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True, but also I think that it's less likely than that Mao vs Yuna rivalry. However, those are all factors that the Chinese fed and BOrser have to take into consideration, hence why for now, I wouldn't bet on anything long term. Also, I'm not sure if being in Beijing will bring China that many buffs...you're overestimating our popularity and how much buff could be applied. We have to be within earshot, and I don't think Chinese fed is so strong that it can extend to men's-maybe a bit into ladies, but not that much in other disciplines, unless Boyang starts winning stuff too. So far, Boyang has a lot of competition, and even domestically he fights for attention against Vincent Zhou fans (due to having family there, being Chinese, he's got a sizable fanbase).

I think the head coach is going because for now it is a short term session (2 months maybe in summer). People tend to forget, before Yuzu went to TCC, there were many things in place: - Shirota mentioned that before suggesting Yuzu go overseas, they scouted many training centers, and TCC was one of them -Shirota also plays a role to coordiante between JSF, Yuzu and Brian. For now, no "Shirota" exists for Boyang, so until that is established, good luck. Someone has to handle the chinese press too. So what team Boyang needs to do is not just summer session with Brian, but also figure out how to coordinate (short term or long term) with TCC if it's decided that they will work with TCC for any period of time. How to deal with having Boyang's long term coach there, how to manage expectations from CHN gov't and public etc, those are all questions. They might honestly just be there to inspect, test the waters, and pull out if it really doesn't work out well. So let's not get our hopes up too much- don't call it until it hatches

You're welcome. I still think this is more a temporary issue, because Zhao said it very differently from the other decisions that were made (he sounded far more definitive about the skaters going to an American coach). And with the way he said having another coach tag along to watch, I think it's more of a short term cooperation, or a continuous cooperation, seeking advice from BOrser (similar perhaps to Lori) than a long term. With a main coach by Boyang's side, it's more of a "try and see" approach. There's still the possibility of even having Lori as a main coach, with BOrser as a secondary coach who could be consulted in the summer off-season. Boyang doesn't do many shows (hence why Ice fantasia participation raised my eyebrows). Anyways, my biggest fear is the CHN media and the expectations that will be heaped on the team if Boyang actually goes to BOrser-if anything, that might be why no longer term plans are in discussion. Otherwise, there's just too much pressure on the CSA, BOrser and Boyang.

I'm not sure how Yuzu is not a quad monster? Let's see- Boyang has 3 quads (4T, 4S, 4Lz) that are stable, potentially a 4Lo and no 4A yet. That's 3 stable ones Yuzu has 3 stable ones-4T, 4S, 4Lo, and a slightly unstable 4Lz, and potentially a 4 A coming up. If 3 quads is enough to be a quad monster, are we sure Yuzu isn't a quad monster? He's the only one with a potential 4A, so how is he not a quad monster? None of the other top guys as far as we know, are even trying it in harness. Then there's the -4T combos that he and Shoma are trying. As for Boyang vs Yuzu-um, much as I love Boyang, I don't think he's a threat yet. He's got a couple years to go before he can challenge Yuzu on the PCS front, and at least in China, Shoma, Javi and Nate were considered bigger "threats" to Yuzu getting gold. Sorry.

Might be a funding issue- don't underestimate the financial floodgate that opened with Beijing 2022. The main issue I see for JPN is pairs. But unlike CSA, JPN has some good coaches in ladies and men's, so they might not have the impetus. China does because it is now considered a systemic failure that we can't fix in time, especially with a much smaller talent pool than JPN, so outside help is called. Otherwise it's unlikely they will go overseas for the long term.

