2019–20 Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) Thread

[Purple]

5 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

About Astra-Zeneca, here is what I know: the incidence of blood clotting side effects with Astra-Zeneca is much lower than with many other common drugs that are given for things like heart conditions. It is concerning, but I expect that once the situation has been investigated and is better understood, most countries will probably accept and approve Astra-Zeneca for use after all. 

 

I also know that of the first 3 companies who brought the vaccine to market, Astra-Zeneca is the only one who said that they would make sure that there was 'broad and equitable' access to their vaccine:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/11/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-a-boost-for-global-access-but-huge-inequality-remains/

 

I can think of lots of reasons why this wouldn't go over well in their industry. So it's not a surprise to me if the risks of AstraZeneca would then get over-exaggerated by those who stand to gain from selling a more expensive vaccine. 

 

AstraZeneca vaccines are now being made available at pharmacies here in Ontario to people over the age of 55. 

 

As for side effects, it's important to understand what those numbers mean. When they say the side-effect rate is 3.5%, first of all, what side-effects do they mean? having a sore arm is a side effect. having a headache is a side-effect. dying is also a side effect. So do 3.5% of all doses result in people dying, or do they result in having a sore arm, or is it that 3.5% of doses given cause the patient to experience something, but it could be either very light or very serious? 

 

 

 

 

 

The comparison I made was with those contracted the virus, not with those who died. 

 

Ratio with population : 363,000 cases/32 million population = 1.1%

Out of the 363,000 cases, 1,345 have died = 0.37% death rate.

 

The 3.5% side effects from Pfizer as reported by Health Minister are the official figures. Unofficially it is said to be higher, esp after Pfizer 2nd dose. 

The figures are expected to higher once they start with the senior citizens & high risk groups.

 

Regardless, 3.5% is higher than 1.1%. 

 

A vast majority of those who tested positive are asymptomatic, if I remember the stats correctly more than 70%. cos my country's policy is all close contacts must be tested even if they dont show symptoms.

 

There are risks to take sure, try telling that to the next of kin of the frontliners who have died after taking the vaccine.

They rush the vaccines out too fast, the standard vaccines we have now took years of clinical trials.

 

For forum members who decided to take vaccines, hopefully the vaccine given(if cannot choose) will not cause  adverse side effects to you.

[barbara]

1 hour ago, Purple said:

The comparison I made was with those contracted the virus, not with those who died. 

 

Ratio with population : 363,000 cases/32 million population = 1.1%

Out of the 363,000 cases, 1,345 have died = 0.37% death rate.

 

The 3.5% side effects from Pfizer as reported by Health Minister are the official figures. Unofficially it is said to be higher, esp after Pfizer 2nd dose. 

The figures are expected to higher once they start with the senior citizens & high risk groups.

 

Regardless, 3.5% is higher than 1.1%. 

 

A vast majority of those who tested positive are asymptomatic, if I remember the stats correctly more than 70%. cos my country's policy is all close contacts must be tested even if they dont show symptoms.

 

There are risks to take sure, try telling that to the next of kin of the frontliners who have died after taking the vaccine.

They rush the vaccines out too fast, the standard vaccines we have now took years of clinical trials.

 

For forum members who decided to take vaccines, hopefully the vaccine given(if cannot choose) will not cause  adverse side effects to you.

I am afraid you have been given misinformation about the relative risks of getting Covid and receiving a vaccine.  In the US, over 563,000 people are dead from Covid.  Right now, the death rate is about 2% but it was higher (closer to 5%) before some effective ways of battling advanced Covid. Roughly one third of the survivors of serious cases of Covid have long lasting health issues.  Your chance of getting seriously ill and/or dying from Covid is 0 ZERO if you have been vaccinated.  Some people may still get a little sick, but not seriously.  The side effects of both Moderna and Pfizer are minimal.  The second dose is almost always the one with more of a reaction, but that's not making you sick - it's activating antibodies and you just feel crummy for a day or two.  Of the 7 million people vaccinated with the Johnson and Johnson, 6 have had serious side effects and one has died.  One.  No one has died from receiving Moderna or Pfizer. Not one person.  And feeling a little crummy, with a headache and a fever, for a day to protect yourself from becoming seriously ill, possibly dying or facing lifelong negative effects, is well worth it.

 

Seriously - if you are being told that frontline workers have died as a result of being vaccinated, you are not being told the truth.  Get whichever vaccine you can as soon as you are able (or your age group is allowed).

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Purple said:

The 3.5% side effects from Pfizer as reported by Health Minister are the official figures. Unofficially it is said to be higher, esp after Pfizer 2nd dose. 

