Skating on the Planet

[Murieleirum]

43 minutes ago, Xen said:

Footwork practice has the most painful falls. I don't think it's a change of knee positions. 

And the backwards and forwards 3 turns are different. In this case, I'll refer to the forward right inside 3 turn, since that is my strongest 3 turn. You actually apply the most pressure and have a deeper knee bend when you enter the edge. In fact, you kind of transfer the weight from the arch and heel/back section of your foot to the balls of your foot, and you kind of rise up/straighten your leg a bit to relieve the pressure and turn. As for when you should turn, think of the entirety of the 3 turn as drawing a giant semi circle- your forward edge being 1 half of the semi-circle, and the backward edge part being the other half. You turn at the top of the semi-circle, and that's the easiest part of the circle to turn on. Not sure if this helps? 

 

The explanation is quite clear. I do believe I have an image of it (Let's speak Yuzuruese), and I'm wondering if it's because I can't skate backwards on one foot that I can't manage to produce a 3-turn. Or mabe I can learn to skate backwards on one foot through the 3-turns. 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, Murieleirum said:

 

The explanation is quite clear. I do believe I have an image of it (Let's speak Yuzuruese), and I'm wondering if it's because I can't skate backwards on one foot that I can't manage to produce a 3-turn. Or mabe I can learn to skate backwards on one foot through the 3-turns. 

Well you normally do learn backwards and forwards skating and edges before you start 3 turns, since you are essentially going from skating on 1 foot forwards to skating on 1 foot backwards, on the same foot... 

If I had to be Yuzu and be super OCD about which edges to control-freak on, I'd pick the right back outside edge, left forward outside edge, and the left back inside edge. The first one because that's your landing position for all the jumps, assuming you rotate counter-clockwise like him. It is also your launch edge for loop jumps. The second is important for axel entrances, and is usually your entry edge when you 3-turn into your flip jumps and salchows. The third is the edge you have to check and control when you turn into your salchow and your flip jump. 

[Murieleirum]

19 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well you normally do learn backwards and forwards skating and edges before you start 3 turns, since you are essentially going from skating on 1 foot forwards to skating on 1 foot backwards, on the same foot... 

If I had to be Yuzu and be super OCD about which edges to control-freak on, I'd pick the right back outside edge, left forward outside edge, and the left back inside edge. The first one because that's your landing position for all the jumps, assuming you rotate counter-clockwise like him. It is also your launch edge for loop jumps. The second is important for axel entrances, and is usually your entry edge when you 3-turn into your flip jumps and salchows. The third is the edge you have to check and control when you turn into your salchow and your flip jump. 

 

Such knowledge!  I gotta write it all down!

 

To tell the truth, off-ice I actually jump better clockwise... my strongest leg is my left leg, and when I try the Axel, I always find myself better clockwise. Even only doing a pirouette, clockwise feels more stable to me. I guess I'll have to study a bit from Carolina then! 

[Floria]

Hace 4 horas, Xen said:

 Another channel you can check is this one: https://www.youtube.com/user/kseniyaOleg they actually do pictures that show where your weight and pressure should be distributed both on your foot and throughout the move.  

 

Yes, I know them, their approach is more from ice dance perspective, but their videos are great to learn about steps and basic skating skills, because ice dance consists basically of different steps. These videos helped me a lot with inside forward 3-turns and backward 3-turns. 

 

I am still struggling with LFI 3-turn. It is kind of mental problem. I broke my wrist trying it the first time and I now have to warm up enough to be able to do it well. Probably it is all about edges and my coach pointed this out one day. If you enter a 3-turn on the flat of the blade it almost impossible to get it right. 

[Xen]

3 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Such knowledge!  I gotta write it all down!

 

To tell the truth, off-ice I actually jump better clockwise... my strongest leg is my left leg, and when I try the Axel, I always find myself better clockwise. Even only doing a pirouette, clockwise feels more stable to me. I guess I'll have to study a bit from Carolina then! 