Hey guys, just to say something, I've translated and given my opinion and take on the news article over in the Team China thread. Before we go down the rabbit hole any longer and go complete off-topic, mind hopping over there first? Just saying- take the full picture in first, before going nuts over speculation. We don't know what the full arrangement is, and for all we know, Lori might even become full coach. As for whether Yuzu would regret it- if Yuzu agrees and is okay with a long term arrangement (which so far this doesn't sound like since the coach going with Boyang is his MAIN coach), I don't think Yuzu is the type to regret it. Boyang is not Javi, but he's not quite Yuzu type intensity, he's very "my pace"- he doesn't seem like the type that is easily affected by others in terms of nerves. However, the real question is not would Yuzu accept competition, but would Yuzu be okay with being the side-by-side inspiration for Jin in this arrangement. Zhao already said the reason for this is to develop Jin mentally, and artistically. Yuzu is the muse/inspiration-it's his and BOrser's choice. Otherwise, I agree with Yata that the main additional considerations are whether Cha, Orzel or Gogolev would be okay with it. Otherwise, I'm slightly dissappointed that we are so scared that Boyang might beat Yuzu that we can't accept the possibility of the two training side by side, especially if Yuzu is okay with it. That's belitting Yuzu a bit, and frankly, we'd be going the way of Patrick and Daisuke fans who became Yuzu antis, if we begrudge someone for beating our favorite fairly and squarely.

Hi guys, opining in my translation last night. I was thinking over the chinese version and I think it's more likely that this is a short term thing. One is that the coach who would go with Boyang is his current main coach, so it's likely that the coach is also seeking to get trained in some way. But this probably can't be helped, because I don't think the Chinese gov't is that comfortable with an all foreign coaches team for its skaters yet. There is also the possibility that Boyang's current main coach would move on to an overseas training coordinator role, similar to Shirota for Yuzu. Now, a couple hypothesis I have: 1) I'm wondering what role Lori Nichol had in pushing for this. A lot of people don't like her, but it's also true that to get Chinese fed to accept more overseas training, the person doing the pushing has to prove something first. In which case, I recall some of Zijun's posts indicating she and Chinese National team were hanging out with Lori for a long time in Canada. I suspect maybe even back then, Boyang was already doing SS practice with Lori (people tend to forget she's a former skater and also coaches), and she might have with the improved programs this year, found a way to push for more overseas training, especially since Boyang has noticeably improved his skating. If Boyang is already having issues controlling his jumps due to improved SS, might as well go the full way to BOrser and seek consultation for at least summer. 2) I wonder if the coaching arrangement may involve Lori being main coach, or joint coaches with BORser the way he works with Tracy. However, the issue that scares me is what Chinese media would expect-in which case having Boyang's Chinese main coach (possibly still remain as main coach), woud help mitigate some of the scrutiny. What I mean is that media handling and PR for Chinese media would be handled by his coach, so BOrser nor Lori would have to deal with the Chinese net (which in some ways is even crazier than US or JPN media). My main concern is that if Boyang goes long term, the expectations on him would be immense (maybe less than pairs, but immense). Other stuff: 1) There have been a lot of noise over CSA poaching chinese skaters overseas. I think based on the article, the emphasis is on the domestic girls. The key here is that they are opening the pathway to training overseas, with funding covered by the Chinese fed. This alleviates a concern that many parents have- that China domestically does not have an education system that allows for someone to do well at both sport and education. There are some very good novice girls these days, about 11 years old with triples, and even 3A is considered something that even private clubs skaters have to train for at a young age. However, many of these skaters also participate in dance, gymnastics, and parents would then weigh which activity is to cause the least financial burden. If Zhao really delivers on this funding, with overseas training as a possibility, this can swing some parents to let their children choose skating. 2) The "hot words" in China right now is "overseas training/education" and "where to go after I leave this sport." By opening funding and overseas training to ice dance, men's and women's, Zhao is essentially signalling that many funding will go there, so parents won't need to worry if their children won't make the cut for pairs. If anything, the number of skaters going into singles may increase. And the idea of working with dance schools is good-because this ensures a plan for when the skater stops skating-something very important for Ice Dance as their skaters on average, have to devote more years of their life to competition.

