Team China

[rockstaryuzu]

15 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

So Boyang is not only not at TCC but he won't be there before August. 

 

He is in Qingdao, and will be training there for a month. There's that summer camp going on there but the dates mean that after that he'll go to Japan for The Ice, second set of shows in Aichi are beginning of August (4th and 5th) and that leaves him with arriving around 10th at best from what I can come up with. 

 

Seems really late to start in a completely new training enviorment, new living one, where the language is an issue.

Agreed, and I'm finding it somewhat weird, but on the other hand it's not like Brian doesn't have experience long-distance coaching as he and Yuzu have done things that way for years, so maybe that's what is going on here for now. 

[Xen]

8 hours ago, Eclair said:

Chinese fans are going crazy and no comment from boyang or the fed? Zhang He is already at Raf's but they couldn't manage visas for boyang? Brian said boyang will arrive in June and now no comments from Brian about Boyang?

 

I think there is reason to worry. if it's visa Brian could just say so or Boyang in one of his streams. But no sight of that. hopefully he is not injured or anything else ... but since people are saying that he is training, that's unprobable. My guess is the fed messed with his schedule and who knows what they think. People forget that they are not only incompetent but also dumb...

 

You saw Zijun? How was she looking? Was she in competitive shape? what did she do? Could you please share ?

 

 

1) Li Zijun was part of a promotional event where people got to skate with her, and she would guide/train total strangers who never skated before. Was only about 3 hours. It was part of Yili promo events for a new ice cream brand. I don't recall her doing anything? She did a back scratch spin, did some basic gliding, don't recall any jumps. I don't know what she looked like live during her competitive days, but a couple rinkmates say it looks like she's gained some weight? As for competitive shape...well I don't know what that involves. Also, I guess she's taken up coaching, because one of the younger skaters at the recent interclub competitions was supposedly a student of hers?

 

2) As for CSA and incompetency, well I'd really refrain from criticising them as the sole source of problems. The inability for chinese skaters to go overseas for training has always been not just a CSA decision-there is also the governing sports body in China, and frankly, FS is just not a high priority. In a system where the state and taxpayer money funds everything, it would mean that funds were just not available before perhaps, and the idea that chinese coaches must be credited somewhere-well that might be more a government issue and not a CSA rule.  I'm hiding this btw, since it's pretty long and gets waaay too into the giant fanwar in baidu.

Spoiler

Also, part of what you said is what fueled the criticism towards Boyang in the first place. I didn't follow the full thread, but there have been accusations that many fans of Boyang started out saying that if he doesn't go to TCC, it's probably because the CSA is stupid and Shen/Zhao didn't communicate with him properly etc etc. And that of course led to some backlash, where people say that the sole reason he won't be going to TCC is due to his unwillingness to leave China or some emotional attachment to his coaches and family, and thus the fault should lie with him and now Shen has to clean up after his mess after so many years where skaters in China could not go overseas at all.

 

I don't think it's the fed that is messing with this schedule. Most people who think he'll go are saying he's likely to go because...well in China, if the gov't says you go train overseas, you will go. Like it or not. The only other possibility is that they just decided to give up on him period, if he insists too strongly. And if it really does end up that a) he's not going and b) it's because he's not comfortable going overseas/leaving family/ leaving ex coaches. Well Boyang sadly is going to lose that PR battle. I think in China, given how people want to send their kids overseas, and I've seen students as young as 16 going overseas to study on their own, he will not win general sympathies. Especially since atheletes are funded by taxpayer money. If he doesn't do well next season in such situation....he'll be "given up" as a lost cause in China. Especially as athletes in China are funded by taxpayer money, and there are already general complaints that we should stop it period and let it all commercialize.

 

Now there's even a new theory that it's all part of political battles in China. Where you might have 1 group that's more liberal and for skaters going overseas, and another more conservative branch that is not for it period. So Boyang is being used as a pawn in that part of the battle- if he goes overseas and gets results, then it's a slap to the face of his coaches, in case anyone is wondering which side people think Boyang's Chinese coaches are in.