I've never met a clockwise skater before! So then your important edges would be the opposite of what I just said-left back outside, right forward outside and right back inside. Also, just practice your edges, forwards and backwards before you go nuts on the 3 turn. The reason why they sometimes say it should be "natural" is that if you hold your edges long enough, at some point it would curve to the degree that you have to turn. That's how you start all your spins.

But the down-up-down knee action, with the turn on the up action, is something you can practice off ice. There's a bit of a rhythm to it, which you'll figure out once you really try. 

 

For 3 turns, I think it is possible to turn on a slightly flatter edge, but it's really easy then to go up too much on the ball of your foot, so you end up catching your toepick and skid on your turn.

 

My worst ones are the backwards ones...I can't seem to do backwards 3 turns unless I do them as part of a continuous 3-turn sequence...

[Murieleirum]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

Also, just practice your edges, forwards and backwards before you go nuts on the 3 turn. The reason why they sometimes say it should be "natural" is that if you hold your edges long enough, at some point it would curve to the degree that you have to turn. That's how you start all your spins.

But the down-up-down knee action, with the turn on the up action, is something you can practice off ice. There's a bit of a rhythm to it, which you'll figure out once you really try. 

 

For 3 turns, I think it is possible to turn on a slightly flatter edge, but it's really easy then to go up too much on the ball of your foot, so you end up catching your toepick and skid on your turn.

 

How do you practice backwards edges? I mean, I know the intuition says 'same way you do the forward edges', but I can't really do backwards chasse, can I? (I mean, yes they exist, but they're hard!) I've tried gliding backwards with two feet and then lifting one up, but with my left foot I fail, and with the right foot I curve to the left without wanting to  Also, I've never quite understood how much do you have to look behind you, and how much you don't have to. 

 

I have practiced 3-turns off-ice! I kinda like the motion of it, with both feet. It's just the ice that's the problem (LOL!) but I'll get through it. I've just been too shy to ask for advice, so it's hard to correct my mistakes when I'm not really sure what are they. 

[yuzuangel]

27 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Also, I've never quite understood how much do you have to look behind you, and how much you don't have to. 

hmm I guess for me a slight twist at my waist gives me about 120-160 degrees of vision (if looking straight forward is 0 degrees). If everyone is going CCW then you can see everyone sort of in front of you to make sure you don't run into them. Another way to describe it might be that you can see everything inside your circle, if you are going on a curve.

 

27 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

How do you practice backwards edges? I mean, I know the intuition says 'same way you do the forward edges', but I can't really do backwards chasse, can I? (I mean, yes they exist, but they're hard!

 

have you tried pushing and gliding on one foot around the rink until you're more comfortable doing it? you can also do it on a circle.

[Murieleirum]

28 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

hmm I guess for me a slight twist at my waist gives me about 120-160 degrees of vision (if looking straight forward is 0 degrees). If everyone is going CCW then you can see everyone sort of in front of you to make sure you don't run into them. Another way to describe it might be that you can see everything inside your circle, if you are going on a curve.

 

 

have you tried pushing and gliding on one foot around the rink until you're more comfortable doing it? you can also do it on a circle.

 

Mmmh I should try, but I think I know what you mean. I will have to come back to you in three months 

[moni]

4 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

How do you practice backwards edges? I mean, I know the intuition says 'same way you do the forward edges', but I can't really do backwards chasse, can I? (I mean, yes they exist, but they're hard!) I've tried gliding backwards with two feet and then lifting one up, but with my left foot I fail, and with the right foot I curve to the left without wanting to  Also, I've never quite understood how much do you have to look behind you, and how much you don't have to. 

 

I have practiced 3-turns off-ice! I kinda like the motion of it, with both feet. It's just the ice that's the problem (LOL!) but I'll get through it. I've just been too shy to ask for advice, so it's hard to correct my mistakes when I'm not really sure what are they. 

