Programs we remember

[Sombreuil]

1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Yes, there is no doubt Curry suffered, deeply, from all the prejudices of the time. I think he would have enjoyed Johnny indeed but I suppose it says something about slow change when Weir himself suffered a lot from the homophobia of his time. It may very well have cost him in 2010. Heck even today we have certain individuals raising questions over Radford's ability to 'project romance' because goodness, he's gay. The sport is still very far from having dealt properly with their LGBT+ athletes, and their treatment, especially considering internal pressures from those who wish to remain in the closet (I am including judges here as well). Effeminophobia, another thing that affected Curry, is still very much alive and well too.

Overall, yes, it's better but I feel like it's good to remember Curry, and all this achievements, and troubles, as it helps reminds us there is still so much work to be done.

 

@yuzupon yes, he was slow by today's standards but in his case, I'd say it was more by choice. He was very, very controlled in his movements, so this affected it without a doubt. But yes, his lines, the musicality, everything, it was just so lovely!

Totally agree - I'm sure JW would have had more success if it weren't for prejudice- at least those Neanderthal commentators were open about it and could be tackled - not much you can do about the ones that keep quiet, especially if they are in positions of power.  It's very depressing that in 30 years so little progress was made and 40 years on Radford is subject to such idiotic comments.   Reminds me of an interview I read with Rupert Everett who was asked how he could play a romantic lead in 'An Ideal Husband' when he was gay - his response - " Its acting" - I feel the word 'stupid' was there albeit unspoken.

[meoima]

9 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

Katherine Downes is a waste of space as a sports presenter- says too much and reveals her total ignorance and lack of research. I quite like Robin Cousins as a commentator but he doesn't do his homework either - I wish he'd just talk about what's in front of him and leave out the background stuff that he hasn't actually read up on.  

Yeah cause my friend is asking who's the female commentator and I couldn't recall her name. Her comments are silly sometimes. Robin is just like Kurt... sometime they don't bother watching competitions I guess 

[Sombreuil]

I'm probabaly old fashioned but I tend to think of it as their job to bother and it annoys me when they don't.

[kaeryth]

I've actually read a web article by The Guardian comparing John Curry to Yuzuru.

 

Quote

If you wanted to see a memorial to John Curry, it was provided by Yuzuru Hanyu in Nagoya last weekend.

 

... The swiftness, the flow and the precision of the Japanese champion’s movements, in a programme containing three quadruple jumps and seven triples, had the same effect on his audience as the Englishman’s game‑changing displays of grace, poise and exquisite line. And for both men, the beauty of their performance provided an elegant cloak to hide all the countless hours of hard work that had gone into the creation of such supreme athletic prowess.

 

[Sombreuil]

That was pretty much how I felt when I discovered Yuzuru Hanyu after CoC 2014- I had liked other skaters in a casual way but he has been the only one to make me feel the way John Curry did when I was young.  It's the seamless elegance of the performance, the lines, the apparently effortless transition from one element to the next. 

[Lyyli]

I also remember John Curry, and Toller Cranston as well, from my childhood. Actually they are the first male skaters that have stayed in my mind. Don´t remember much about their programs or music choices but their artistic style made an unforgettable impression on me. Even as a child I could notice the difference. There were no adults interested in figure skating around me talking about them or about the figure skating overall. And yes, Yuzu is continuing their artistic legacy in a beautiful way.

 

Your discussion about the attitudes towards the gay skaters brought to my mind the same type of debate concerning the siblings in ID and pairs. I have heard quite many comments about how there is a lack of chemistry between them and how it shows in their programs in a negative way. I don´t agree with them.

 

 

[Sombreuil]

9 minutes ago, Lyyli said:

 

 

Your discussion about the attitudes towards the gay skaters brought to my mind the same type of debate concerning the siblings in ID and pairs. I have heard quite many comments about how there is a lack of chemistry between them and how it shows in their programs in a negative way. I don´t agree with them.

 

 

Nor do I- anyone would think that it was compulsory for every pair/dance team to be in a romantic relationship with each other.  Obviously it happens, but look at Davis and White- childhood friends who probably see each other in a fraternal rather than romantic light, I don't recall anyone saying they had no chemistry.