As for me, I might be one of the few who thinks it's probably arranged out, and well, CSA is letting team Boyang and TCC decide how it wants to handle the media.

[Eclair]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

1) Li Zijun was part of a promotional event where people got to skate with her, and she would guide/train total strangers who never skated before. Was only about 3 hours. It was part of Yili promo events for a new ice cream brand. I don't recall her doing anything? She did a back scratch spin, did some basic gliding, don't recall any jumps. I don't know what she looked like live during her competitive days, but a couple rinkmates say it looks like she's gained some weight? As for competitive shape...well I don't know what that involves. Also, I guess she's taken up coaching, because one of the younger skaters at the recent interclub competitions was supposedly a student of hers?

 

2) As for CSA and incompetency, well I'd really refrain from criticising them as the sole source of problems. The inability for chinese skaters to go overseas for training has always been not just a CSA decision-there is also the governing sports body in China, and frankly, FS is just not a high priority. In a system where the state and taxpayer money funds everything, it would mean that funds were just not available before perhaps, and the idea that chinese coaches must be credited somewhere-well that might be more a government issue and not a CSA rule.  I'm hiding this btw, since it's pretty long and gets waaay too into the giant fanwar in baidu.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, part of what you said is what fueled the criticism towards Boyang in the first place. I didn't follow the full thread, but there have been accusations that many fans of Boyang started out saying that if he doesn't go to TCC, it's probably because the CSA is stupid and Shen/Zhao didn't communicate with him properly etc etc. And that of course led to some backlash, where people say that the sole reason he won't be going to TCC is due to his unwillingness to leave China or some emotional attachment to his coaches and family, and thus the fault should lie with him and now Shen has to clean up after his mess after so many years where skaters in China could not go overseas at all.

 

I don't think it's the fed that is messing with this schedule. Most people who think he'll go are saying he's likely to go because...well in China, if the gov't says you go train overseas, you will go. Like it or not. The only other possibility is that they just decided to give up on him period, if he insists too strongly. And if it really does end up that a) he's not going and b) it's because he's not comfortable going overseas/leaving family/ leaving ex coaches. Well Boyang sadly is going to lose that PR battle. I think in China, given how people want to send their kids overseas, and I've seen students as young as 16 going overseas to study on their own, he will not win general sympathies. Especially since atheletes are funded by taxpayer money. If he doesn't do well next season in such situation....he'll be "given up" as a lost cause in China. Especially as athletes in China are funded by taxpayer money, and there are already general complaints that we should stop it period and let it all commercialize.

 

Now there's even a new theory that it's all part of political battles in China. Where you might have 1 group that's more liberal and for skaters going overseas, and another more conservative branch that is not for it period. So Boyang is being used as a pawn in that part of the battle- if he goes overseas and gets results, then it's a slap to the face of his coaches, in case anyone is wondering which side people think Boyang's Chinese coaches are in.

As for me, I might be one of the few who thinks it's probably arranged out, and well, CSA is letting team Boyang and TCC decide how it wants to handle the media.

thanks for the Zijun updates! great to hear she was doing fine! these past days have been hard on her (her dog was poisend) 

 

well I don't read Baidu so I know nothing of their fan wars but I find it strange that the junior men are already in the US with Raf, wang/liu are already in montrreal, while Boyang isn't in Canada. So I don't think it's a political issue about whether Chinese skaters are allowed to train abroad or a visa issue this time. 

 

I also don't think Boyang is refusing or delaying to go himself, because that would be a huge faux pax and in the past he never had a problem to travel to Lori's rink in Toronto which is like a few km apart from the TCC rink. I also don't think he is injured because he was seen training and nothing is indicating this. 

 

so there are not many options left - something must have happened that led to the change of plans. and the fed delaying his training for promo events or at least the fed being the one who delays things for one reason or the other sounds just like something they would do  we'll see...

[hoodie axel]

It's probably just visa issues. He's a masked vigilante after all.

[xeyra]

But why would there be Visa issues for him now when he got them just fine in June? He was in Canada already. Or are Canadian long term work visas a more complicated issue?