The figures are expected to higher once they start with the senior citizens & high risk groups.

 

Right. Ok. So I have had my first dose of the Pfizer. I did have a side effect.  My arm was sore at the injection site for approximately 90 minutes afterwards. I went home, had dinner, slept well, and woke up the next morning feeling more energetic, healthy, and happy than I have in years. I literally felt like someone had given my immune system a boost. (Well I guess that's exactly what happened.) I consider this also a side effect - not all side effects are negative. 

 

My sister-in-law (who is an ER nurse) has received both doses of Pfizer. Both doses made her feel like she had the flu for about 24 hours, the second worse than the first, so she spent the day in bed and was fine afterwards. So, this is also a side effect. She considers two days in bed a small price to pay for knowing she won't die just from doing her job now. 

 

There have been deaths due to the Pfizer. A nurse in Alaska was reported to have died of extreme anaphylactic shock after taking a dose of Pfizer. As it turned out, she had an immediate allergic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine. So, now, the vaccination clinics here are keeping people under observation for the first 15 minutes after receiving the vaccine, to make sure no one has a sudden and fatal allergic reaction - which of course will occur very quickly after contact with the allergen. 

 

Any new vaccine will have unexpected results in some people; it depends on the individual receiving it. Under normal circumstances, these events are more-or-less invisible because they play out over years or decades, rather than in the matter of weeks or months. But rest assured, every vaccine ever devised has had it's problems and people still trust them and take them because the alternative of getting the diseases is far worse. Ask anyone who is old enough to remember polio or smallpox. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

More info re: AstraZeneca:

 

[Purple]

22 hours ago, barbara said:

I am afraid you have been given misinformation about the relative risks of getting Covid and receiving a vaccine.  In the US, over 563,000 people are dead from Covid.  Right now, the death rate is about 2% but it was higher (closer to 5%) before some effective ways of battling advanced Covid. Roughly one third of the survivors of serious cases of Covid have long lasting health issues.  Your chance of getting seriously ill and/or dying from Covid is 0 ZERO if you have been vaccinated.  Some people may still get a little sick, but not seriously.  The side effects of both Moderna and Pfizer are minimal.  The second dose is almost always the one with more of a reaction, but that's not making you sick - it's activating antibodies and you just feel crummy for a day or two.  Of the 7 million people vaccinated with the Johnson and Johnson, 6 have had serious side effects and one has died.  One.  No one has died from receiving Moderna or Pfizer. Not one person.  And feeling a little crummy, with a headache and a fever, for a day to protect yourself from becoming seriously ill, possibly dying or facing lifelong negative effects, is well worth it.

 

Seriously - if you are being told that frontline workers have died as a result of being vaccinated, you are not being told the truth.  Get whichever vaccine you can as soon as you are able (or your age group is allowed).

Officially on paper, yes, of course they will not list cause of death as from vaccination.

 

But over here, we know that the 1st batch for frontliners & politicians is Pfizer. They felt unwell after taking the vaccine, after that its either end up in ICU or pass away in sleep.  Pass away within 1 to 2 weeks after taking the vaccine. Official cause given is mostly heart attack.

 

People I know of the side effects is not just headache, fever. Blood pressure shoot up above 160/100, this is where I think it may cause heart attack like what happened to the frontliners who died.

This is just Pfizer. Sinovac & Astra Zeneca is have another list of issues.

 

I'm from the generation that went through H1N1 in 2009. Western countries were less impacted by H1N1 back then. 

Personally, I have found H1N1 to be 2X more scary & lethal than Covid 19. Covid 19 is slowburn style compared to SARS & H1N1.

 

Each country is different. We are a tropical country with 1.1 infection rate and 0.37% death rate. 

2% of the population( or less) has been vaccinated thus far so the 0.37% figure can consider as without vaccination.

 

I can understand countries with 4 seasons esp western countries to be more concerned on vaccination. Asian countries in general have  more strict SOP rules & it is enforced with fines. 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:40 PM, Purple said:

But over here, we know that the 1st batch for frontliners & politicians is Pfizer. They felt unwell after taking the vaccine, after that its either end up in ICU or pass away in sleep.  Pass away within 1 to 2 weeks after taking the vaccine. Official cause given is mostly heart attack.

 

People I know of the side effects is not just headache, fever. Blood pressure shoot up above 160/100, this is where I think it may cause heart attack like what happened to the frontliners who died.

Ah, now I understand. 

 

Nothing like that has been reported here, and I  know with the way our news media is, it would not have gone unnoticed if it had happened  here.  I certainly would be a lot more hesitant about the vaccine if that kind of thing were happening in my country. 

