General Yuzuru Chat

[Lyyli]

17 hours ago, MrPudding said:

So was anyone here a fan of Yuzu since Sochi 2014? I became a fan after the Olympics so I need advice from those who experienced the olympic season. The anxiety I get is too much reading about 4 Lutz and more combo, 10 pairs of skating boots and maybe 5/6 quads, training 4 Flip like a beast, training and perfecting 4 Loop, better skating skills and more quads... and all we get for Yuzu is that we know he is training hard and that nothing is concrete yet... I mean.. I like that Yuzu is on the low radar so he can focus but at the same time reading about the other skater's preparation is really hard..

 

Sorry for late reply. I´ve always been nervous for my favorite skaters and so it is going to be this season too. I just try to accept that and hope for the best.

 

Compared to previous Oly season this one is different for Yuzu and for his fans too, at least for me. In Sochi many expected Patrick to take the gold though Yuzu did beat him in GPF. Now Yuzu is the favorite, but I believe it is not a disadvantage for him. Mentally he has gone through a lot after Sochi and knows well what he is capable of. I guess Shoma is now in the same kind of a position where Yuzu was in Sochi.

 

At the moment I feel very optimistic for Yuzu because of the last season in spite of the fact that it was difficult for him. The quads made it  hard but anyway in the end he learned what he wanted to learn, made progress and managed to win the most important competitions GPF and WC. That is a very good sign imo. In Helsinki he showed such mental strength that makes me feel less nervous for the Oly season. He surely keeps in mind how he trained hard, prepared for the competition and how he found the mood for the clean FS in Helsinki, working hard with the music, like he said afterwards. He is also the best male skater overall so there are good reasons to feel optimistic imo. The quad battle makes the situation unpredictable though, but the quads are risky for each skater. The more quads, the more risks. We´ll see what happens when the season begins.
 

[Eclair]

So Yuzuru won't be at Japan Open? Is he attending Finlandia Trophy this year? Or maybe Nebelhorn?  

 

I think right now, if everyone went clean, Yuzuru is obviously the best out there - best jumping technique, transitions, complex and intriguing choreography and expression. I would love to see him skate clean programs at the Olympics (single event not team event!), so I'm all for the keep the 4 quads but don't try 5, because he doesn't need them to win. If he wants to try a 5 quad program, he can still continue after next season, right? 

 

I don't think Nathan with 6 or 7 quads, even if clean, deserves to win over a clean Yuzuru with 4 quads, because Nathan would have to disregard the performance even more than in his LP last season and it would be a travesty if that got him higher PCS than 82. It's not impossible though, but it would be kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against jumping many quads, my favorite men's skater is Boyang after all , but I'm a LOT for performing and transitions. It's really a crucial thing in figure skating. 

[Katt]

55 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Yeah, you're right, plus it would allow them to do two 3T combos. Which is basically what I'm proposing for Yuzu if he adds the 4Lz. And it keeps with their philosophy more, at least with Patrick's. I do think if no changes are made to SP, they might eventually consider risking 4 quads. Javi probably more than Patrick, though, because Patrick will also be adding a second quad to his SP and he'll already struggle with that. So I think a 2-quad SP and 3-quad layout might be more likely for him at this stage. As for Javi, it'll depend on what he thinks he'll need to secure a podium place at Olys. 

 

The season will tell, as it unfolds. 

Tbh I would love to see Yuzu's 4 types of quad layout than 5quads. Reasons are the same : less change, less risk, still way higher bv. I think Patrick will focus on 2quad SP more. As for Javi, you're right. At the beginning of last season, most people still thought his strategy was right, but I think the quad race turned out wilder than anybody could expect 

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, Eclair said:

So Yuzuru won't be at Japan Open? Is he attending Finlandia Trophy this year? Or maybe Nebelhorn?  

 

I think right now, if everyone went clean, Yuzuru is obviously the best out there - best jumping technique, transitions, complex and intriguing choreography and expression. I would love to see him skate clean programs at the Olympics (single event not team event!), so I'm all for the keep the 4 quads but don't try 5, because he doesn't need them to win. If he wants to try a 5 quad program, he can still continue after next season, right? 

