Yatagarasu

Hmm, ok so how about this for a general suggestion then? 1) We have you all in white bridal kimonos for the actual ceremony 2) For the celebration you can pick any outfit that would suit you the most, like the SwP dress, Fay's twirling one, something to dance in etc?

@raebia Oh yes, champagne of course and many other spirits, I'm all for a bar really. Someone can volunteer for this actually if they fancy it. +1 on the fireworks! Hmm, well we can do it like this - white bridal kimono for the actual wedding, and then post ceremony, a change of clothes? (Not that unusual really). Short white dress? Something like this maybe?

I vote that one, they're just so

Oh wow, stunning is right! Just how gorgeous is she!

Ah sorry Fay, I never did edit that bit because I know it's you in my head (I think there are a couple of you like that even!)

Ok! So now that M FaOI is done, lets use the gap to Kobe to sort out phase 2!! So my suggestion is to conduct the wedding post Niigata, as we are entering the bigger part of the off season and we'll have both free time and need to fill that space. If we agree on that, we need to figure out the exact day for it (or weekend maybe?) If you have any others, please say so, I am more than flexible on the matter. This is the one important point that we should agree on though to try and fit it for most of us! Then the rest is your choice and for the fun of it. Let's hear it. Music suggestions, outfits, are we having bridesmaids and a ring-bearer? What flowers? (I suggest sakura petals because I am that type of a sap).

No problem, happens. I mean if the judges were doing the job they were/are supposed to be doing, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But indeed, it is what it is, and right now all we can do is accept that that's the state of things. And yes, absolutely everything has its own risks. This past season's strategy turned out to be the right one, but it could have easily gone the other way. As for the next season, yes, it's true that with the scores of the SP being capped in a way, the scores would end up being close, and even if not on top, with a clean performance, Yuzuru would be there about. Then of course it'd depend on the FS itself. But I personally can't stop thinking about the 0.33 and the 2 points or so this time around, so it's my nature to always be on the cautious, paranoid side and thus go for the higher risk on some matters (which is why I said that if the 4Lz is in good condition in practice, I think it pays off to use it). That strategy of course, has its own risks too, it's just that I prefer those but it is understandable too if he goes for the conservative SP as a good basis for the FS later on. Hopefully the dice fall in the best possible way in the end.

I never said that, now did I? I said that to me, if he doesn't add the 4Lz (the way his mentality and view of skating has been so far), considering the current field, that is not understandable. That is not the same as saying he must do something. Of course, if we consider a major shift in that mentality, which for me, that is what this is, then that is one explanation and it becomes understandable. And if you'll notice, I said So I do understand what you're saying. My point is, this strategy also has its own risks and that is my opinion, which I am going to stick to. I hope all the ifs here fall onto your side of the argument and it ends with a 2xOGM!

Ooh thank you! Well he's ambitious, isn't he? And good on him. I do believe come 2022 he is going to be the top threat. His mentality, training, hard work, all point to that. Keep at it Spidey.

And I never said that they would, in fact, I reiterated, that no, I do not believe that would be the case, and clearly stated that. So I'll end the conversation here as I think it's pointless if you're are not going to actually read what I'm writing. Have a nice day

Sorry, didn't see the post. There is always talk about the tech and execution, which frankly I hand-wave, because Chopin was masterfully executed and while we can talk about the level 3 of the steps it's really not something that is massively important in the grand constellation of things (plus I am sure this version will easily go to lvl4 anyway; Yuzuru is a better skater now than he was then). The main points were music and choreography. I must admit I understand the talk about the music cut of the piece itself. The difference is that to me, I didn't find it an issue but I do understand how to some, cutting out the main lyrical theme was a problem that messed up the musical progression of the piece. For choreography, uh, I think the objection was that quite a bit of the program was actually CoP orientated, if I remember well so forced to fit that.