 

It's strange, though. You'd think if it happened in one country, it would happen in others. I wonder why only Malaysia? 

[JanMary]

I can quite get the feeling. For example in Hong Kong, we now have only less than 10 local cases everyday (we have more than 7M population), and everything is quite normal (except mask-wearing all the time, no travel abroad, max. 4 people allowed on same restaurant table, no dine-in after 10 p.m.). These are not causing too much trouble for most people. Many people around me are not feeling the urgency for vaccination, especially after hearing so many side effects from news. 

 

But sometimes I would think, the virus will not just magically disappear and we in the end have to go back to "normal" one day. How can we return to normal if the vaccination rate is low? Waiting for some super drug to be found? 

 

But still, people should have choice. No one should be forced in the name of the society or economy or anything else. I also hope everyone can get a fair chance to choose. Vaccine is still only available for some people in some countries now. 

[Sukigirl]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:36 AM, Purple said:

The comparison I made was with those contracted the virus, not with those who died. 

 

Ratio with population : 363,000 cases/32 million population = 1.1%

Out of the 363,000 cases, 1,345 have died = 0.37% death rate.

 

The 3.5% side effects from Pfizer as reported by Health Minister are the official figures. Unofficially it is said to be higher, esp after Pfizer 2nd dose. 

The figures are expected to higher once they start with the senior citizens & high risk groups.

 

Regardless, 3.5% is higher than 1.1%. 

 

A vast majority of those who tested positive are asymptomatic, if I remember the stats correctly more than 70%. cos my country's policy is all close contacts must be tested even if they dont show symptoms.

 

There are risks to take sure, try telling that to the next of kin of the frontliners who have died after taking the vaccine.

They rush the vaccines out too fast, the standard vaccines we have now took years of clinical trials.

 

For forum members who decided to take vaccines, hopefully the vaccine given(if cannot choose) will not cause  adverse side effects to you.

About the side effects. I’m from Singapore, and I took my Pfizer doses in March and April. I’m an educator and have priority. First dose gave me a sore arm and nothing else. Second dose had stronger side effects: headache which was the most annoying, plus fatigue and nausea. It went away after 48 hrs. But these side effects are a good thing. They mean that the body is producing an immune response to the virus, so that the next time it encounters something similar, ie, COVID, it’ll know how to fight it. So the stronger the side effects, the better actually as it signals a strong immune response.

 

If the 3.5% refers to the rate of vaccinated people who encounter side effects like this, it’s normal and not something to avoid. 

 

People have suffered severe reactions with some leading to deaths, ie. anaphylactic shocks, blood clots etc. But my understanding is that these are like less than 1%.

[barbara]

2 hours ago, JanMary said:

I can quite get the feeling. For example in Hong Kong, we now have only less than 10 local cases everyday (we have more than 7M population), and everything is quite normal (except mask-wearing all the time, no travel abroad, max. 4 people allowed on same restaurant table, no dine-in after 10 p.m.). These are not causing too much trouble for most people. Many people around me are not feeling the urgency for vaccination, especially after hearing so many side effects from news. 

 

But sometimes I would think, the virus will not just magically disappear and we in the end have to go back to "normal" one day. How can we return to normal if the vaccination rate is low? Waiting for some super drug to be found? 

 

But still, people should have choice. No one should be forced in the name of the society or economy or anything else. I also hope everyone can get a fair chance to choose. Vaccine is still only available for some people in some countries now. 

Agree that it shouldn't be mandatory for the general population, but we all need to understand that this will not magically disappear.  Vaccinations are the only hope, and the sooner the better - especially with every outbreak somewhere the virus has the opportunity to mutate. Most school districts in the US require certain vaccinations for children to attend public school (like the standard measles, mumps, rubella vaccines). There are a growing number of "anti-vaxers" and their children generally go to private schools, or church schools.  They are also responsible for outbreaks of diseases like the measles, and measles can cause all sorts of bad outcomes, including brain damage and death. German measles (rubella) cause minor effects in those infected but causes serious birth defects (and miscarriage) if contracted during early pregnancy. BAD.

Many colleges and universities will be requiring vaccinations against Covid for re-entry this fall.  I don't know what the public school system will be requiring for grades k-12 but I would anticipate that many school districts will require vaccinations to prevent outbreaks and the inevitable shutdown of schools, again.

And my heart goes out to all those living in Hong Kong during such a tumultuous and uncertain time.