[Yatagarasu]

9 hours ago, Lyyli said:

I also remember John Curry, and Toller Cranston <snip>

 

Your discussion about the attitudes towards the gay skaters brought to my mind the same type of debate concerning the siblings in ID and pairs. I have heard quite many comments about how there is a lack of chemistry between them and how it shows in their programs in a negative way. I don´t agree with them.

 

Oh yes, Toller definitely. Those two combined really did push the male skating in a different direction! 
And gosh yes, if I hear the whole but they are siblings one more time, I think my head will explode. I am glad the Shibs have mostly managed to prove them wrong but alas, with some people, they're so set in their ways that it's impossible to move them.

 

@Sombreuil Yes, all true! 
I don't know if you remember but Johnny had uphill battles even post 2010, for something as silly as a show (mostly thanks to Lysacek too. Did I mention I do not like that guy?). I mean if we take a look that Radford was only the second person to come out during his career, not post it, then we get the picture. 

[Yatagarasu]

So now we go up, up!

• Kim Yuna of the Republic of Korea skating to Concerto in F by George Gershwin at the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

This is another one of those programs that a lot of people know but you simply cannot not mention it. It's also a skater we know a lot about. Two-time World Champion (2009, 2013), 2009 Four Continents champion, three-time Grand Prix Champion (2006, 2007, 2009), 2006 World Junior champion, 2005 Junior Grand Prix Final champion, 6-time National champion and of course 2010 Olympic champion and 2014 silver medalist. 

 

Going into these 2010 Olympics Kim was a big favorite. The pressure on her was immense as well. Honestly, it really was something to remember and not pleasant at all. But she pushed through, with the help of her then coach Brian Orser as well, and she managed to break the World Record in her Short Program and lead by the time it was over. Then came this Free performance and what is there to say but watch and enjoy! It was another World Record, by a whole 18 points and change; the record she annihilated was already hers too. She became the first South Korean skater to win a medal in figure skating, and this gold medal was a first for South Korea in any other discipline apart from speed-skating in the history of Winter Olympic games. 

 

 

[Sombreuil]

12 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

 

@Sombreuil Yes, all true! 
I don't know if you remember but Johnny had uphill battles even post 2010, for something as silly as a show (mostly thanks to Lysacek too. Did I mention I do not like that guy?). I mean if we take a look that Radford was only the second person to come out during his career, not post it, then we get the picture. 

I remember it very well and we are in agreement on that smug b Lysacek too. Silent bigotry in sport exists pretty much across the board- I think the diving fraternity might have cracked it but that's something I only look at sporadically- a real fan would know whether it's real or on the surface ok but underneath as bad as ever.  There is a lesbian couple in the UK hockey team, but in the main sports people keep their heads down until after r****ment, which is entirely understandable and extremely sad.  

[yuzuangel]

7 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

So now we go up, up!

• Kim Yuna of the Republic of Korea skating to Concerto in F by George Gershwin at the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

This is another one of those programs that a lot of people know but you simply cannot not mention it. It's also a skater we know a lot about. Two-time World Champion (2009, 2013), 2009 Four Continents champion, three-time Grand Prix Champion (2006, 2007, 2009), 2006 World Junior champion, 2005 Junior Grand Prix Final champion, 6-time National champion and of course 2010 Olympic champion and 2014 silver medalist. 

 

Going into these 2010 Olympics Kim was a big favorite. The pressure on her was immense as well. Honestly, it really was something to remember and not pleasant at all. But she pushed through, with the help of her then coach Brian Orser as well, and she managed to break the World Record in her Short Program and lead by the time it was over. Then came this Free performance and what is there to say but watch and enjoy! It was another World Record, by a whole 18 points and change; the record she annihilated was already hers too. She became the first South Korean skater to win a medal in figure skating, and this gold medal was a first for South Korea in any other discipline apart from speed-skating in the history of Winter Olympic games. 

 

 

This program was amazing but my favorite free skate from Yuna is actually Arirang/Homage to Korea even with the mistakes. 

[Yatagarasu]

6 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I remember it very well and we are in agreement on that smug b Lysacek too. Silent bigotry in sport exists pretty much across the board- I think the diving fraternity might have cracked it but that's something I only look at sporadically- a real fan would know whether it's real or on the surface ok but underneath as bad as ever.  There is a lesbian couple in the UK hockey team, but in the main sports people keep their heads down until after r****ment, which is entirely understandable and extremely sad.  

