Mock judging panel

[Nuitsuki]

@hoodie axel I wouldn’t deduct Gabby’s combo for weak take off though. Marin’s 3F, for example, would be punished. 

[hoodie axel]

Why not? And why Marin's?

[Murieleirum]

4 hours ago, Nuitsuki said:

I know, but it’s so unfair if you think like this: a rotated 3lo from Marin or Sakoto receive equal BV as someone’s 3lo like Kaori who has less PR, in-air rotation and looks much more solid in take off 

 

It is so frustrating. The difference in quality is there, PR are quite noticeable in real time I’d say for skaters like Marin, Sakoto and Shoma.

Kaetlyn and Gabby also prerotate their jumps, but not as obvious as them. As a judge I do think I have to point out the difference.

 

 

I think the problem is that calling a PR in real time is really hard to do, and since you are always pushed to judge in favour of the skater (and fairly so, if you ask me), unless it is really obvious, judges can only reflect the overall quality of the jump through GOE. But I don't think it's a 'limited' influence. I think GOEs change the results of a competition. You can have a difference of 3-4 points from a perfect jump to a bad jump with bad take-off. Those kind of points make you win or lose a competition. 

[Nuitsuki]

@hoodie axel in slow motion 0.25x, to me Marin’s 3F looked PR over 180 degree, while Gabby’s 3T-3T was just at 180 degree. Also, Marin’s blade touched the ice more, it was around 2/3 of her blade. 

in real life, the way Marin’s toe pick strikes on ice looks weird. The direction she points her toe pick and the way her upper body starts to rotate before toe pick touches the ice makes her jump looked unpleasing and weak imo. Frankly her 3T in the 3F3T combo looks better to me in terms of take off.

 

@Murieleirum I understand, but doesn’t “weak take off” only deduct 1 to 2 in GOE? And its not like i gonna give it to all the jumps. Also, the highest and lowest goe wouldn’t count. If the GOE i give is lowest, it would be thrown away and wouldn’t affect final score anyway.  But if someone gives similar GOE as me, then I wouldn’t say I am overly strict.

 

ETA: maybe wait until we finish the 1st round judging. I’ll show how i grade jumps over here, then we can discuss more. Also see if I could affect final score, or final standing 

 

 

[robin]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U5pLJ6qW_AQl44EmVqcYpmffb3l_OSpZ/view?usp=sharing

 

Here's the file with the elements for all 6 girls (and just the elements)

 

(What about Mai btw?)

[yuzupon]

3 hours ago, Xen said:

See, the issue is that the rules do allow up to 180 degrees PR. And up to 90 degrees on landing.

180+90=270.

Actual 1 rotation is 360.

So, if a skater PR to the max that's allowed and then UR to the max that's allowed, their triple is just a quarter of a rotation more than a double.

...

And it would 'legally' still be counted as a triple.

...

...

No wonder some PR-UR-prone skaters can still claim they do legit triples (ladies) and quads (men).

...

...

This is why I will never fully understand why I like this sport (well, except for the incredibles that showed up every now and then)

 

That said, I can't wait to see how divided satellites judging will turn out to be

[Xen]

30 minutes ago, robin said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U5pLJ6qW_AQl44EmVqcYpmffb3l_OSpZ/view?usp=sharing

 

Here's the file with the elements for all 6 girls (and just the elements)

 

(What about Mai btw?)

I have her on the list. Because I want to include all the girls who ended up in top 6 at the end. I haven't included Dabin, but if you guys want, I can take a stab at it.

4 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

180+90=270.

Actual 1 rotation is 360.

So, if a skater PR to the max that's allowed and then UR to the max that's allowed, their triple is just a quarter of a rotation more than a double.

...

And it would 'legally' still be counted as a triple.

...

...

No wonder some PR-UR-prone skaters can still claim they do legit triples (ladies) and quads (men).

...

...