 

When I was learning skating backwards, we practiced these exercises/moves in the following order. It takes some time (weeks or months, depends on how often you skate) but don't give up and just be patient - you'll get it. 

1. swizzles(lemons)
2. half swizzles
3. swizzles with change of edge (crossing your feet when they meet)
4. I don't know what's the name of this move: it's like slalom (skiing) but backwards - both feet together and using only knees and edges to push... anybody knows the name of it? 
5. chasse
6. crossovers

7. glide on (1 foot) outside edge 
8. outside crossrolls
9. glide on (1 foot) inside edge
10. inside crossrolls
11. change of edge on 1 foot (the initial goal was to do 2 changes: starting on inside edge and doing inside-outside-inside change, but now after 3 years of skating I can do as many as I want)

 

Also, I would advice you to use off-ice spinner. It not only good for spins but you can use it for practicing all the turns (you can feel the inside and outside edge on it) and to find your balance (you can practice spirals, too) and later even take off for jumps. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Xen said:

Footwork practice has the most painful falls. I don't think it's a change of knee positions. 

And the backwards and forwards 3 turns are different. In this case, I'll refer to the forward right inside 3 turn, since that is my strongest 3 turn. You actually apply the most pressure and have a deeper knee bend when you enter the edge. In fact, you kind of transfer the weight from the arch and heel/back section of your foot to the balls of your foot, and you kind of rise up/straighten your leg a bit to relieve the pressure and turn. As for when you should turn, think of the entirety of the 3 turn as drawing a giant semi circle- your forward edge being 1 half of the semi-circle, and the backward edge part being the other half. You turn at the top of the semi-circle, and that's the easiest part of the circle to turn on. Not sure if this helps? 

 

This is a really good explanation - it's exactly how it was explained to me when I was learning them. You have to think about the position of your shoulders and arms (LFO, RFI, LBO, RBI 3turns: left arm in front of you, right one to the side and RFO, LFI, RBO, LBI: right arm in front of you, left one to the side) but the turn itself happens thanks to he bending of your knee and the weight transfer from the arch to the balls of your feet. And your head is also important - always look to the direction you're going to turn. 

 

I'd like to add that the backward 3turns are almost the same as forward ones, the only difference is the weight transfer - it's from the arch to the heel.

 

On 21. 6. 2017 at 8:02 PM, Meiyz said:

Hi guys! I started skating last month and am planning on taking group classes soon. Not sure if this is the best place to ask but does anyone have any recommendation on boots for beginners? The rental costs add up and they don't give me enough support. I was looking at Riedell 133 and 229 (older version so its about the same price as the 133).. I feel like 229 might be overbooting but some adults do overboot as they wear them down faster than kids. I'm worried the 133's might only last a few months and upgrading is expensive. What did you guys use as beginners?

 

I have Edea Chorus (my coach is an Edea dealer, so all the kids at our rink have basically no choice but use Edea, LOL) and I'm very satisfied with them - now I have my 2nd pair. My first pair was Edea Overture and it took me almost 2 years to wore them down.

 

I don't have any experience with Riedell but I don't think you have to worry about wearing them down so soon. And in general, if you're  a beginner, it's better to use the boots for beginners. Those are softer, so it'll be easier for you to learn basics (especially bending knees properly, using ankles, feeling for the ice etc.) You'll need an upgrade once you're able to jump axels, but it'll take some time (most probably some years). 

[Meiyz]

On 6/21/2017 at 4:54 PM, Floria said:

 

I have Wifa Prima Hobby. These are for first skating classes (single jumps and simple spins). It is not the cheapest option, there are other brands with cheaper boots for the same skating level but mine are so comfortable!   Wearing them was a pleasure from the first day. When you are not so young you start to appreciate these things .

Normally these boots come with very simple blades, so I changed it with Jackson Ultima Mirage, these are intermediate ones, so I will not have to upgrade soon. 

