General Yuzuru Chat

[Xen]

11 minutes ago, dancingnoodles said:

I see. Thanks for the clarification! I was really confused since Button criticized ISU's failure to apply rules correctly and the intention to change everything, but he also seemed to dislike the idea of having jumps disrupting the flow of the programs (what's with the book analogy? ) 

Hmm, my reading of it is more the second part: “I don’t like the rules that exist now. In my book, what is the matter with having something that is technically difficult and also creative?" He's always been pretty supportive of Yuzuru, and if anything, he might be more inclined to say that Yuzuru's artistry is constrained by the technical points he has to meet to fend off the quadsters. Because Yuzuru most certainly does not have the largest repeatoire of quads,  nor the highest count of quads in his program. It is more or less encompassed in his first sentence about Hanyu- "“I think it was marvelous for the rules that exist now.”

 

As for Button's remarks, you should see this video. It's quite a lengthy rant- and he would want skaters to be actually in control of ISU. Anyone want to send the ISU president this video, as Button pretty much complains about speed skaters running the ISU? So Yuzu...ever considered it?

 

Just now, xeyra said:

 

He's very cranky about men's skating today. The only one he seems to like is Javi, maybe because he embodies that old school skating more than others.

 

Hmm, he was pretty effusive about Hanyu in Sochi. I think he looks on at Yuzuru's addition of quads as a slight pity, but a concession that Hanyu had to make.

[lilsailor]

I can't tell whether he likes or doesn't like yuzuru?😂😂

[Nerdincool]

"When questioned about Hanyu’s total package as a skater, Button looked at the broader picture and his belief that the technical elements have overtaken creativity and robbed the sport of its essence in the process." 

“The rules do not favor creative skating. One of the few skaters that achieves that is Javier Fernandez." 

“But again, it will come down to the number of bloody quadruple jumps.”

What did Button think of Hanyu’s epic free skate at the worlds in Helsinki last April?

“I think it was marvelous for the rules that exist now,” Button said. “I don’t like the rules that exist now. In my book, what is the matter with having something that is technically difficult and also creative?

"The odd one out is the Spaniard Javier Fernandez, who is one of the few to be both quad-oriented, original and artistic."

Sooo I'm guessing he's no longer a fan of Yuzu (only Javi)? He seemed to really like PW back at Sochi but the things he says here are ehhhh...

[xeyra]

7 minutes ago, Xen said:

Hmm, my reading of it is more the second part: “I don’t like the rules that exist now. In my book, what is the matter with having something that is technically difficult and also creative?" He's always been pretty supportive of Yuzuru, and if anything, he might be more inclined to say that Yuzuru's artistry is constrained by the technical points he has to meet to fend off the quadsters. Because Yuzuru most certainly does not have the largest repeatoire of quads,  nor the highest count of quads in his program. It is more or less encompassed in his first sentence about Hanyu- "“I think it was marvelous for the rules that exist now.”

 

I think you're reading this a bit too positively. My take on this was that he doesn't like men's skating today, including Yuzu's. Javi is an exception and for Button basically the only top guy who can marry artistry and the technical. He's the only one to whom Button pays specific compliments, while he circumvents talking about Yuzu's artistry on his H&L program by going with 'it's good for the rules as they exist today'.

[Xen]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

I think you're reading this a bit too positively. My take on this was that he doesn't like men's skating today, including Yuzu's. Javi is an exception and for Button basically the only top guy who can marry artistry and the technical. He's the only one to whom Button pays specific compliments, while he circumvents talking about Yuzu's artistry on his H&L program by going with 'it's good for the rules as they exist today'. 

I thought it was more that H&L is a symptom of the times and rules than anything.  But if we go by his logic, then wouldn't the ultimate old school skater be Pchiddy?

[Nerdincool]

I still respect the guy and his opinions (he is still a living legend after all) but definitely cannot agree with him if he's saying what I think he's saying.

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

I thought it was more that H&L is a symptom of the times and rules than anything.  But if we go by his logic, then wouldn't the ultimate old school skater be Pchiddy?

