General Yuzuru Chat

[meoima]

44 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Considering that they're doing it live in the moment and probably have a bunch of other things they have to pay attention to offscreen ( because making TV is like that) , they might not realize right away. All I'm saying is, it's pointless to expect a perfect call from the commentators every time. What matters is the judge's scores, not what the commentators say. 

 

Personally, I tune them out unless it's Kurt, and the only reason I listen to Kurt is because he knows a lot of the skaters as friends and has interesting anecdotes to tell about them. 

No, I do not expect a perfect call from them. But they are not professional. First and foremost, they are at the position to connect the audience to a "not so easy to understand" sport. So their wrong calls might give the audience the wrong feeling and make them misunderstand the sport and the judging. They said Yuzuru's 4T3T was UR which was not a true statement. And I have seen numerous new fans (and even antis) hung up onto that to go around asking people or to attack Yuzuru. Because of a combo he rotated ok, that is kind @_@. I do not expect the commentators to give a correct call. But they should refrain from giving calls or making statements if they do not have a clear view of the situation. I remember Robin Cousin of all people said something like "Hanyu only gets level 1 for choreographic sequence"... while even fans know choreographic sequence has no level. And I am not talking about they mispronounce the skaters' name.

[yuzuangel]

14 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I think that often the commentators don't have any better of a view of the skating than we have. They're not sitting down where the judges are...so depending on the vantage point they might not see everything well. Something to keep in mind when you don't agree with what they say...

GPF '15 didn't look UR at all.

Olympics SP, though, looked like it was at the 90 degree mark. But, also not UR

[Hydroblade]

8 minutes ago, meoima said:

And I am not talking about they mispronounce the skaters' name.

Honestly i can forgive that even if it makes me cringe.

But yeah, giving out wrong info makes it @___@ people rely on them when they're not that immersed on the sport, or when you are learning, so i think they should be a bit more careful with that.

 

[ballaed]

everyone makes mistakes, let's not forget these commentators have to remember all the details about all the skaters and are basically talking for 6 hours straight knowing that they're on live TV. I know it's their job but can anyone here honestly say they've never made a mistake at work before? 

 

And so what if there is one combo that people think Yuzu URed? It's one jump that happened three years ago, i bet he's certainly moved on from it so don't pay any of the naysayers any mind. We know who the real GOAT is

[Yatagarasu]

2 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

This is why I find most commentator-bashing really offensive.

 

Criticism isn't bashing though.

 

In case of BESP, and I don't see a reason not to talk frankly, everything changed when Shoma Uno started training at the rink of one of British Eurosport commentators (Chris Howarth). This is when their commentating experienced a very clear shift.

 

I don't need commentators to gush about Yuzuru. I do need them to give correct basic information, it's the minimum they should fulfill and they don't. As @WinForPooh already said, some of the incorrect comments take root and then persist, even within Yuzuru's own fandom. It isn't just the UR, their continual insistence how Yuzuru is inconsistent is yet another thing that has taken hold.

 

Two seasons ago, while not even once mentioning how injured he had been post Boston, or that he had even been injured, they played on the inconsistency card, while ignoring that even then he actually wasn't compared to other men and then toyed with the idea that he's over the hill and too old. That all just transferred into this past season where they opened up their commentary of his CoR SP with words that Yuzuru hadn't been at his best last year (2016/17) but had still "ended up" with a World title. That stellar start of season then continued on into the FS commentary where we had to listen to them talk about Shoma Uno (surprise, surprise) who wasn't even part of CoR. Because judges consider Yuzuru 9 out of 10 component skater and Shoma Uno doesn't have an Olympic title behind him to help him - ie Yuzuru's scores are undeserved and poor Shoma Uno, so underscored when he is a better skater, with better programs than Yuzuru. 

 

I really couldn't care less they stan Shoma now; I do care about the misinformation and malicious implications they are spreading. 

 

We may know they're wrong, or not care, but in reality most of the people who listen to them at best know a little about figure skating, and during the Olympic season, the one in four crowd knows even less so they will rely on the commentators to tell them the correct information, something that they aren't doing. 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Sombreuil said:

I totally disagree- they are indeed ‘ working stiffs’ and are being paid very well to do a job .  Half the time they get names wrong, do no research about even the top ten skaters never mind the rest, come up with wrong facts, cannot identify jumps etc etc.  It wouldn’t be tolerated in a football or cricketing commentator so why should FS fans have to put up with it?

