General Skating Chat

[the50person]

4 hours ago, SSS said:

Totally agree with your reason.

The videos I watched pointed out questionable high BV with URs and wrong edges, interesting GOE marks with so many 3s, sudden jump of pcs, and politicking... I just don't want to see if yuzu has his dream skates and doesn’t get gold, people are saying others have higher BV, goe and good pcs...If that happens, will JSF be on Yuzu’s side...

 

Have you guys watched Vincent's Romeo and Juliet?...

 

Yes. The content felt rather lacking between jumps, especially in the second half of the programme. Choreo also wasn't really designed in time with the music so there's this off-kilter feeling. Vincent still appears stiff and hesitant in the programme, and I don't know and can't connect to whatever he is trying to tell us. His knees and shoulders are stiff. The heart and soul was simply not in the performace, it failed to touch and felt like he was just going through the moves. Vincent has yet to grasp the essence, the core spirit of the programme, and make it his own. Perhaps, the choreo's huge similarity to Yuzuru's R&J1 might have ironically made it harder for him to make it more personal? Granted, it's still early in the season.

 

But goodness, that score. 177.65. Slightly below Yuzuru's Sochi FS score. Slightly above Yuzuru's 2015 Worlds FS. Above Yuzuru's score of 172.27 for 2016 Autumn Classic International, where Yuzu had the benefit of being the only top 6 man there and being Canadian-trained at least, plus the boost of landing the 4Lo.

 

 

And that's at the start of the season. 

[SSS]

33 minutes ago, the50person said:

But goodness, that score. 177.65. Slightly below Yuzuru's Sochi FS score. Slightly above Yuzuru's 2015 Worlds FS. Above Yuzuru's score of 172.27 for 2016 Autumn Classic International, where Yuzu had the benefit of being the only top 6 man there and being Canadian-trained at least, plus the boost of landing the 4Lo.

 

 

And that's at the start of the season. 

What, there is score?! 177.65....watched again... and then I watched Yuzu's 12wc FS...I cried...sorry, I prefer to watch 12wc FS a thousand times  This is so pathetic...

How do I survive this season...

 

Edit: 16 years old ice show Romeo Yuzu just delighted me 

[crystal]

一小时前, SSS说:

What, there is score?! 177.65....watched again... and then I watched Yuzu's 12wc FS...I cried...sorry, I prefer to watch 12wc FS a thousand times  This is so pathetic...

How do I survive this season...

 

Edit: 16 years old ice show Romeo Yuzu just delighted me 

Yuzu's 12wc FS got 173.99 with only one quad...

[SparkleSalad]

7 hours ago, SSS said:

Have you guys watched Vincent's Romeo and Juliet?...

 

 

Oh dear...

 

I feel so sorry for this kid. All this music choice (and borrowed bits of choreography) does is highlight his inadequecies and Yuzuru's brilliance. They've done him a great disservice. Yuzuru's intense performance is so burned into my mind that that's what I was seeing in my head the whole time. The contrast couldn't be more striking.

 

I don't like to remark on anyone's potential or lack thereof but, technique aside, there are certain things you can't learn - emotion, soulfulness - and, unfortunately, you need those to be truly great. I really think this music should be off limits, for everyone's sake.

[Xen]

1 hour ago, SSS said:

What, there is score?! 177.65....watched again... and then I watched Yuzu's 12wc FS...I cried...sorry, I prefer to watch 12wc FS a thousand times  This is so pathetic...

How do I survive this season...

 

Edit: 16 years old ice show Romeo Yuzu just delighted me 

I haven't watched it, and honestly don't want to watch it. Not a huge R&J fan, and frankly Zuzu's 2012 WC was the only version I can stomach. I'm no longer sure how active @Fresca and @koneko but it would be interesting to get their input. There was a thread on alignment of Shoma and Nathan: 

The thing that bugs me the most about Shoma and Vincent's prerotation is that it's not a normal prerotation- normally when we say "prerotation" when learning the jumps it's about the upper body going ahead of the legs, which leads to problems of under-rotation (or not lauching, period). Vincent, due to not having that many close-up videos of his actual feet and legs when jumping, right now looks as if he doesn't pre-rotate as much as Shoma. Btw, congrats on getting me to watch Vincent. But his alignment has shades of Shoma.