[hoodie axel]

46 minutes ago, xeyra said:

But why would there be Visa issues for him now when he got them just fine in June? He was in Canada already. Or are Canadian long term work visas a more complicated issue?

 

He'd need an athlete's visa.

 

I had this doubt, too. But the one he uses for Lori was probably temporary, and I think he needs to sit out for a bit before another is reissued. It's 3-6 months, at a time for temporary, I think (someone from Canada can clear this up). He could have had a 6 month issued and stayed till November, but bowing out of training mid-season (and returning goodness knows when) makes very little sense. So maybe they got him cleared for one month (because he'd need his programs for The Ice and also for the season to practice them), and he's in China (and therefore has the time to do obligations for the National Team) sitting his time-out, and waiting for a permanent one. Even if he gets it mid-July, he'd have to leave in a couple weeks for Japan. And if the coaching situation got finalized in April as we know, the temporary one was likely already issued.

 

And the visa regulations on Canada are strict. Not that he's probably run into problems, but he was there in May, so he might be sitting out now, and the permanent one might not start getting issued until that time's up, which then needs to pass through the regulations and security. Reputation as an Olympic athlete and sponsoring from CSA helps. The ID teams are probably already there because I don't think they ever went to Canada before on a temporary basis, so all they had to do was get permanent ones issued.

[Xen]

Apparently Sui/Han are back on ice!

http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=花样滑冰&flux=1&tid=5782619474&pic_id=e0d0cd11728b4710a86f9932cfcec3fdfd032378&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1&red_tag=w3099538149

 

[hoodie axel]

 

[xeyra]

Take it with a grain of salt but TSL is saying that they were told by their inside sources Boyang is no longer going to TCC. They then speculate about the reasons and wonder if it was because of egos between Lori Nichol and Brian Orser/David Wilson, since Lori did Boyang's programs with no input from the TCC team. 

[Eclair]

13 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Take it with a grain of salt but TSL is saying that they were told by their inside sources Boyang is no longer going to TCC. They then speculate about the reasons and wonder if it was because of egos between Lori Nichol and Brian Orser/David Wilson, since Lori did Boyang's programs with no input from the TCC team. 

yes it sounded like they were speculating that Brian wanted to give Boyang very intense artistic guidance and now can't because David Wilson is not going to polish the work of Lori and Lori also doesn't want someone else to mingle with her work. 

 

Sounded like Chinese fed just send Boyang to get choreography from Lori and it never crossed their mind to inform Brian about it or ask for his input. But Brian already had other plans for Boyang, so now he's saying, Boyang is not coming.  this is pure speculation though. And I hope whatever it is, they can still work it out ..

[Yatagarasu]

I doubt very, very much that Boyang is not coming, if he is not coming, due to something like that. Sounds like nonsense to me, especially as they were supposed to work long term and spend years together. There would be other programs.

 

News that he is not coming though ... now that is huge. WTH off season. WTAH. 

[Sombreuil]

Bloody hell - what next??

[hoodie axel]

Erm, that sounds bogus. Maybe he's really not going, but that's a bogus reason.

 

[Eclair]

3 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I doubt very, very much that Boyang is not coming, if he is not coming, due to something like that. Sounds like nonsense to me, especially as they were supposed to work long term and spend years together. There would be other programs.

 

News that he is not coming though ... now that is huge. WTH off season. WTAH. 

well they also did speculate that Brian is saying this to get more ground and leeway about the training plan of Boyang, so that it's him who can decide everything. TSL speculation has not proven to be very reliable though. Their inside info on the other hand are mostly true, so there seem to be some problems about Boyang coming ... 

[Yatagarasu]

5 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

Bloody hell - what next??

 

Uh oh. 

Jinx. 

 

___

 

@Eclair yes, their insider info is often true, so I am more inclined to believe that (however mind boggling it is this time) but the speculation is more often wrong than not and this particular one sound really off to me. Tbh Brian doesn't need more leeway, I am sure of it. He is quite tricky with accepting skaters and he wouldn't have done it in the first place if there were many attached conditions. I don't know what happened if indeed it did but it is probably some mess way bigger than iffy choreo.
And Lori doesn't seem like she would make a fuss over this either btw.