This would come under the heading of "egregiously bad". Most of the commentators in this category , I've noticed, are not specialists in figure skating, but just sports reporters dragged in from other sports because the network needs somebody. You make the comparison with football, but most football commentators are following that sport full time.

[Yatagarasu]

30 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

This would come under the heading of "egregiously bad". Most of the commentators in this category , I've noticed, are not specialists in figure skating, but just sports reporters dragged in from other sports because the network needs somebody. You make the comparison with football, but most football commentators are following that sport full time.

 

And this is also not correct. As I said, Chris Howarth? He was a British competitive figure skater, who wasn't just anybody. He is the 1981 British National Champion. He competed at Europeans, Worlds and also at the 1980 Winter Olympics. He is now Glacier Skating Academy Director, as well as BESP commentator. 

 

Nicholas Slater? British competitive ice dancer who not only won a bronze at the Euros but participated at the Olympics twice.

 

Mark Hanretty? British ice dancer who was third at Nationals with his partner, and participated at Euros and Worlds.

 

Simon Reed is a journalist but on the other hand, even as a journalist should have at least basic information correct about someone like Yuzuru. 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

6 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Criticism isn't bashing though.

 

In case of BESP, and I don't see a reason not to talk frankly, everything changed when Shoma Uno started training at the rink of one of British Eurosport commentators (Chris Howarth). This is when their commentating experienced a very clear shift.

 

I don't need commentators to gush about Yuzuru. I do need them to give correct basic information, it's the minimum they should fulfill and they don't. As @WinForPooh already said, some of the incorrect comments take root and then persist, even within Yuzuru's own fandom. It isn't just the UR, their continual insistence how Yuzuru is inconsistent is yet another thing that has taken hold.

 

Two seasons ago, while not even once mentioning how injured he had been post Boston, or that he had even been injured, they played on the inconsistency card, while ignoring that even then he actually wasn't compared to other men and then toyed with the idea that he's over the hill and too old. That all just transferred into this past season where they opened up their commentary of his CoR SP with words that Yuzuru hadn't been at his best last year (2016/17) but had still "ended up" with a World title. That stellar start of season then continued on into the FS commentary where we had to listen to them talk about Shoma Uno (surprise, surprise) who wasn't even part of CoR. Because judges consider Yuzuru 9 out of 10 component skater and Shoma Uno doesn't have an Olympic title behind him to help him - ie Yuzuru's scores are undeserved and poor Shoma Uno, so underscored when he is a better skater, with better programs than Yuzuru. 

 

I really couldn't care less they stan Shoma now; I do care about the misinformation and malicious implications they are spreading. 

 

We may know they're wrong, or not care, but in reality most of the people who listen to them at best know a little about figure skating, and during the Olympic season, the one in four crowd knows even less so they will rely on the commentators to tell them the correct information, something that they aren't doing. 

The reality is, not one bit of any of those comments ever made a difference to Yuzuru's performance, or Shoma's for that matter. Therefore those comments were irrelevant.

 

The fact that people will pick up on a commentators opinion and perpetuate it just makes it all the more imperative not to give too much weight to what they say. If either fans or antis start giving out online about what some sports reporter says in the heat of the moment, they're giving it far more life than it needs to have. 

 

As for whether what they're saying is factually true or not...well, for example, Brian himself has commented that when Yuzu came to him, he was sometimes inconsistent. Sports commentators can hardly be faulted for repeating stuff that came from the coach's own mouth. 

 

IMO, the role of the commentator is to say as little as possible anyway. It's better to let people watch and listen to the music. Then  make the comments during the replay.

[Hydroblade]

25 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I don't need commentators to gush about Yuzuru. I do need them to give correct basic information, it's the minimum they should fulfill and they don't.

Agreed.

21 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Most of the commentators in this category , I've noticed, are not specialists in figure skating, but just sports reporters dragged in from other sports because the network needs somebody. You make the comparison with football, but most football commentators are following that sport full time.