 

Shoma....Kurt Browning has some on-point commentary during the WC long. In a flip jump, your weight actually transfers to the right leg to vault up. Shoma's right leg is just a brake, his weight stays center and on the left leg, so he pivots on his left blade to jump up, rather than really using his right toe pick. A flip jump when done right, can get you the most height and distance out of all the jumps. But shoma's flip looks much smaller than what I expected, and his launch method probably contributes to that. The real issue is that his methodology is absolutely unnatural position for your left and right legs . At the rate he's going, in a couple years there might be ankle, legs and maybe hip surgeries incoming. 

[kaeryth]

I don't think there's an official score sheet yet from Skate Detroit but from what I've seen Vincent got 177.65 for his FS [99.85 TES / 78.80 PCS -1]. Yuzu's WC 2012 score was 173.99 [91.99 TES / 83 PCS -1]. So, Yuzu's TES with 1 quad (a 4T) is only 7.86 less than a 4 quad program with 4Lz and 4F. I'm a bit confused with the PCS but let's face it, scoring for PCS is always confusing (also, I haven't seen the protocols). So, I don't think the score is that shocking really. It's also still a bit early and the program may change over the season.

 

Personally, I don't think I can enjoy or appreciate it mainly because I've watched Yuzu's 2012 WC skate so much I can pinpoint the exact note where he fell even without watching the video and just listening to the music. But, again, that's a personal thing. Something that most Yuzu fans will probably share. However, to be honest, casual fans and judges probably will not see any issues with his music choices + cuts.

[kaeryth]

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

The real issue is that his methodology is absolutely unnatural position for your left and right legs . At the rate he's going, in a couple years there might be ankle, legs and maybe hip surgeries incoming. 

 

This is actually what I'm most worried about. I think Uncle Kurt also said it (and I paraphrase) "his deep knee bend is able to save his landings but I can't imagine what his knees and hips are gonna be like in 10 years." I'm really worried about these youngsters going for the shortcut route to medalling. These guys are essentially guinea pigs right now on how much a still growing body can endure all these quads because we may not get an answer until years later. Although, if we take a look at Plushenko and the countless surgery he had it gives as a pretty good idea. 

[SparkleSalad]

3 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 I've watched Yuzu's 2012 WC skate so much I can pinpoint the exact note where he fell even without watching the video and just listening to the music.

 

That's because it's the most dramatic and perfectly timed fall ever.  I actually prefer it to clean - it fits so perfectly with the music and drama. Such is the level of this young man's brilliance that even his mistakes are perfect.

[SSS]

20 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Oh dear...

 

I feel so sorry for this kid. All this music choice (and borrowed bits of choreography) does is highlight his inadequecies and Yuzuru's brilliance. They've done him a great disservice. Yuzuru's intense performance is so burned into my mind that that's what I was seeing in my head the whole time. The contrast couldn't be more striking.

 

I don't like to remark on anyone's potential or lack thereof but, technique aside, there are certain things you can't learn - emotion, soulfulness - and, unfortunately, you need those to be truly great. I really think this music should be off limits, for everyone's sake.

Same. The music sounds so identical, if someone makes an video to compare them side by side, it will look super bad...

 

No...just realized this is my 100th post! Celebrating becoming a baby pooh (in Yuzu's arms) 

[SparkleSalad]

42 minutes ago, SSS said:

Same. The music sounds so identical, if someone makes an video to compare them side by side, it will look super bad...

 

No...just realized this is my 100th post! Celebrating becoming a baby pooh (in Yuzu's arms) 

 

Regardless of whether or not it matters in terms of scoring, and even if he had a better grasp of emotional expression, it's really not good to invite the comparison. Again, it's not a criticism of a hard-working kid doing very difficult things I'm sure none of us can, but whoever is making these decisions for him doesn't seem to be thinking very clearly.

 

 

Congratulations on your newfound Poohdom. (Though Yuzu doesn't look too pleased for some reason. What have you done?!)