Very, and they managed to wrestle money from gov't against all those other sports. I hope this helps with skating development in China. I'm looking at the plans for ladies and have some ideas on which girls they are targetting-there's a slew of little 9-12 year old girls who won't meet the age requirement for Beijing, but if they stay on will be a threat. Quite a number of little 11 year old girls have 2As now (there's a little 10 year old girl in my city who just started landing them). There's nothing now in the junior ranks, but come 2-3 years, China might have a couple. =) In regards to Boyang-the part I'm happy about is a) CSA will consider sending skaters overseas for singles discipline, something that was not considered much before. Even if briefly, even if this was originally just an exception for this cycle, if there are results, this may open the pathway as a long term option. Chinese coaches are strict on the basics, but there might be a move to send higher level skaters to "finishing schools" overseas. This is what was needed in singles. b) That CSA recognizes where our men are weaker in at the top level-this is why Canada is selected. Frequently, I see in the QQ live broadcast about "Canadian SS" and it's for a reason, Canadian basic skating skills are considered one of the best in Chinese FS circles. I don't know, but maybe if nationalism wasn't such an issue, I wonder if there were ever considerations of sending skaters to Japan.

I don't know-he might just post stuff of his life in canada outside of training. Think of Tourguide Boyang-how to survive in Toronto with minimal english 101. My guess is that previously he had 2-3 months with Lori no? So during that period, he might just go over to TCC to train too.

TCC will become a center of the fanboy battles. Will Shingo Nishiyama or Boyang come out victorious? Will Gogolev decide to just d*mn it and join? Will Cha manage to stop this before BOrser catches on? Stay tuned!

Also, before people freak out about splitting teams etc...um, it doesn't say anything definitive. 1) The top ice dance teams will be chosen by Montreal, and will train for a period there (not sure if long term, short or whatnot, but definitely in Canada), it may involve splits but it may not! I don't think Montreal is the type that wants to split up teams that are already functioning well. 2) While reorganizing pairs team is considered, there's nothing there that says the top teams will be split, simply that the top teams other than Sui/Han will be there. It could be lower level teams that will see re-shuffling. As for Boyang to TCC and not Raf- not that much a surprise for me. Zhao mentioned that he admires Yuzu's mental strength at competitions, and his ability to handle pressure. That is something that he joked "all coaches are trying to figure out." If you can't figure it out, send the kid there and see if it rubs off. But also, somewhere there was an interview that said something about Tracy giving brief skating skills exercises to Shen/Zhao. I have a feeling that Boyang is going to TCC also for Tracy's lessons.

Okay guys, quick translation done. Under spoiler, source link: https://k.sina.cn/article_213815211_0cbe8fab020006n1d.html?kfrome=sports&local=&subch=18&vt=4&http=fromhttp&wm=3049_0016&from=qudao&sendweibouid=5532547397 NOTE: I'm only translating the Subtopics, the initial section about why they chose Sanya, I'm not going to translate.

Give me a min guys! It seems legit the original news came from Xinhua, just blew up in my chinese wechat groups.

This is bad, now I have ideas about artistic decorated feathers that can be given to him as fan-gifts.

For some reason, I have an odd idea of Boyang getting choreo from Tom Dickson or Sarah Kawahara. Seriously though I still have some hope of Boyang with BOrser, because they're both in S. Korea working on an ice show together, where BOrser is choreographer (I think?) and gets to direct Boyang around like a coach. I don't recall Boyang having many skating shows overseas, and very few where foreign coaches are involved, so *crosses fingers*.

While I'm also all in for Boyang to TCC, in reality, there's still Marin Zueva and even Ravi Walia, both of whom have had skaters with good SS- Patrick Chan and Osmond respectively. Both of whom I think from a personality standpoint, might work well with Boyang.

Asking around but no one is saying anything. Also, we do not know if this is short term or long term. My guess is Zhang he and maybe the guy in juniors, with focus to get their jumps done, and Han Yan if he is not retiring. As for who makes the decision....when CSA allowed skaters to train and have a permanent foreign coach, usually it is a coach the skater names, like Li Zhijun and Mishin. So who has named Arutunian as a coach he wants to train under.

I don't know either...John Curry never got GOAT title, doesn't make him less artistic, influential, impactful to figure skating.

