Yatagarasu

To the bold: That is your opinion that it is lacking in things that have nothing to do with the tech. For example I think it lacks in both the tech and other things. It is your opinion that it doesn't need 'crazy tech upgrade' to be a great program, others might not share it. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. There is literally no way to prove that the judges would score that in such a way that it'd be a new WR. It certainly would not be in this form that we have seen it now. We haven't seen it perfected but for the sake of argument, even if perfected, with this layout, it would probably break Yuzuru's current PB, by a couple of points but then maybe, it simply would not. Nobody here has said that Yuzuru owes us anything. And yes, people are allowed to feel disappointed. These are their feelings and they are entitled to them. Whether you feel like it's their 'problem' or not, they are allowed to express their opinions because this is still a discussion forum and the reasons they themselves give for that disappointment are those we should take into consideration. Figure skating is a competitive sport. If Yuzuru didn't think about other people, and he has repeatedly talked about for example Boyang, then he would have been in deep trouble. Being aware of where the other skaters are, and correctly predicting their development when others did not, is one of the great things about him. He did talk about how well, or not well, H&L has been received. He definitely does think about the judges too - this is why coaches often go to the judges and ask for feedback over certain scores. Judges are the ones who decide who wins and who loses. In conclusion, you have your opinion, others have theirs. Both are fine, and can co-exist.

Yes, yes it would be <-- me in that case

Yes, it's just double or triple Axel. Even with the chance Yuzuru gets the 4A, it'd take several skaters getting it, reliably before there's even a chance of introducing it in the SP. Of course, if you want to use the 4A as the solo quad then there is this requirement: Triple or quadruple jump immediately preceded by connecting steps and/or other comparable Free Skating movements - so not that easy!

I think the answer is actually pretty simple - Jeff hasn't gotten his skilled hands on it yet. There really hasn't been the time considering he's been unavailable so who knows how it's all going to look by the time it's finished and upgraded. I feel like today was a rough draft and very promising and we'll see what it evolves into.

Nope. You cannot use the 4A as the required Axel jump, but you could as a solo quad jump.

Ohhh, I want to coo at him, he is so cute! What a sweetie!

Somewhere backstage he's going ... now what is this weird feeling ... and frowning! But yes, I think he's willing to compromise in order to maximize his chances but at the same time, it's still Yuzuru so we'll see the Lz (plus the Lz, providing it is in a good state naturally, is strategically sound in several ways).

Well, this also has it's good and bad sides! Keeping the 4Lo will definitely be far less risky, and coupled with the 4T-3T, he will far more easily reach Medvedeva's consistency levels, at which point he should start benefiting from the same things as she is and pretty quickly. But there's the bad side. One, the baggage of name Yuzuru Hanyu. So now that he's using this tactic of repeating the short for the third time, and in the name of tech, then he has to actually upgrade that tech. Or the overall impression may be very negative. Someone previously said, ISU is signaling jumps are everything. If we take this to be true and currently there's definitely a connection IMO, then how is he playing by their rules, if he keeps 4Lo / 3A, 4T-3T? And again, this coupled with his name and everything that has happened. It might give the opposite effect. Then, two, you are still banking on none of the others either moving theirs to the second half or being consistent as well. What if they do, especially considering the rising reputation of Uno, and yes, even Chen in his SP (remember his PCS went to 44 in the SP this season). There is no guarantee the judges will score Chopin the same as they used to, considering the current context. Complicated game is complicated. Could go either way. So my current line of thought is that considering the above, he's more likely to use the 4Lz (plus didn't he say his current challenge is to upgrade the layout), if it is at a certain level of stability, prior to the season because the overall risk with it becomes less than without it. Chopin 3.0 with the 4Lz is potentially a very sound strategy, once it's fully realized, and then the three-peat may not matter at all.