Yes, they will give out candies to others, who have higher BV in the first place. That's kind of my point. I'm glad you're sure that they are going to put Yuzuru on top with a 4Lo / 3A, 4T-3T and that's your prerogative, but it is also mine to doubt that, if for example Shoma skates his Vivaldi layout cleanly, especially with a potential shift of the combination. You have no idea how he will skate it when the Olympics come, and he is a threat; to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. Actually, I am not saying that at all. This is a discussion and there is a chance that one to several men are going to be clean too in the SP. You absolutely cannot categorically claim that they won't. It's not possible as there is no "prophecy" or "dreaming" or whatever. They may all completely splat and Yuzuru might go clean and stand on top with a 10+ point difference even with a 4Lo. They may all go clean and then we'll see how that goes. More than likely, it will fall somewhere in between and some will go clean while some may not. There is also no guarantee that Yuzuru will be one of those who is going to go clean in that case either. A freak slip of the blade like in WTT, and pop goes the 4Lo (throwing salt at that, because poo poo). Which is why we throw around the ifs here and talk about it. I do also get how huge a pressure the Olympics are. I've been around for good, long time and I'm not deficient in the intelligence department. Which again, for the n-th time, I can understand being conservative in the SP, with a corker of an FS, in hope that this is what is going to ultimately sway the pendulum onto his side if he can establish consistency throughout the season and go clean in the Olympics. But pretending this strategy doesn't have risks too is pointless to me, when I can see them quite clearly. And yes, some did water down and it paid off for them, Lysacek the number one of all of those. And then some ended up like Patrick Chan, who underestimated Yuzuru and that was the nail in that coffin. I simply refuse to underestimate the other men in this field. We'll simply agree to disagree on that one. I respect your opinion, even though we do fundamentally differ in some things, please do me the courtesy of respecting mine.

To clarify, I didn't mean there that LGC is more artistically complex than Chopin as I've never seen them even compared, clumsy wording on my part; I mean there are plenty of counter-arguments for Chopin itself being something special, whether you or I or anyone may agree with that or not. And skating is not dance. It's not judged as dance. Which is why you will find plenty of programs that are not exceptional artistically, that the majority of us could easily agree on, with high marks in CO, IN and PE. Just this season alone, never mind overall.

Yes, he can and I wager Jeff will do his best to do it. But the thing that counts in this judged sport is just that. How artistically complex a program is, is not what is going to win the day here so the argument that Chopin is more artistically complex (which by the way just invites subjectivity so I'm not going to get into that argument as ten people will have ten differing opinions, especially when you compare something so vastly different as LGC and Chopin; I've seen plenty of counter arguments for Chopin, some of which I can even somewhat agree with starting just with the music cut) is not really of ultimate or even high importance. Figure skating is a sport, first and last. Just for the record, no, I am not arguing for LGC in the Olympic season. I definitely do not think that's a good idea.

Chopin is not a more complex program than LGC. LGC is the most complex SP program he has skated, in terms of this sport, which is what counts.

No, it's really not though. a 4Lz+4F3T or a 4Lo+4F3T or a 4Lo + 4Lz3T is a bigger difference to Yuzuru's 4Lo+4T3T than what you are mentioning, especially in an enviorment where the young guns are being pushed forward, and there is already an atmosphere of 'he's old'. And then, to top it off, it's in a three-peat of a program. I have no issues with him dumping the 4S-3T, I've been advocating for that since last season. I also see no problems with using 4T-3T in its place, especially in the second half of the program. But coupled with the 4Lo, coupled with a program repeated for the third time and coupled with what the other men are doing, yes, it does represent a step backwards. And I think that's actually all right, if it provides him with the safety of an SP he can deliver cleanly and raise his overall chances of success. He's accepting the risks with that and it is what it is then.

Yes, everything in this post but especially that. I think it'll be fine with the 4Lz. Without the 4Lz, we're going to get exactly what you're saying there. The judges really can do whatever they want and I don't subscribe to the idea that they 'have to' give him marks because of the old Chopin. No, they really don't.

And I think this one sentence is the crux of the matter, in terms of the confusion that I'm seeing happening (I think it's gone from a negative reaction to confused in a many cases by now, which mean people are working through it). He's mostly gone for being the one who if skates clean, he will be on top, kind of thinking. Not allowing the other men, no matter what they do to influence him because he is the one in control of his own destiny. By doing the current SP as we see it now he is abandoning that. It's a major shift in thinking. Keeping himself in the top flight is way different than what he thought before. So I think it'll take time for everyone to shift their way of understanding Yuzuru now. I think he's right to go for the safe option of a 4T-3T if that gives him the greatest mental comfort and security, when it comes to the combinations coupled with an actual tech upgrade. I think the impression of "too safe" is coming from the Chopin for the third time + the 4T-3T. If it were a new program with a 4T-3T, there wouldn't be that many blinks. But a repeat of Chopin raises the questions coupled with it. So with the 4Lz, that would be erased for the most part. We'll see what he decides. This I don't agree with because Zhenya's situation is not the same as Yuzuru's. Men's is much more advanced on tech, and there quite a few ahead of Yuzuru now. You cannot apply what they are doing to the men and expect the same. What you can do is couple it with his line of thinking of last season and 'the highest average' and try to keep the tech as high as possible while at the same time keeping it in the range which gives you the highest possible chance of being clean-ish. That's not easy at all and it's important there's a balance or you fall too far back in case of a single, small mistake.