 

I don't think Nathan with 6 or 7 quads, even if clean, deserves to win over a clean Yuzuru with 4 quads, because Nathan would have to disregard the performance even more than in his LP last season and it would be a travesty if that got him higher PCS than 82. It's not impossible though, but it would be kind of sad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against jumping many quads, my favorite men's skater is Boyang after all , but I'm a LOT for performing and transitions. It's really a crucial thing in figure skating. 

 

I understand, and I don't disagree, but we also have to understand that if Nathan does manage a clean-ish 7-quad layout (which I'm doubtful anyone would have the stamina to train regularly anyway, so I don't think this will realistically happen next season), his BV alone would be slightly less than H&L's entire TES, so as long as he had some positive GOEs, his TES might make up for the lower PCS, no matter who he goes against. And who knows, he might actually improve next season, we don't know yet. 

 

Yuzuru will do Autumn Classic International, much as he has done the past two seasons. 

[cucciolo888]

18 minutes ago, sublimeskating said:

omg all you guys discussing the merits of 7 quads and i'm just like        because i can't help but think about the impact forces on the skater's joints!  like, do these guys want to have properly working hips and knees and ankles by the time they're older?  unless they don't care and just opt for joint replacement surgeries...

 

i LOVE quads and i think they're AMAZING but tbh all this talk of "7 quads no problem yeah!" worries me a bit...

 

just cuz they're young doesn't mean their bodies are invincible...

 

can you imagine the strain of 7 quads all season long on their bodies?

 

i have to agree with brian on this one - skating is about the whole package and not just quads, quads, and more quads...

 

but worries aside, i think with the current trend we may see 7 (if not more) quads become the norm and then the skaters may end up shortening their careers which just makes me sad...

Well Nathan Chen has already tried 6 quads and failed, I don't think it is possible to put so many quads in program and skate clean, even Yuzuru, who is much more talented skater was able to perform clean LP only once

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

On 2017/7/6 at 午後9時31分, Neenah said:

I think Yuzu's goal of consistency is not just about winning. He had lived with the regret of his free at Sochi for years and I think the performance itself in Pyeongchang is as important to him as the gold medal.

 

I only want him to have two performances he is satisfied with even if he didn't win. I don't want him to beat himself up for not being able to perform at his best in the Olympics twice, or have people who criticise him conveniently forget everything he achieved and only remember that he was not clean at the games.

 

=) *thumbs up* I may very well be alone in this but I actually think the OGM isn't really worthy of an athlete like Hanyu, lol. I don't think it's enough, especially for a sport like FS. But since there isn't anything beyond it in terms of trophies marking athletic achievements, it'll have to do. Sides, it's only really worth something in the eyes of the public if the win comes accompanied with a performance of a lifetime, and that, again, is another thing that's really at the public's discretion. Using more recent examples, the acknowledgment of Lysacek's and Sotnikova's wins is lukewarm and paltry at best, outright rejected at worst, even though both, in their own ways, skated their lights out. Let's not forget the many OGMs who just faded into the annals of obscurity and whom people can no longer remember.

 

Hanyu's win isn't the most celebrated ever either, in terms of widespread international consensus. People don't reject it like they do with Lysacek's and Sotnikova's, but they don't feel satisfied with it either. The most dissatisfied one out of all of them being none other than Hanyu himself. Despite what everyone, Hanyu himself included, might think of it, judging by the grit it took to stay on top in Sochi and the results it has brought thereafter, however, I personally find it to be one of the wins with the most substance and perhaps even the greatest in the most subtle of manners. Even if he were to skate his ideal skates in PC and takes home the gold again, it will still only be second to this one in my books. It may not mean much coming from a nobody like me, but it's how I honestly feel about it. So yeah, whether or not he takes home the next gold, I think most of us here just want to see him satisfied (or at least, somewhat satisfied) with his performance, and whatever medal he takes home, that would be his gold.

 

...tho I have to admit, it's hard to imagine him not taking the gold if he were to manage to pull off a skate that he is at least close to being satisfied with--number of quads notwithstanding but we all know it's not gonna be less than four. But still, at the end of the day, whether or not the gold goes to him is not up to him. Whether or not he is able to skate the way he wants to, now that's something entirely within his switchboard. Hope he doesn't become too distracted by what isn't within his control enough to be able to remain focused on what is.

