46 minutes ago, micaelis said:

Yuzu's ideal skates (eventually) include all the different quads divided between the two programs and a quad/quad combination (has anybody done one yet?).  It also gets maximum GOEs on every element and PCS scores above 49.95 and 99.95 (which mean a ton of the judges have given him 10s).  His ideal skate would also be followed by a Poohvalanche that takes over fifteen minutes to clear the ice (they really should put blades on the Zambonis).  Also the ideal skate should be at a GPF or WC (preferably both) and should have victory margins of over 20 points for the short and 50 points for the long.  And these should be in a season where he wins everything he's entered.  Have skates like that and a season like that and even the skeptics will have to call him the GOAT.  Will this ever happen?  Probably not, but I can dream, can't I?

? I don't think he's ever mentioned a 4-4 combination (iirc the risk/reward re: points isn't worth it) or specifically that he wanted to master all 5 quads (though that may change if he does land the 4A), or ever outlined what his ideal skate involves in such material or specific terms lol, it's always been abstract ideals of wanting to win 'decisively' over everyone else delivering clean programs or to touch the audience in some way. This would maybe be closer to what I wish would happen after his ideal skate but that's just my opinion 

9 時間前, Syless Jinxさんが言いました:

Yuzu always seemed to have issues with his flip edge, so trying a quad version of it might just magnify the problem.  I don’t think the quads have a difficulty based on the jump type tbh.  Many people learned the Quad sal before the toe.  Same for other like Nathan and Boyang who learned the lutz before the loop, and Shoma who can do the flip, loop and toe but not the sal.  I’m sure he can do a flip, but it’s his least favorite jump so why would he?

 

I remember Yuzuru and Nanami sensei were happy as he did not get the edge call for his 3F in the competition at last, it may be a junior competition, but I do not remember exactly which one it was. 

And after Sochi, he added up his new quad challenges in the interview, but he exempted Flip jump, again I don't remember exactly, but he said "フリップは、まあいいや" or something like that, meaning "Flip, just leave it." or "just forget about it"

 

I just thought he regards flip is the last jump to care. 

 

Just IMO, it seems that skaters who like Lutz tend to be not good at Flip. Vice Versa. 

Spoiler

what they retweeted 

i see you. 

gif version makes it 1000x more adorable

3 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

gif version makes it 1000x more adorable

heaven for me, hell for others (the coaches of hypotetical twin Yuzus)

5 hours ago, micaelis said:

and a quad/quad combination (has anybody done one yet?)

 

Quad-quad combos don't make much sense within the current system. Having a quad-quad combo doesn't mean you can include more quads, the triple that is being replaced in the combo will still have to be accomodated in the program as a standalone triple somewhere. So the BV of the layout isn't raised by much, just the BV difference between a 3T and a 3Lz of 1.7 points at most. Additionally Yuzu would also have one more jumping pass where the GOE is curved by 0.7. The GOE of jumping passes that include a quad or a 3A are curved by 1.0, so the jumping passes which include a quad or 3A have to be maximized.

 

So by including a quad-quad combo he could only gain up to 1.7 points but also loose up to 0.9 points in GOE (in case he gets +3 GOE on that standalone triple). Considering how draining and difficult a quad-quad combo would be and the risk that would come with it that's simply not worth it. It would make more sense to work on a quint or something LOL

 

tl;dr: The risk is super high and the reward is minimal

 

eta: I realized a double could be replaced with a quad in a combo lol so the BV could be raised by 4.7 (2T -> 3Lz) but it still would make more sense to just learn another jump

1 hour ago, SuzyQ said:

 

I remember Yuzuru and Nanami sensei were happy as he did not get the edge call for his 3F in the competition at last, it may be a junior competition, but I do not remember exactly which one it was. 

And after Sochi, he added up his new quad challenges in the interview, but he exempted Flip jump, again I don't remember exactly, but he said "フリップは、まあいいや" or something like that, meaning "Flip, just leave it." or "just forget about it"

 

I just thought he regards flip is the last jump to care. 

 

Just IMO, it seems that skaters who like Lutz tend to be not good at Flip. Vice Versa. 

Yes. If you’re good at Flip, your Lutz might be not good. If you’re good at Lutz, your flip might be weaker. Even skaters have both Flip and Lutz aren’t really excellent at both. For example Liza Tuktamysheva, her Lutz is super and even though her Flip isn’t bad, it’s still weaker than her Lutz. Nathan is actually better at Flip than the Lutz. Alina Zagitova repeats both the Flip and Lutz, but even though her Lutz is not wrong, it’s not a really super Lutz either. 

Also, if you look at the BV, it’s reasonable for Yuzuru to train the 4A, 4lz and 4Lo. As the 4A and 4Lz have significant higher BV than 4F and 4Lo as these 2 have kinda same BV. If you can do the hardest jump which no one ever does, why not go for it?

5 hours ago, Floria said:

Yes, this combo probably wasn't part of the strategy but iirc this was the first practice in SP starting order so all of his main rivals were there to watch.

 

I wonder if seeing Yuzu practice played any part in Nathan's ill-advised SP layout change. Basically, did Yuzu freak Nathan out into damning himself?