True. For Olympics, the mexican stream did bring a skater to comment and was doing an okay job at explaining stuff, but the reality is that figure skating isn't popular and yeah... Somehow they think it's ok to mess up stuff (Mexican commentators pronounce the names of foreign football players okay-ish. But at Olys i heard "Anyú" and "Han-Yu" several times.

HOWEVER.

Spoiler

 

Imagine if figure skating was commented like this

"He's readying for his entry, it's a very difficult entry into that Loop, it has to be a quad, no pops allowed, he's ready and....

LAAAAAAAAND!

HE LANDED IT

HE LANDED THAT QUAD

HE SURE HAS A SPOT ON THAT PODIUM NOW"

 

I mean, i do think like that when i'm watching
 

 

ETA:

AHAHAHAHA I WAS WATCHING ANOTHER VIDEO AND THE GUY WAS SAYING:

"So many times i've thrown up bile because of you, i've lost hair because of you, i'm nervous because of you, i go to the psychiatrist because of you, and today, TODAY YOU FINALLY SHOW UP GOD DAMN IT"

Reminds me of last season's 4S3T

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

13 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

Agreed.

True. For Olympics, the mexican stream did bring a skater to comment and was doing an okay job at explaining stuff, but the reality is that figure skating isn't popular and yeah... Somehow they think it's ok to mess up stuff (Mexican commentators pronounce the names of foreign football players okay-ish. But at Olys i heard "Anyú" and "Han-Yu" several times.

HOWEVER.

  Hide contents

 

Imagine if figure skating was commented like this

"He's readying for his entry, it's a very difficult entry into that Loop, it has to be a quad, no pops allowed, he's ready and....

LAAAAAAAAND!

HE LANDED IT

HE LANDED THAT QUAD

HE SURE HAS A SPOT ON THAT PODIUM NOW"

 

I mean, i do think like that when i'm watching

 

 

Honestly, if FS was commentated like this, I think most of the problems people have with what they say would just go away. The problems all start when they're trying to fill 'dead air' with the first thing that comes to mind. 

 

Imagine a play-by-play for Ballade. Or LGC:

 

"And here he comes down the ice....his speed is high...got to be going at a good speed before this next elements...you can see the power in his legs...he's working hard...Mohawk... inside edge... 3turn...crossover...crossover.... aaAANNDD it's a knee slide! Oh, what a display of showmanship! He really nailed that. Great effort by Hanyu, and the crowd goes wild!!!"

 

* Please note I did not actually look at LGC while writing this. The choreography may be slightly off.

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, rockstaryuzu said:

The reality is, not one bit of any of those comments ever made a difference to Yuzuru's performance, or Shoma's for that matter. Therefore those comments were irrelevant.

 

Except they were not because the general public has the impression that Yuzuru's mistakes aren't called and that his scores are undeserved. You are of course free to not care at all, just as much others are free to care. It still doesn't make this bashing but criticism founded on facts.

 

Quote

The fact that people will pick up on a commentators opinion and perpetuate it just makes it all the more imperative not to give too much weight to what they say.

 

Not how reality works. General public who listens and trusts in what BESP, or other, commentators say are neither fans of our caliber, nor antis. They are regular people who listen to commentating as a guide during competitions and who trust in what those commentators are saying. They will give weight to their words because they trust them to do their jobs. USA public didn't think Adam Rippon had some amazing program that was underscored just out of the blue; they thought that because they don't know skating and their commentators hyped Adam up to the Moon.

 

Quote

As for whether what they're saying is factually true or not...well, for example, Brian himself has commented that when Yuzu came to him, he was sometimes inconsistent. 

 

When did Brian call Yuzuru inconsistent? In what context? And regardless of that, journalists are there to present facts. 

 

I mean you're welcome here to present to me factual evidence how Yuzuru is inconsistent. I'll wait while I think how I have to go four years back to find a competition where he wasn't either 1st or 2nd. And that competition came after CoC 2014. 

 

Quote

 

IMO, the role of the commentator is to say as little as possible anyway. It's better to let people watch and listen to the music. Then  make the comments during the replay.

 

That's your prerogative but nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[Hydroblade]

5 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Honestly, if was commentated like this, I think most of the problems people have with what they say would just go away. The problems all start when they're trying to fill 'dead air' with the first thing that comes to mind. 