 

On 2017/7/6 at 午後9時42分, kaerb said:

At the moment, the quad arms race is taking advantage of a sort of loophole in scoring and it reminds me a little of when we were doing uni entrance exams. Some people memorised a bunch of pre-prepared essays and hoped they'd get a question that they prepared while others took the time to learn their source material in depth. In a short term, the first approach was risky but safer if the question was a predictable one; it's when something goes awry that a strong foundation will show its value. Yuzu and Brian seem to believe in the latter approach and I do too - it's better for longevity and is essentially idealistic 'quality' over a pragmatic 'strategic practicality' approach. 

 

So basically Made in China vs Made in Germany (in terms of mass produced items)?

 

A quick-fix vs a permanent one?

 

A short-cut through the freeway vs the scenic route filled with poetic and natural wonders? 

 

The hare vs the tortoise?

 

>.<

 

On 2017/7/6 at 午後9時35分, daisyjune said:

 

 

Wow...the rush of interviews is staggering. And these aren't even all of the ones he did while in Sochi. Not even gonna think about the ones he did after he came back from it. -.-;; (Tho I've seen a lot of them and it was really fun seeing them...)

[Danibellerika]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

 

Yeah, you're right, plus it would allow them to do two 3T combos. Which is basically what I'm proposing for Yuzu if he adds the 4Lz. And it keeps with their philosophy more, at least with Patrick's. I do think if no changes are made to SP, they might eventually consider risking 4 quads. Javi probably more than Patrick, though, because Patrick will also be adding a second quad to his SP and he'll already struggle with that. So I think a 2-quad SP and 3-quad layout might be more likely for him at this stage. As for Javi, it'll depend on what he thinks he'll need to secure a podium place at Olys. 

 

The season will tell, as it unfolds. 

The season could go one way and the games could be a completely different story.  Most wouldn't have guessed Sot would walk away with the gold despite the momentum of the season.  I mean, I watched Sarah Hughes win in 2002 so I'm just not sure what to expect. I only hope for the best for my horse in this race.  

 

28 minutes ago, sublimeskating said:

omg all you guys discussing the merits of 7 quads and i'm just like        because i can't help but think about the impact forces on the skater's joints!  like, do these guys want to have properly working hips and knees and ankles by the time they're older?  unless they don't care and just opt for joint replacement surgeries...

 

i LOVE quads and i think they're AMAZING but tbh all this talk of "7 quads no problem yeah!" worries me a bit...

 

just cuz they're young doesn't mean their bodies are invincible...

 

can you imagine the strain of 7 quads all season long on their bodies?

 

i have to agree with brian on this one - skating is about the whole package and not just quads, quads, and more quads...

 

but worries aside, i think with the current trend we may see 7 (if not more) quads become the norm and then the skaters may end up shortening their careers which just makes me sad...

 

3 minutes ago, cucciolo888 said:

Well Nathan Chen has already tried 6 quads and failed, I don't think it is possible to put so many quads in program and skate clean, even Yuzuru, who is much more talented skater was able to perform clean LP only once

He rotated 6 with faulty equipment and landed 5 twice already.  He only needs to hit those 6-7 once where it matters most. 

[cucciolo888]

3 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

The season could go one way and the games could be a completely different story.  Most wouldn't have guessed Sot would walk away with the gold despite the momentum of the season.  I mean, I watched Sarah Hughes win in 2002 so I'm just not sure what to expect. I only hope for the best for my horse in this race.  

 

 

He rotated 6 with faulty equipment and landed 5 twice already.  He only needs to hit those 6-7 once where it matters most. 

And yet he was on 5th place at worlds. I guess clean program with 4 quads is more valuable.

[Danibellerika]

7 minutes ago, cucciolo888 said:

And yet he was on 5th place at worlds. I guess clean program with 4 quads is more valuable.

And won the free at GPF with 4 and then won 4CC overall with 5 even with shaky jumps.  He's also Team USA which will go a long way with politiks.  

[xeyra]

24 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

The season could go one way and the games could be a completely different story.  Most wouldn't have guessed Sot would walk away with the gold despite the momentum of the season.  I mean, I watched Sarah Hughes win in 2002 so I'm just not sure what to expect. I only hope for the best for my horse in this race.  