 

1 hour ago, robin said:

 

Quad-quad combos don't make much sense within the current system. Having a quad-quad combo doesn't mean you can include more quads, the triple that is being replaced in the combo will still have to be accomodated in the program as a standalone triple somewhere. So the BV of the layout isn't raised by much, just the BV difference between a 3T and a 3Lz of 1.7 points at most. Additionally Yuzu would also have one more jumping pass where the GOE is curved by 0.7. The GOE of jumping passes that include a quad or a 3A are curved by 1.0, so the jumping passes which include a quad or 3A have to be maximized.

 

So by including a quad-quad combo he could only gain up to 1.7 points but also loose up to 0.9 points in GOE (in case he gets +3 GOE on that standalone triple). Considering how draining and difficult a quad-quad combo would be and the risk that would come with it that's simply not worth it. It would make more sense to work on a quint or something LOL

 

tl;dr: The risk is super high and the reward is minimal

 

eta: I realized a double could be replaced with a quad in a combo lol so the BV could be raised by 4.7 (2T -> 3Lz) but it still would make more sense to just learn another jump

 

But Quad-Quad could make a major difference in SP. The rules would allow for 4T-4T. Isn't it why it's so important for ladies to have a triple-triple?

26 minutes ago, Moria Polonius said:

But Quad-Quad could make a major difference in SP. The rules would allow for 4T-4T. Isn't it why it's so important for ladies to have a triple-triple?

 

Afaik they're not allowed in SPs. Only 4-2 or 4-3

2 hours ago, MrPudding said:

  Reveal hidden contents

what they retweeted 

i see you. 

 

That love call... 

6 minutes ago, robin said:

 

Afaik they're not allowed in SPs. Only 4-2 or 4-3

 

Oh, there's a limitation as to the second jump in the combo? I wasn't aware of that.

 

But maybe for the quadsters with a full or nearly full set of quads(minus 4A ofcourse) a -4T combo would still be worth it, especially when one jumping pass gets cut. A -4T could replace a 2T and release one slot for a triple. Yuzu already had to give up 3Lo for the sake of the quads.

 

Lemme see, let's go ambitiously: 4Lz, 3Lo, 4S-4T, 4T, 3A-3T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3F

 

The only other way to eliminate the double jumps is to learn a -3Lo combo. Which for some reason no man is doing.

Just now, Moria Polonius said:

 

The only other way to eliminate the double jumps is to learn a -3Lo combo. Which for some reason no man is doing.

3Lo combos seem to be associated with hip issues, and they almost always seem underrotated. Except Alina, who can throw down 3Los like Evgenia can throw down 3Ts.

1 minute ago, yuzuangel said:

3Lo combos seem to be associated with hip issues, and they almost always seem underrotated. Except Alina, who can throw down 3Los like Evgenia can throw down 3Ts.

 

I just checked, and Adam Rippon did a -3lo combo. Lol, if only he needed it for the quads!

 

But frankly, hips or no hips, I'm baffled why guys aren't doing it when some girls are. I don't think the logic of "it can damage your hips" would suddenly  convince them when they're willing to go through astonishing lengths in order to raise their BV. 

 

But anyway, in the absence of a -3Lo, ALL top guys do a -2T combo. So perhaps a quad-quad doesn't necessarily help them, but a -4T combo, whether attached to a quad or to an axel, would certainly be an advantage. It wouldn't replace a triple, it'd replace a double.

35 minutes ago, Moria Polonius said:

 

Oh, there's a limitation as to the second jump in the combo? I wasn't aware of that.

 

But maybe for the quadsters with a full or nearly full set of quads(minus 4A ofcourse) a -4T combo would still be worth it, especially when one jumping pass gets cut. A -4T could replace a 2T and release one slot for a triple. Yuzu already had to give up 3Lo for the sake of the quads.

 

Lemme see, let's go ambitiously: 4Lz, 3Lo, 4S-4T, 4T, 3A-3T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3F

 

The only other way to eliminate the double jumps is to learn a -3Lo combo. Which for some reason no man is doing.

 

Yeah I didn’t think abt replacing a double with quad at first but added that in my eta

 

The difference in BV would be a little more significant but it’s possible to eliminate doubles completely by increasing the diversity of quads but not the quantity. I’m not sure how layouts are gonna work under the new system but under the current one Yuzu could have eliminated a double this season by adding the 4Lz to a 4 quad program by not repeating any quads and repeating 3Ts instead:

4Lz, 4Lo, 3F // 4S3T 4T 3ALo3S 3A3T 3Lz

 

I’d take a wild guess that a quad -quad combo in a program stacked with all kind of quads minus 4A would be extremely exhausting, especially with the 30 sec cut and more dense programs

 

eta: fixed some typos lol

Hm let’s say a jumping pass is removed in a straightforward fashion next season it would make all the less sense to do quad-quad combos to eliminate doubles. I’m just assuming Yuzu’s jump repertoire that was planned for this season for the sake of argument, a layout like his would eliminate doubles with 5 quads: 4Lo 4Lz 3F // 4T 4S3T 4TLo3S 3A3T 

 

4T and 3T are repeated