Yes, absolutely and I think this is part of his strategy and one of the possible positives I've mentioned above. So, he pretty much has to use the 4Lz here, instead of the 4Lo. With the three-peat, the upgrade of tech is a must. He is actually downgrading his combination, which is another negative in terms of perception (and BV, compared to others who still have this option left open, with higher value combos) so the 4Lz is a must and I do believe this is his plan. By keeping the Chopin (which I am sure Jeff will polish to its absolute maximum and Yuzuru as a skater is better now than he was in 2015/16) he then has a high chance of emulating what the Russians, namely Eteri-Medvedeva, are using for their tactic. In this sense, using the 4T-3T becomes logical; it provides for the stability of a risky second-half combination. Even without the highest tech, deliver consistently clean programs and ultimately, the scores will max out, or be close to it. Now it's not quite the same in the ladies division as it is in the men's; so this is where the upgrade to the 4Lz becomes an absolute must. Of course, adding the 4Lz in this equation already threatens to make it unstable; he has to be clean-ish from the start to make this plan work. Personally I think the 4Lz will actually integrate better than the 4Lo but that's just my guess. Say I am right, then yes, steadily towards PC, there should be high scoring, that hopefully maxes out during the Olympics. The negative of this tactic is precisely the aforementioned slightly different situation in the men's field. There are several skaters who have higher tech, who can still move that up by shifting their combinations to the second half as well, and then, to top that off, there is always the possibility someone like Shoma is going to have similar consistency too next season. There was already talk last season of his time being over, so that might increase and it might affect the judges. This is why I say caution is required. Lots of things are in play. I do think Yuzuru is going for the consistency strategy (this works very, very well with the things he spoke of last season, the 'highest average'), that should ideally raise the scores from already high to highest but it is not without its own risks.

Massive if. And I feel like, while I understand enthusiasm, some here are severely underestimating not just the other skaters but the judges ability to not give him those marks, even if he's perfect with what he presents (and this is the crux of it for me, what he presents). We will see. Personally I am going to remain cautious about whether his strategy is going to pay off or not. I see plenty of possible problems and quite a few positives. Overall, I'd just like to say that for me, it's perfectly fine to be disappointed, unhappy and yes, criticize him for his choices because being a fan doesn't mean being a mindless uber that condones everything their idol does. This choice is going to be controversial, and possibly more so when the FS becomes known, so I think it's good to let people process things on their own time and in their own way.

I don't think anyone had doubts that he'd make a great program out it, I at least never saw anything of the kind. The objections were always all of a different nature, that still stand. I imagine once it's done, it'll probably lessen to an extent for some, while for others it'll hold. And that's ok, everyone is still supporting him anyway, even if they're not thrilled with the choices.

You must be talking about some other Yuzuru Hanyu. This one does not know the definition of the word!

Yup!

Like skater, like fans

Ideally! And then make it a pretty landing too.

So going with what we know now, the possible repetition of Seimei, I'd go for 5 quads which is one of these three. I don't think it'd be the 4-3-3 version, too risky, especially if he's trying to do his 'high average' thing, and I think that is exactly what he's doing here. So either option 1 or 2 there IMO or something similar.

I think he loves competing. He loves the challenge and the new rules will certainly be a challenge too. Then there's the idea of the 4A too. I think he wants to leave that mark in history, and while he already has, there's always 'one more thing'. While he's healthy and enjoying the competitions, and while he's competitive, I think he'll stay. The shows don't give that feeling that competition does, even if he's free of constraints there.

And positions them so that he can stare at them as motivation

*bangs gavel* It has been decided.

They asked her I believe what she gave him, during that GPF 2016, those Tokyo Ghoul things. And which subjects she'd like to talk about with Yuzuru; she said figure skating (that's probably their idea of it, at least they're being decent)

Here's a photo too and she added no woman has landed it so she's going to see if she can [x]. Well she's ambitious, we all knew that.

Ah thank you. Yes, he's been all over, doing choreo and it's obviously going very well for him so considering his injuries I am really not going to be surprised if this is it, Olympics or not. I'll miss him something awful though.

Isn't that the truth And yes, for me Mai and Wakaba especially IMO are going to stick around for a long time to come. You'd think they'd invest long term but huh.

I am hoping for this and considering Jeff's unavailability, I am hopeful that by the time the program is actually done, there will be enough new touches, apart from the layout of course, to give it a fresh, new feel. It'll still hold the feeling of a 'supreme' program and be intimidating as it was suggested, but it'll also be just different enough to lessen the baggage that it holds. Fingers crossed

It's not just that. I mean we still don't know what condition Satoko is even in and if she'll manage to regain the form she had prior to the injury plus she's always the possible target of the panel. Now that they have Mai, who has better tech and hopefully will move further forward in the components part, it really is questionable what they're doing. But then I guess a lot of this has to do with how Satoko has been holding the ladies for a bit etc. I agree about the possible harm. Wakaba is going to introduce the 3A but it's a lot of stress for her from the start to start delivering on it, instead of having at least a tiny bit of room for mistakes at first. Marin's first senior season and same thing basically. There're a lot of expectations there, which is big pressure for her. It's a risky game they're playing.