[JanMary]

13 hours ago, barbara said:

Agree that it shouldn't be mandatory for the general population, but we all need to understand that this will not magically disappear.  Vaccinations are the only hope, and the sooner the better - especially with every outbreak somewhere the virus has the opportunity to mutate. Most school districts in the US require certain vaccinations for children to attend public school (like the standard measles, mumps, rubella vaccines). There are a growing number of "anti-vaxers" and their children generally go to private schools, or church schools.  They are also responsible for outbreaks of diseases like the measles, and measles can cause all sorts of bad outcomes, including brain damage and death. German measles (rubella) cause minor effects in those infected but causes serious birth defects (and miscarriage) if contracted during early pregnancy. BAD.

Many colleges and universities will be requiring vaccinations against Covid for re-entry this fall.  I don't know what the public school system will be requiring for grades k-12 but I would anticipate that many school districts will require vaccinations to prevent outbreaks and the inevitable shutdown of schools, again.

I would say most of Hong Kongers are not anti-vaccination, just not feeling the urgency. Now the government is warning that BioNTech will not be available after August and we will only have Sinovac afterwards (which is known for less-effective), I guess many will try to get the BioNTech before the DDL.

 

13 hours ago, barbara said:

And my heart goes out to all those living in Hong Kong during such a tumultuous and uncertain time.

Thank you very much. Hope we will see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

[rockstaryuzu]

On 4/16/2021 at 12:47 PM, JanMary said:

But sometimes I would think, the virus will not just magically disappear and we in the end have to go back to "normal" one day. How can we return to normal if the vaccination rate is low? Waiting for some super drug to be found? 

 

But still, people should have choice. No one should be forced in the name of the society or economy or anything else. I also hope everyone can get a fair chance to choose. Vaccine is still only available for some people in some countries now. 

Both these things are true. However, in the end, the need to return to normality is going to win out for most people. Not to mention the fact that being vaccinated really does reduce your risk of dying from a COVID infection, as we're starting to see. I don't think most of the side effects being reported from the vaccines are in any way out of the ordinary for any new vaccine. The reason they seem so threatening and stick out so much is because they're all occurring together in a short period of time and being loudly reported. Normally it would take months or even years for all such side effects to come to light with a new vaccine. 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:34 AM, JanMary said:

Now the government is warning that BioNTech will not be available after August and we will only have Sinovac afterwards (which is known for less-effective), I guess many will try to get the BioNTech before the DDL.

That seems a bit odd. I wonder why they're saying that. In any case, I would go for the Pfizer-BioNTec if you have the chance. Most of the early data coming in is very promising, whereas the Sinovac seems to have issues around effectiveness 

[JanMary]

1 minute ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Both these things are true. However, in the end, the need to return to normality is going to win out for most people. Not to mention the fact that being vaccinated really does reduce your risk of dying from a COVID infection, as we're starting to see. I don't think the side effect being reported from the vaccines are in any way out of the ordinary for any new vaccine. The reason they seem so threatening and stick out so much is because they're all occurring together in a short period of time and being loudly reported. Normally it would take months or even years for all such side effects to come to light with a new vaccine. 

 

 

I agree. I have only a possible counter point here, probably not convincing, but still:

 

Not all vaccines are having high efficiency. For example in Hong Kong, one out of two current options is Sinovac, which is reported to have only 50% efficiency. Also for example I know in mainland China, people are vaccinated before the 3rd phase result of the vaccine comes out. If people are left with this option only, and without knowing the exact efficiency and side effects of vaccine, I would fully understand their choice not to be vaccinated so soon.

[JanMary]

5 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

That seems a bit odd. I wonder why they're saying that. In any case, I would go for the Pfizer-BioNTec if you have the chance. Most of the early data coming in is very promising, whereas the Sinovac seems to have issues around effectiveness 

I know, I also heard rumours that in Mainland China they are stopping Sinovac, and another vaccine, because of "out of stock". But people have their guesses anyway. 

[barbara]

1 hour ago, JanMary said:

I agree. I have only a possible counter point here, probably not convincing, but still:

 

Not all vaccines are having high efficiency. For example in Hong Kong, one out of two current options is Sinovac, which is reported to have only 50% efficiency. Also for example I know in mainland China, people are vaccinated before the 3rd phase result of the vaccine comes out. If people are left with this option only, and without knowing the exact efficiency and side effects of vaccine, I would fully understand their choice not to be vaccinated so soon.

Annual flu shots have a 40-60% efficacy rate yet seriously impact the number of flu cases annually. 50% is so much better than nothing at all.  And, as @rockstaryuzu pointed out, your chances of getting very ill, having to be hospitalized or dying are significantly lowered if you have been vaccinated.