 

He rotated 6 with faulty equipment and landed 5 twice already.  He only needs to hit those 6-7 once where it matters most. 

 

I meant that the number of quads being performed by everyone else, with any consistency, through the early season, might change what someone decides to do later on. Javi might compete with 3 quads initially but eventually realize that's not enough if he sees the shape of things early on. Much like Yuzu if he doesn't add the 4Lz. Shoma pretty much changed his layout for the second half of last season when he realized he needed more than 3 quads to be competitive. 

 

And yeah, agree with your assessment re: Nathan. All he needs is to land them once. But training his stamina for that kind of 7-quad layout is going to be tough. We also don't know how a proper 6-quad layout from him would have been (and scored) if he hadn't had those boot issues. And even with two falls and total negative GOE, he still got 110 TES out of a 112 BV. BV is, as said many times before, far better to focus on for some than PCS because PCS, unfortunately, have a ceiling and BV doesn't (technically, it does, but it's very high and unrealistic). 

[kiches]

About consistency, I know Yuzu mentioned he wanted to aim for consistency and I can clearly see that the choice to do Chopin and 4T3T are linked to that desire, but I wonder if he may risk a bit more in the free skate. 

 

Despite his uneven freeskate performances with Hope and Legacy up until Worlds, he basically won the free skate portion of all his competitions except for the GPF. This means he won the free skate 83% of the time despite the inconsistencies. For the SP he won it 50% of the time this season which resulted in a silver at 4CC and Skate Canada (judging aside). I think he may feel he has a little more room for error in he free skate early season at least, but wants to build an image of consistency with the SP as a result of last season. 

[MrPudding]

3 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

And won the free at GPF with 4 and then won 4CC overall with 5 even with shaky jumps.  He's also Team USA which will go a long way with politiks.  

 

And he's planning to r**** after Olympics to pursue medicine so he really got nothing to lose.. People are saying Yuzu should watch out for Shoma but I still think they should watch out for Nathan.. Plus the politics being played here..

[axelnojutsu]

Just now, MrPudding said:

 

And he's planning to r**** after Olympics to pursue medicine so he really got nothing to lose.. People are saying Yuzu should watch out for Shoma but I still think they should watch out for Nathan.. Plus the politics being played here..

I think Nathan and Shoma are his biggest threats, both for different reasons

[Danibellerika]

Just now, MrPudding said:

 

And he's planning to r**** after Olympics to pursue medicine so he really got nothing to lose.. People are saying Yuzu should watch out for Shoma but I still think they should watch out for Nathan.. Plus the politics being played here..

Exactly. Longevity is not in Nate's plans anyway.  And that's completely fine.  It's his life and career after all.  And I agree with you, I can see Nate as a bigger threat than Shoma, but I would not discount either one of them.  Will just come down to the scoring. 

[xeyra]

4 minutes ago, kiches said:

About consistency, I know Yuzu mentioned he wanted to aim for consistency and I can clearly see that the choice to do Chopin and 4T3T are linked to that desire, but I wonder if he may risk a bit more in the free skate. 

 

Despite his uneven freeskate performances with Hope and Legacy up until Worlds, he basically won the free skate portion of all his competitions except for the GPF. This means he won the free skate 83% of the time despite the inconsistencies. For the SP he won it 50% of the time this season which resulted in a silver at 4CC and Skate Canada (judging aside). I think he may feel he has a little more room for error in he free skate early season at least, but wants to build an image of consistency with the SP as a result of last season. 

 

Yeah, Chopin 3.0 is his attempt to not get left behind in the SP to the point he has to make up a lot of points in the FS, especially when he has others breathing down his neck with higher BVs to begin with. The times he had issues with his 4Lo but landed his combo in the SP he had 100+ scores, but not the other way around; failing the combo is very costly but the 4T3T at FaOI was pretty consistent, aside from a couple of shows out of 9, so I'm hopeful for that, as long as nerves don't interfere too much. 

 

Chopin 3.0 is also why I am hopeful for 4Lz. More time to focus on improving a new jump, which he might as well need. His FS might not be as consistent early on but at least he'll have a 4Lz to impress.