If he doesn't add the 4Lz, I admit I'll bow out in terms of commentating on the SP because that decision I would not understand in a million years. Not with the current state of men's field. I do though think he's going to add it, in which case he's offsetting the 'weak' (I hope it's coming across well there what I mean by weak) combination of 4T-3T to a certain extent, for a program he's repeating for the third time. I do think it matters to the judges what he's doing and there's a special way of perceiving Yuzuru. Just the inconsistency talks about last season, when he wasn't any worse than a slew of other men but he's Yuzuru, and they are them. So if he has a third repeat, they'll expect tech upgrade and just a second half 4T-3T is not that. It's just not. But as I said, if there is a mental block of some sort with the SP and I think @meoima is right here, it has to be the 4S-3T, then falling back on the 4T-3T is just fine. If he's not going to go for the 4Lo-3T though, to give the impression of improved tech which I still feel like he must do, we're back to square one of the 4Lz. Funnily, I'm not worried about the LP (did I jinx it? ) even if it is Seimei 2.0. I think he still had a good feeling about the LP and we'll be seeing that 4Lz and more, 5 quads too IMO, and he won't hold back there. I guess it is possible he's decided to use the SP to hang on to as many points as possible with the impression of clean programs, and then count on the LP to boost him back up. This too is a risky strategy but it might actually be the best choice for him, if the SP has a mental block on it.

Uhh, what a mess this is becoming. I am inclined to believe Plushy on this one especially considering she's doing the show. Even with that though, I think the chances of her return don't look particularly good to me, and not because of the injury. I am really not sure she wants to return in the first place.

They definitely should be prepared for the possibility his WR is going to go and not by him. I actually find this very likely. This is why I keep insisting on Eteri-Medvedeva's strategy not being applicable in the same way it is in the ladies; the tech increase in the men is too high for that to work as efficiently and securely as it has been for her. I admit I don't really fully understand Yuzuru's reasoning, especially considering the 'challenging' of the 4T-3T. It's not really a challenge at all. A 4S-3T in the second half would be, or a 4Lo-3T but not a 4T-3T. A 4T-3T is a downgrade, even with the second half placement in terms of how it's perceived. It's especially going to lose meaning quickly if any of the other men do it too, including Javier, packaged as it is in a program Yuzuru is repeating for the third time. I am in essence, supremely confused by this decision. I see too many 'mixed messages' there; I can clearly see a lot of pros but a lot of cons too. Is it possible he got so spooked by what has happened last season that he has backed off and is playing it as securely as possible? I guess it is. If this is true, then whatever makes him feel the most comfortable in a high pressure situation as Olympics is definitely the way to go, even if he is sacrificing some things potentially as there is still the FS to go. Please Japanese media, give us a good interview at some point during FaOI!

From what I've heard, that's a bit ... optimistic for Yulia. Urmanov is of course prettying it up but it may not be so rosy. It would be lovely if she managed to return though.

You are free to share your feelings, just as much as others, respectfully of course, and I do believe we've kept a pretty nice discussion here. Once again though, for the last time, it is not good to assign motivations other than what they have stated, especially negative ones, to posters here. It keeps the discussion cordial, respectful and chugging along. Thank you!

You wrote we, and as a statement of fact, which it is not. Your opinion, singular, of course, is your own. The reasons people give for the disappointment are the only reasons that need to be taken into account. Please do not attribute anything else to them, the negative implications are not pleasant. It may be a specific feeling to you, and that is perfectly valid, but if someone here states that this-and-this is the reason why they feel disappointed, then that needs to be respected. That in particular, when it comes to Yuzuru fans, who have quite often been accused of secondary motives to the point where it was/is almost not possible to comment in regards to another skater, as their opinions had been dismissed, is something we should hold on to. If our fellow posters state that those are their reasons, then those are their reasons. As for whether he worries or not, well I already said why I do believe he very much does take all of that into account. We'll agree to disagree on that one

She is absolutely lovely. I adore her SP, it is without a doubt one of my favorite short programs of the season. Her long has a certain charm too, I've enjoyed it a lot, and I am not sure many could have pulled it off the way she did. One of her problems that was visible in the GP (this upcoming season is not her first though the placement at TdF this time was her highest, 6th), the Europeans and at Worlds is that she loses stamina and cannot hold the long until the end so one of my hopes for her is that she will work on this aspect. It seems like a relatively simple thing to do, so fingers crossed! Hopefully we'll get more great things from her next season.