[AsteroidB-612]

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

I don't think there's an official score sheet yet from Skate Detroit but from what I've seen Vincent got 177.65 for his FS [99.85 TES / 78.80 PCS -1]. Yuzu's WC 2012 score was 173.99 [91.99 TES / 83 PCS -1]. So, Yuzu's TES with 1 quad (a 4T) is only 7.86 less than a 4 quad program with 4Lz and 4F. I'm a bit confused with the PCS but let's face it, scoring for PCS is always confusing (also, I haven't seen the protocols). So, I don't think the score is that shocking really. It's also still a bit early and the program may change over the season.

 

Personally, I don't think I can enjoy or appreciate it mainly because I've watched Yuzu's 2012 WC skate so much I can pinpoint the exact note where he fell even without watching the video and just listening to the music. But, again, that's a personal thing. Something that most Yuzu fans will probably share. However, to be honest, casual fans and judges probably will not see any issues with his music choices + cuts.

Yeah I think casual fans who have not watched Yuzu's R&J 1.0 might not have the same problem that us Yuzu fans, or honestly any figureskating fan who watched Yuzu's 2012 WC FS have...but anyone who DID watched it will definitely notice , because the music cut is waaaaaay too similar (I would say almost 90%!)  to not have a dejavu moment. Naturally then, it will call for comparison...to one of the most beloved performance of the current god of figureskating. That's some pretty big shoes to fill for Vincent. 

 

But alas that R&J music doesn't belong to Yuzu so of course vincent can still use it, and he probably knows that he will be compared to Yuzu, since he himself had said that he liked that performance, so maybe he is hoping to recreate the same magic with the same dramatic music...but I think it will be very difficult due to the high bar Yuzu set.

 

And it now makes me want to go back to watch Yuzu's R&J 1.0 again haha

so hey, who knows? might be a good thing for Yuzu if more new fans watched Vincent and trace back to Yuzu and turns into new Yuzu fans...cuz I am pretty sure they would be hooked lol

[kaeryth]

Hmmmmm.... it might be too much to say never use the music, it's a warhorse for a reason. Also, honestly, unless you're a Yuzu fan, most people would probably not think about the comparison. I think the problem with Vincent's music is the music cuts and some of the choreography is a bit similar to Yuzu's R+J1. I get the feeling he's trying to pay homage to Yuzu's performance since he did mention that it's one of his favourite performance. Unfortunately, it's hard to replicate the emotional aspect of the program. Nothing to do with Vincent, but the circumstances that lead to that particular skate was something deeply innate and tied with Yuzu's experience. I think it would've been better for him to choose different cuts for the music and use different choreography. But, like I said, it's still early. He and his team might change things around and tweak some things here and there.

[SSS]

14 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Regardless of whether or not it matters in terms of scoring, and even if he had a better grasp of emotional expression, it's really not good to invite the comparison. Again, it's not a criticism of a hard-working kid doing very difficult things I'm sure none of us can, but whoever is making these decisions for him doesn't seem to be thinking very clearly.

 

 

Congratulations on your newfound Poohdom. (Though Yuzu doesn't look too pleased for some reason. What have you done?!)

Yes, I feel sorry for him too. Hope his team will make some changes and it is still early in the season, we surely will see a better version.

 

(We should have more happy Yuzu with happy Pooh emojis~)(And I was so surprised too see all Brian and Tracy's faces last week :D)

[yuzuuu]

my I know where did Vincent said he liked yuzu's program? sorry I'm so not up to date haha

[AsteroidB-612]

18 minutes ago, yuzuuu said:

my I know where did Vincent said he liked yuzu's program? sorry I'm so not up to date haha

I saw the one that's from a long time ago when Vincent was a novice:

http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/06/u-s-novice-champ-zhou-hungry-for-more/

 

He said: 

"He also has taken a liking to 2012 Worlds bronze medalist Yuzuru Hanyu.

“I love watching his dramatic (free) program (from last season)—he put a lot of athleticism and emotion into it,” he said. He is 17 right now, and he’s already a world medalist.”