that he is "just jumps" (and they will). The youngsters can do 10 quads if they want, but Yuzuru is more than that, he has other qualities as well

[xeyra]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

And honestly, that Patrick is even considering dusting off the 4F, and Javi the 4Lo, speaks for itself. 

 

I'm not quite sure if Patrick is really going for a 4F. But he will definitely add the 4S to his SP. 

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, GoldMedalist said:

Well, what does "upgrade the layout" mean? More quads? More different quads? Crazy combos? Figure skating is not just jumps and i don't want people to blame him that he is "just jumps" (and they will). The youngsters can do 10 quads if they want, but Yuzuru is more than that, he has other qualities as well

 

I've said this before in another thread. The best BV upgrade Yuzu can do right now without a single other change to his layout is to replace the solo 4S for a 4Lz and do a 3A3T instead of a 3A2T. That's it. BAM, from 103 to 109 BV. And THEN he has the freedom to add a 5th quad if needed, wthout sacrificing his two 3As.

[meoima]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

And honestly, that Patrick is even considering dusting off the 4F, and Javi the 4Lo, speaks for itself. 

Yeah I have heard that Javi is practicing the 4Lo so who knows if he will add it. I am sure Yuzuru will upgrade his layout anyway.

[Yatagarasu]

7 minutes ago, GoldMedalist said:

Well, what does "upgrade the layout" mean? More quads? More different quads? Crazy combos? Figure skating is not just jumps and i don't want people to blame him that he is "just jumps" (and they will). The youngsters can do 10 quads if they want, but Yuzuru is more than that, he has other qualities as well

 

Add the 4Lz. He can keep a 4 quad program that way and have room for an emergency 5 quad layout for one. I mean we have to wait and see, who knows what he'll choose.

 

But thinking about what someone will 'blame' him for is a pointless exercise and he'd never let that lead his actions. Someone will always blame him for something - too many quads, not enough quads, not enough variety, too few transitions, he looks down too much, his arms are noodley, he doesn't point his toe ... because that's what those people do and they will always find something to yap about. So basically they're not worth our time, never mind his. Plus do you really think Yuzuru would ever skate an 'empty' program? That's not who he is.

[GoldMedalist]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Add the 4Lz. He can keep a 4 quad program that way and have room for an emergency 5 quad layout for one. I mean we have to wait and see, who knows what he'll choose.

 

But thinking about what someone will 'blame' him for is a pointless exercise and he'd never let that lead his actions. Someone will always blame him for something - too many quads, not enough quads, not enough variety, too few transitions, he looks down too much, his arms are noodley, he doesn't point his toe ... because that's what those people do and they will always find something to yap about. So basically they're not worth our time, never mind his. Plus do you really think Yuzuru would ever skate an 'empty' program? That's not who he is.

People are blinded by quads. They are like "oh 4 quads, 5 quads, well, there is nothing else, just quads".  And don't care anymore, don't even look closely at the performance.  That's what bothers me

[meoima]

5 minutes ago, GoldMedalist said:

People are blinded by quads. They are like "oh 4 quads, 5 quads, well, there is nothing else, just quads".  And don't care anymore, don't even look closely at the performance.  That's what bothers me

Well I am not scared for Yuzuru when it comes to the number of quads because he surely has known how all the other men are doing and how judges are scoring. 

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, GoldMedalist said:

People are blinded by quads. They are like "oh 4 quads, 5 quads, well, there is nothing else, just quads".  And don't care anymore, don't even look closely at the performance.  That's what bothers me

 

Well some are, some aren't. I think there's been a fair bit of talk about this during the past season. The amount of attention Jason Brown is getting, and even Misha, plus Deniss as a young and upcoming skater, is showing that plenty are aware of the need for a balance. 

The scoring of course, is a different thing but that's down to ISU and the judges. Yuzuru cannot hinder himself in order to satisfy some ideal, while he loses the game. This is a competitive sport and he has to find what balance he can in adding new elements, while at the same time keeping up with the rest of it as much as he can. Will something get sacrificed with 5 quads? Of course. But it's not on him to fix it, it's on ISU and until they adjust the rules of the game, there is nothing he can do. With the new rules post PC and potential raising of the PCS ceiling, we'll see how it all turns out but until then, he can only play the game as it is right now. 