Actually I'm on board with absolute frustration at the GOAT debate, because no one has made an actual, objective criteria for GOAT-ness. So in the end, it becomes a what Person A subjective values more relative to what person B values more debate. However, there seems to be several ways mainstream media has decided to measure GOATnes- correct me if I'm wrong. 1) Medals won-particularly Olympic medals. In the OGM faceoff, the only 2 guys to win back to back OGMs in the last 66+ years are Dick Button and Yuzu. Yes Plushenko is great, but he did not get 2 back to back (arguably in a controversial way). 2) Dominance in the sport- In this case, you also have 3 guys who can measure up here-Button, Plushenko and Yuzu. Possibly Patrick Chan can make a claim for his post 2010 years. Button and Plushenko just did not lose, but if you also weigh in the depth of the competition, then Yuzu might have the edge, as part of his lack of consistency other than injury, could be due to his competition being much more stronger relative to the competition that Button and Plushenko faced. Yet, despite all that, he is the one breaking his records, he is still the force that other guys calculate and hedge against. For the past 4 years, the question is not "whether Yuzu will medal" but "how does one beat a Yuzuru Hanyu?" The answer from some corners have been to up the quads and rely on brute force (BV) to make up for any deficiencies in GOE or PCS. But still, that is a symbol of dominance if an opponents strategy is not "what I do for myself" but "what do I do to ensure against you?" 3) Records and contributions to the sport- echoing what you said before, here Yuzu does have an edge. I did consider artistry and how a skater truly embodies the idea of figure skating-blend of high technical athletic prowess and artistic vision. But then artistic vision is a subjective measure, and here we'd have to enter the great John Curry, possibly Toller Cranston etc, who changed the artistic landscape of figure skating. Even so, like with Yuzu, I'm sure somewhere someone will and may have argued in the past, that those skaters were not "artistic" and "artistry is subjective." However, the reason why if we have to argue about why Yuzu is the only one who can easily be considered a GOAT contender, at least until another one comes along, is because he is the only one so far who could make a very strong claim under any of those 3 criteria. And if that's not a sign, I don't know what is.

Question is, kind of like how lala land entered into warhorse category last season with many skaters announcing intent, but not actually committing to it. Do we have any *new* up and coming warhorses?

Boyang decided to be an extra! Yuzu-stan, and got the gold jacket to match his future gold blades! Seriously though, I'm so glad that Boyang is there-he gets to goof off with Misha, plus Brian is going there as choreographer. I know it's not a permanent solution, but I think given his talent, his SS will possibly improve again over the shows.

Well, among the JPN male skaters- it's a war of the fanboys between Mitsuki Sumoto (when they interviewed him he showed them his giant collection of Yuzu clear files), Sota Yamamoto, Shingo Nishiyama (who trains at TCC), probably Shun Sato (who is from Sendai), and maybe lowkey Sena Miyake. Among the senior men-Yuzu stans Boyang's 4Lz, and Boyang stans him back. This is kind of why a lot of people want to root for Boyang to move to TCC, even if only for a short time (Brian's hair will be gone by the end of it). And then there is Jason Brown, who wrote a message in Japanese at NHK 2017, and held it up in Kiss&Cry.

I've never used it, and haven't seen it before. Would it put you in the correct edge (right back outside)? Though I guess you could go mohawk--> extend right foot and then tap left toe to go up? Mohawk is more commonly seen and used for salchows and flips.

Last call for Dabin Choi SP. If none, I'm going to move on to the FS. Regarding steps preceeding jump-I'll list the jump entry methods, so if you see these steps preceeding a jump, do NOT count them as the steps preceeding jumps to fulfill the bullet or the SP requirement. Salchows: can be a left 3 turn to vault and jump, or a backwards 3 turn-mohawk entry Toe Loop: can be a direct forward 3 turn and immediately jump (if using right foot to 3 turn), or left foot 3 turn-put right foot down-tap left toepick to jump Loop: no standard one, most people I know just jump directly off the right back outside edge Flip: can be left forward 3 turn to vault and jump, or same as salchow-back 3 turn-->mohawk--> tap and jump Lutz: none, usually just tap and vault directly off a back left outside edge Axel: also none, just the standard move weight to left forward outside edge and jump. For both salchows and loops, I've seen rolling continuous 3 turns (usually 2-3) as entries-that is none standard, and should be considered steps preceeding jumps, and for loop jumps is actually somewhat difficult because you have to check against the momentum to jump (otherwise you will over rotate the entry for the jump).