This is why I will never fully understand why I like this sport (well, except for the incredibles that showed up every now and then)

 

That said, I can't wait to see how divided satellites judging will turn out to be

Yep, but that being said, many jumps naturally allow a degree of PR, the question is how far does it get taken to make it a joke. In this case the ISU put it at 180, and as TP, there is nothing for me to call if they are at or within 180, with real time and benefit going to skater. But like I said, it can become a part of the "weak take-off" bullet, which begs the question, how much PR gets that bullet? I'm actually tempted to say if a skater goes all the way up to 180, then it should be, because you are so borderline. If you have a huge jump though nonetheless, it can be balanced out with the positive bullet of "distance, height."  But this is why I said, if I were a judge this time rather than TP, most skaters would be getting 0's and 1's from me, because on balance, that's where most people are.

 

[Nuitsuki]

@Raomina Thank you so much for the app and additional functions. I'm judging now, feel so cool haha 

 

Is there a deadline for judges? 

 

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, robin said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U5pLJ6qW_AQl44EmVqcYpmffb3l_OSpZ/view?usp=sharing

 

Here's the file with the elements for all 6 girls (and just the elements)

 

(What about Mai btw?)

 

Importing this won't override the judging I've already posted, right? 

[robin]

5 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Importing this won't override the judging I've already posted, right? 

.... I think it will.

 

We really need to plan this better next time ^^

 

eta: Or if you're not too shy to look into the code you can try to export your judging too and then replace only the remaining girls' code? Bc that's what I'm going to do

[Murieleirum]

38 minutes ago, robin said:

eta: Or if you're not too shy to look into the code you can try to export your judging too and then replace only the remaining girls' code? Bc that's what I'm going to do

 

... I am too shy.

 

edit: (It means that I'm too stupid to do that)

[Nuitsuki]

It took me 20 mins to judge Alina   Hope I'd improve gradually and be faster 

 

Quich question: can you guys notice when a skater 'hop' on the turns? especially counter and rocker? How to see it in normal speed 

[robin]

33 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

... I am too shy.

 

edit: (It means that I'm too stupid to do that)

 

So I played around a bit and what happens is, a new event is added and your old judging remains in place. The only problem is you cant export it all as one event later if you score some of the girls here and some there...

 

It's not too hard actually... eg. search for {"name":"Wakaba HIGUCHI", in each code and select everything until "elementOrder":[0,1,2,3,4,5,6]}}, and then replace one with the other. The code is a bit hard to read bc there's no line breaks but it's doable if you use ctrl+F

 

8 minutes ago, Nuitsuki said:

Quich question: can you guys notice when a skater 'hop' on the turns? especially counter and rocker? How to see it in normal speed 

 nope

[Murieleirum]

12 minutes ago, Nuitsuki said:

It took me 20 mins to judge Alina   Hope I'd improve gradually and be faster 

 

Same thing for me and Gabby xD 

 

4 minutes ago, robin said:

So I played around a bit and what happens is, a new event is added and your old judging remains in place. The only problem is you cant export it all as one event later if you score some of the girls here and some there...

 

It's not too hard actually... eg. search for {"name":"Wakaba HIGUCHI", in each code and select everything until "elementOrder":[0,1,2,3,4,5,6]}}, and then replace one with the other. The code is a bit hard to read bc there's no line breaks but it's doable if you use ctrl+F

 

Yes, that's what happened to me - now I have three GP China 17/18 events, two with my judging and one with the elements of all the girls :c 

 

Sorry if I'm thick, but where should I export what? I mean okay exporting my judging, and then in the code of my judging, I should "copy/paste" the other girl's TP elements?

[Nuitsuki]

@Murieleirum i blame Alina for her crazy transitions  I’m trying to read at least the steps/turns for entry and exit. Also when slowing down to read those, I have more time to observe the edges. 

I’ve never been a fan of Alina’s skating, but it is undeniable that her programs were the most difficult and taxing among ladies. 

 

@robin if you’ve found out the tricks, do you mind posting step-by-step construction? I think many people would need it for later. 

ETA: yayyy thank you