 

Imagine a play-by-play for Ballade. Or LGC:

 

"And here he comes down the ice....his speed is high...got to be going at a good speed before this next elements...you can see the power in his legs...he's working hard...Mohawk... inside edge... 3turn...crossover...crossover.... aaAANNDD it's a knee slide! Oh, what a display of showmanship! He really nailed that. Great effort by Hanyu, and the crowd goes wild!!!"

 

 

We should take commentary-free videos and make our own like that

It would definitely solve some problems, they don't take themselves seriously at times either they fight among themselves and stuff so... yeah. It would be fun at least

5 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

USA public didn't think Adam Rippon had some amazing program that was underscored just out of the blue; they thought that because they don't know skating and their commentators hyped Adam up to the Moon.

 

good god i was beginning to forget about that

[KatjaThera]

I don't have much to contribute to the commentators debate, as I prefer watching no-comment performances, but I've heard really bad commentators in soccer and F1, too.

 

What this topic - as well as the previous one about bullying and even earlier about tabloids - made me think, though, is this: might it not be good for us to have, somewhere on the planet, a thread dedicated to busting 'urban myths' about Yuzu? A place to address the lies and misconceptions, with arguments. A place where confused or misguided fans can be pointed to, where they can find out the truth about all those things. I think, if done properly, it could be a great place for fans to find facts, instead of lies. And it'd be better than trying to argue with antis on twitter and so on.

 

I am, however, not really offering to put it together, as I don't have enough time

 

4 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

When did Brian call Yuzuru inconsistent? In what context? And regardless of that, journalists are there to present facts. 

 

I mean you're welcome here to present to me factual evidence how Yuzuru is inconsistent. I'll wait while I think how I have to go four years back to find a competition where he wasn't either 1st or 2nd. And that competition came after CoC 2014.

Brian said Yuzu was wild and lacked control, which meant he'd sometimes find himself on his back. But this was early on and it's consistency with his jumps rather than consistency with his results.

 

Personally, I see a bit where people who call Yuzu inconsistent come from, although I still disagree with them, because it's a very narrow view of his overall performances and achievements. I think it also depends a lot on how one defines inconsistency. That is, yes, as far as results go, one cannot possibly call him inconsistent. However, we all know he can be unpredictable as far as landing his quads goes. And in many ways, that's natural. They're not exactly a walk in the park. And he's not anywhere near less consistent than other quadsters. But, from that point of view, yes, he's not exactly 100% consistent. Of course, that happens because he keeps challenging himself, his programs are probably the most difficult and others, doing his programs, would probably be even less consistent. But like I said, if you look only at landing jumps and doing clean programs, then yes, one can say he's not consistentv - though I'll roll my eyes at it, because it ignores all the other stuff I've mentioned. If however they try claiming anyone else is more consistent than Yuzu, that's an entirely different topic and I'm 100% on your side, then.

[rockstaryuzu]

16 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Except they were not because the general public has the impression that Yuzuru's mistakes aren't called and that his scores are undeserved. You are of course free to not care at all, just as much others are free to care. It still doesn't make this bashing but criticism founded on facts.

No. The actual general public (as in, the man or woman on the street who never watched skating) don't know even that much about figure skating, and even if they happen to watch a competition, they're such casual watchers that they won't retain what the commentators say. The people who watch once and take an interest and do remember the comments will watch more and sooner or later form their own opinions anyway, regardless of what the commentators say.

 

As regards Brian's comment, I saw that in an interview I watched on YouTube, I can't remember which one.  He says specifically that when Yuzu came to them in 2012, that he needed to work towards more consistent control of his skating. 

 

Bear in mind, you're attacking me right now as if I had said that I think Yuzu is inconsistent (which I don't, by the way). Instead, I was merely pointing out a specific instance where the comments that commentators make don't necessarily come out of nowhere.

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

3 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

might it not be good for us to have, somewhere on the planet, a thread dedicated to busting 'urban myths' about Yuzu? A place to address the lies and misconceptions, with arguments. A place where confused or misguided fans can be pointed to, where they can find out the truth

A great idea! And maybe put a link on Yuzu's Wikipedia page? 

 

Although I can't volunteer to do it either, I have no time.