 

Kate and Helen! Yes, I thought that was fab. Of course, we could say that gay women do get somewhat of a pass thanks to some not so nice things but I do think that at the moment it is somewhat better in female sports. 

Yes, Lysacek! And Carroll too actually, the whole crafting of Lysacek's image and PR pre-Olympics had a lot to do with presenting him as 'masculine'. All of it leaves me feeling dreadful but then at least Carroll never quite went to the lengths Lysacek did and right in the open. The whole I was hacked thing was ridiculous. I know now Johnny says they're all right but to be honest, considering his position, I take it as PR diplomacy. It's simply better. Unfortunate but it is how things are. I do wish I could find that article I read for you, about the internal pressures on gay figure skaters, it was quite good but it's escaping me currently. 

(if there's any sport the fraternity will hold and hold it's football!)

[Sombreuil]

9 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Unfortunate but it is how things are. I do wish I could find that article I read for you, about the internal pressures on gay figure skaters, it was quite good but it's escaping me currently. 

(if there's any sport the fraternity will hold and hold it's football!)

I'm not sure if you mean American football or soccer, but they're as bad as each other.  If the articles whereabouts comes back to you I would be interested to read it.

[yuzupon]

9 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

So now we go up, up!

• Kim Yuna of the Republic of Korea skating to Concerto in F by George Gershwin at the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

This is another one of those programs that a lot of people know but you simply cannot not mention it. It's also a skater we know a lot about. Two-time World Champion (2009, 2013), 2009 Four Continents champion, three-time Grand Prix Champion (2006, 2007, 2009), 2006 World Junior champion, 2005 Junior Grand Prix Final champion, 6-time National champion and of course 2010 Olympic champion and 2014 silver medalist. 

 

Going into these 2010 Olympics Kim was a big favorite. The pressure on her was immense as well. Honestly, it really was something to remember and not pleasant at all. But she pushed through, with the help of her then coach Brian Orser as well, and she managed to break the World Record in her Short Program and lead by the time it was over. Then came this Free performance and what is there to say but watch and enjoy! It was another World Record, by a whole 18 points and change; the record she annihilated was already hers too. She became the first South Korean skater to win a medal in figure skating, and this gold medal was a first for South Korea in any other discipline apart from speed-skating in the history of Winter Olympic games. 

 

 

Yuna (and Mao) was the reason I get into figure skating. Although when I was watching that generation, I only focused on the ladies events. I am just months older than her, was struggling with finishing college, and I could not fathom how she could do what she did with all the pressure and lack of substantial support (as in skating federation and fellow national skaters) she had back then. Brian and the training team did a really good job sort of shielding her from the pressure. But you can tell she was feeling it, and the only time she seemed to be enjoying herself was when she was on the ice, skating.

This program was an absolute joy to watch. Yuzu's 2017 Worlds FS was only the second time I feel the same elation I felt when Yuna finished this program. I was holding my breath in the 2nd half of the program and cried with joy when she finished it. Truly remarkable.

(And Mao had to go right after this. I was feeling for her as well.)

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, and note that I enjoyed her skating after her comeback, I wish they had let her r**** when she wanted it. I know why they did not and why she decided to come back. Her skating also went into another, deeper emotional level after that, but oh the drama!

[sallycinnamon]

I still choke up when I watch Yuna's Gershwin free skate from Vancouver. Not only because she skated both her SP and LP perfectly but also because it always makes me think of how much struggle she went through in her junior and senior years and these two performances was the coronation of her brilliant career.

 

The pressure on her was immense and she never had the support from her federation that almost all the other Olympic champions had (not because they didn't support her but mainly because the Korean federation is small and powerless compared to the big ones). Prior to the Olympics, in the 2009/2010 season she couldn't skate this program without mistakes which could have put even more pressure on her. But when it really counted, she always showed how strong she was mentally and could skate perfectly (and this, twice at two Olympic Games and once at the World Championships in 2013 - if we don't count that edge call on her flip in the short program).

 

Her skating during the free skate in Vancouver was effortless and she really made it look so easy as Sandra Bezic said after she finished her program. There are a couple of free skates of Yuna that I like more than Piano Concerto - definitely Arirang, Adios Nonino, and probably Scheherazade and Les Miserables too - but this was Yuna at her very best technically. I also love how she skated so elegantly, light but with much confidence throughout the whole program. As it there was not doubt that she would skate it perfectly.

 

Long live the Queen