 

 

I have found this: https://www.kinziescloset.com/skate-comparison-guide.html It mentions both models from your post, so you can find which one is suitable for your level. 

 

Thanks! The link was exactly what I needed!!  

 

@Xen I went to a pro shop but they only carried Riedells, I got fitted though so that's something...

 

1 hour ago, moni said:

I have Edea Chorus (my coach is an Edea dealer, so all the kids at our rink have basically no choice but use Edea, LOL) and I'm very satisfied with them - now I have my 2nd pair. My first pair was Edea Overture and it took me almost 2 years to wore them down.

 

I don't have any experience with Riedell but I don't think you have to worry about wearing them down so soon. And in general, if you're  a beginner, it's better to use the boots for beginners. Those are softer, so it'll be easier for you to learn basics (especially bending knees properly, using ankles, feeling for the ice etc.) You'll need an upgrade once you're able to jump axels, but it'll take some time (most probably some years). 

I just looked up your skates and saw the price...  Thanks for the advice! I might just go with the lower stiffness then 

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it! It's so hard to choose something that will last long since they are so expensive and I'm just a broke college kid 

[yuzuangel]

I haven't had many different boots, and most of them were risport (which actually don't seem so popular) because my old coach probably was a Risport dealer. i had a risport rf3 which i later lost (my luggage got lost in boston... ) and then i got the royales which i think got discontinued and replaced with these.

 

i started out with jackson mystiques but they're like a step above rental boots. not much of a rocker on the skate to spin and definitely not enough support for jumps IMO.

 

anyway, my experience was the the rf3s took a long time (maybe 24 hours of skating) to break in and were really painful while they were breaking in. in comparison, the royales were not painful at all to break in for some reason. but i have weird feet, so...idk. i actually need to retie my laces every time after warming up before i could do jumps bc they're never snug enough the first time around. (this could also be a psychological thing.) they're supposed to be for doubles/triples but they're not actually that stiff to me, and i'm only doing single  i know they say not to overboot though, buuttt i also don't want to buy $500+ boots every two years. 

 

the worst part about going from those premounted boots -> actual boots is the toe pick. getting used to where it is. i've had so many terrible falls when first breaking in the boots where i'm just going forward and bam, toepicked the ice. it's really embarrassing 

[Murieleirum]

11 hours ago, moni said:

When I was learning skating backwards, we practiced these exercises/moves in the following order. It takes some time (weeks or months, depends on how often you skate) but don't give up and just be patient - you'll get it. 

1. swizzles(lemons)
2. half swizzles
3. swizzles with change of edge (crossing your feet when they meet)
4. I don't know what's the name of this move: it's like slalom (skiing) but backwards - both feet together and using only knees and edges to push... anybody knows the name of it? 
5. chasse
6. crossovers

7. glide on (1 foot) outside edge 
8. outside crossrolls
9. glide on (1 foot) inside edge
10. inside crossrolls
11. change of edge on 1 foot (the initial goal was to do 2 changes: starting on inside edge and doing inside-outside-inside change, but now after 3 years of skating I can do as many as I want)

 

Also, I would advice you to use off-ice spinner. It not only good for spins but you can use it for practicing all the turns (you can feel the inside and outside edge on it) and to find your balance (you can practice spirals, too) and later even take off for jumps. 

 

I have to learn from number 5 on  Yes, patience really is fundamental, isn't it?

During this year, even if I didn't have specific goals in mind when I went skating, there were times when I left the ice with bitterness because I felt like it was a bad day and I didn't improve anything, and days where I managed to do just one little thing I had never done before, so I felt happy.

 

What is an off-ice spinner? I've never heard it before.

[Xen]

8 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

I haven't had many different boots, and most of them were risport (which actually don't seem so popular) because my old coach probably was a Risport dealer. i had a risport rf3 which i later lost (my luggage got lost in boston... ) and then i got the royales which i think got discontinued and replaced with these.