[xeyra]

5 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Well some are, some aren't. I think there's been a fair bit of talk about this during the past season. The amount of attention Jason Brown is getting, and even Misha, plus Deniss as a young and upcoming skater, is showing that plenty are aware of the need for a balance. 

The scoring of course, is a different thing but that's down to ISU and the judges. Yuzuru cannot hinder himself in order to satisfy some ideal, while he loses the game. This is a competitive sport and he has to find what balance he can in adding new elements, while at the same time keeping up with the rest of it as much as he can. Will something get sacrificed with 5 quads? Of course. But it's not on him to fix it, it's on ISU and until they adjust the rules of the game, there is nothing he can do. With the new rules post PC and potential raising of the PCS ceiling, we'll see how it all turns out but until then, he can only play the game as it is right now. 

 

Even Patrick has remarked that he doesn't like the direction of 'moar quads!' but he'll go in that way as well if it's the way things are going because he doesn't want to stay behind either. 

[Katt]

The thing with low BV is you really need a great consistency, like Evgenia, Satoko, and none of the men is that consistent. High BV will give you a little cushion on mistake, like some bad landing/step out, even will the fall. Pop jump is the most dangerous thing right now. Nathan had 2 falls at WC but he still get 110 TES because he rotated all his jumps. This season, when Patrick/Javi make some mistakes, they will off podium because of their low BV since their PCS/GOE are almost max out. Yuzu's new WR comes purely from his BV, not GOE and PCS. So in the end it all comes down to BV. Judges can give a couple lower goes,spin/step level  but a 4lo will always worth 12 points, i don't think they dare to give Yuzu an UR if he stays on his feet. 

 

Edit : I dont think Patrick will add 4F though I really want to see it. He hasn't skate clean with his current LP layout and next season, his main focus should be 2quads SP. 

[meoima]

I am not Yuzuru and I am not anyone in Yuzuru's team, so I can not tell how much he will change his new layout. Just this is my experience from years following him, knowing his personality to some extent, he surely will upgrade. That is just how he has been all these years. 

[Yatagarasu]

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Even Patrick has remarked that he doesn't like the direction of 'moar quads!' but he'll go in that way as well if it's the way things are going because he doesn't want to stay behind either. 

 

Yes indeed!

And I believe Patrick is very much correct when he says the higher the number of quads, the more program suffers. I've said this before and I'm sticking to it. He said he believes the maximum number to be three, though I think Yuzuru has shown four is possible. Of course, here's where the number probably needs to be adjusted depending on the individual, it's a bit of a sliding scale really and depends what a person is capable of overall. 
Even with that though, he will do what he must, he'll try his best to up his content. There really is no other choice any of them have, if they want to be on top. It's up to the ISU to fix this but it won't happen this season so needs must. 

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, Katt said:

The thing with low BV is you really need a great consistency, like Evgenia, Satoko, and none of the men is that consistent. High BV will give you a little cushion on mistake, like some bad landing/step out, even will the fall. Pop jump is the most dangerous thing right now. Nathan had 2 falls at WC but he still get 110 TES because he rotated all his jumps. This season, when Patrick/Javi make some mistakes, they will off podium because of their low BV since their PCS/GOE are almost max out. Yuzu's new WR comes purely from his BV, not GOE and PCS. So in the end it all comes down to BV. Judges can give a couple lower goes,spin/step level  but a 4lo will always worth 12 points, i don't think they dare to give Yuzu an UR if he land his jumps. 

 

Yes, I think Yuzu's WTT Free Skate is proof of this. He popped 2 jumps (1 quad and 1 3A) but somehow he still got a score over 200 (just above it) because he attempted 5 quads and rotated/landed 4. 

 

I think after this season, he will pop way less jumps. Also, is it my impression, or edge jumps are "easier" to pop than toe jumps, because they rely on timing way more? 

31 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I've said this before in another thread. The best BV upgrade Yuzu can do right now without a single other change to his layout is to replace the solo 4S for a 4Lz and do a 3A3T instead of a 3A2T. That's it. BAM, from 103 to 109 BV. And THEN he has the freedom to add a 5th quad if needed, wthout sacrificing his two 3As.

 

Oh. I like this. With a 109 BV, he can easily go above 130 in TES. It's the perfect setting for a new WR. (I definitely want him to do something like 115 in the Short + 230 in the long = BAMMM 345. I can just see him thinking about the score and going "mmh. Doable")