 

i started out with jackson mystiques but they're like a step above rental boots. not much of a rocker on the skate to spin and definitely not enough support for jumps IMO.

 

anyway, my experience was the the rf3s took a long time (maybe 24 hours of skating) to break in and were really painful while they were breaking in. in comparison, the royales were not painful at all to break in for some reason. but i have weird feet, so...idk. i actually need to retie my laces every time after warming up before i could do jumps bc they're never snug enough the first time around. (this could also be a psychological thing.) they're supposed to be for doubles/triples but they're not actually that stiff to me, and i'm only doing single  i know they say not to overboot though, buuttt i also don't want to buy $500+ boots every two years. 

 

the worst part about going from those premounted boots -> actual boots is the toe pick. getting used to where it is. i've had so many terrible falls when first breaking in the boots where i'm just going forward and bam, toepicked the ice. it's really embarrassing 

 How do the Risport Royales feel? Are they lighter?  I'm planning to fly half way across the country to get fitted since the last time I bought online, I ended up at least 1 size too big..and am considering switching to Royal Elite or Royal Pro. My current pair is RF3! The other I was thinking was possibly switching over to Edea, but I'm not sure if Edea or Risport have the narrower ankles and heels. But overall I like the risports, they are super comfy for me. 

 

By the way, does anyone here have experience with the Wilson Four Aces blades? I'm currently on Cornation Aces, and am considering switching to four aces- besides the straight pick vs cross-cut pick, are there any other major differences? 

 

Riedell...ugh I shudder when I think of them. My second pair of boots were riedells from hell, and my first time wearing them, the cuff of the boot cut into my legs. I initially thought it was just sweat accumulating, but nope it was blood...the cuff of the boots left nice bloody marks alone my legs. Took about 3 weeks to fade away. First time using gel pads. 

[moni]

17 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I have to learn from number 5 on  Yes, patience really is fundamental, isn't it?

During this year, even if I didn't have specific goals in mind when I went skating, there were times when I left the ice with bitterness because I felt like it was a bad day and I didn't improve anything, and days where I managed to do just one little thing I had never done before, so I felt happy.

 

What is an off-ice spinner? I've never heard it before.

Yes, patience is very important. The key is just don't give up and the improvement will gradually come.
But even more frustrating is when you've already mastred some trick but the next day/next couple of days you can't do it at all. It's like . But later, you'll be able to do it again. Sometimes there are good days and sometimes bad. Really, the best advice I can give you is just don't give up. 

 

Re: spinner

You can read some information about it here. And here is an example how you can use it to practice (this vid includes only spins but you can use to it improve yout balance and posture, too).

For example, Yuzu uses it, too. You can see he's standing on it while playing with his ball. It looks easy but when you try it you'll find out that it actually isn't 

 

1:14-1:18

 

 

[Murieleirum]

13 hours ago, moni said:

Yes, patience is very important. The key is just don't give up and the improvement will gradually come.
But even more frustrating is when you've already mastred some trick but the next day/next couple of days you can't do it at all. It's like . But later, you'll be able to do it again. Sometimes there are good days and sometimes bad. Really, the best advice I can give you is just don't give up. 

 

Re: spinner

You can read some information about it here. And here is an example how you can use it to practice (this vid includes only spins but you can use to it improve yout balance and posture, too).

For example, Yuzu uses it, too. You can see he's standing on it while playing with his ball. It looks easy but when you try it you'll find out that it actually isn't 

 

Definitely happened more than once that I learned something and the next day I completely forgot. Especially with forward crossovers, I took, like, two months to stabilize LFO - RFO (I hope this is how you describe it), and it came and went from my memory without any sign of stability xD I was just so afraid to trip on my feet!

 

And the spinner does look like a terribly difficult excercise for balance! Yuzu makes everything look easy tho