 

I don't know, Javi and Patrick may embody the old school skating more but Javi is more of a character skater and Patrick is more abstract? They are different skaters still with different individual styles. Edit to add: And Button seems to favor Javi's style more. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nerdincool said:

I still respect the guy and his opinions (he is still a living legend after all) but definitely cannot agree with him if he's saying what I think he's saying.

 

He's saying what you think he's saying. Now I understand a twitter rant I came across before reading this. 

[matchanodoame]

I don't think there's any need to be so worked up over Button's comment. He's been in the FS world for a long, long time and he has witnessed FS changed drastically from his era to be what it is now and he didn't see the FS as he did and love before so of course he's bitter about it. 

 

In my opinion he still values Yuzuru as a great and capable skater. Remember his message to Yuzuru before? And his comment on Yuzu at Sochi should still stand. The problem is, he feels such a shame that Yuzuru has to abide by ISU rules and become what he is now... focusing on adding quads (although we all know this doesn't affect his artistry whatsoever) 

 

 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I don't know, Javi and Patrick may embody the old school skating more but Javi is more of a character skater and Patrick is more abstract? They are different skaters still with different individual styles. 

Well to most casual veiwers, I think Javi's programs are probably more easy to get invested into. I also don't think he's exactly dismissive of Yuzuru's skating-if anything his description of what's wrong with men's skating is probably more dismissive of Nathan, Boyang and even Shoma (and the more quad oriented junior men's). It seems his beef, if it does exist, with Yuzuru is that gradually Yuzuru's programs have bent in to the rules as he's chasing after quads with more ferver than Javi.

 

Well I read Button's statement as he agrees that Yuzuru's program, was probably the best that could be done for what the rules allows for-quad fest plus sufficient creativity/artistry to not be too dry and boring (aka the quad fests of other skaters).

[freeyafanfan]

6 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I think you're reading this a bit too positively. My take on this was that he doesn't like men's skating today, including Yuzu's. Javi is an exception and for Button basically the only top guy who can marry artistry and the technical. He's the only one to whom Button pays specific compliments, while he circumvents talking about Yuzu's artistry on his H&L program by going with 'it's good for the rules as they exist today'. Yuzu is included in the skaters who are favored by the rules today, the rules he doesn't like.

I actually got this too from the way he spoke, but well he can have his opinions and we can have ours I'm still crackin over all the rants he gave to the ISU lol

 

and Yuzu can always make him change his mind with his skate somewhere this season  that is if he even watched competitions anymore, considering his remarks that he doesn't really watch cause he doesn't like it these days

[Forcefield]

Reading the article on Button, I get where he's coming from even though I don't agree with everything. I'm okay with COP, he isn't, and we both agree it's the application of the rules that's the issue. And maybe it's the era. I already know that when ISU changes the scoring yet again I will walk into Button territory of a disengagement and bitterness with the sport.

 

I don't care if he actually likes Hanyu anymore or not, but i appreciate that he's at least objective.

 

This is mere speculation because I don't know Hanyu's plans, but I think him wanting to do something for the skaters but that it doesn't actually translates to him coaching skaters is actually a reluctance to have to deal with the politics of skating once he retires. Or maybe it's the complete opposite of that.

[Nerdincool]

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

I thought it was more that H&L is a symptom of the times and rules than anything.  But if we go by his logic, then wouldn't the ultimate old school skater be Pchiddy?

Once again, zero mention of Patrick. I feel bad for him. I mean I've only seen like three of Patrick's programs but still agree that his skating skills are superb and he should not be as unappreciated as he is today (Seriously he mentioned Shoma, but not Patrick?). And this is coming from a 100% Yuzu fan (y'know cause apparently Yuzu fans and Patrick fans are mortal enemies and rarely agree on anything).

[Xen]

Just now, Forcefield said:

Reading the article on Button, I get where he's coming from even though I don't agree with everything. I'm okay with COP, he isn't, and we both agree it's the application of the rules that's the issue. And maybe it's the era. I already know that when ISU changes the scoring yet again I will walk into Button territory of a disengagement and bitterness with the sport.

 

I don't care if he actually likes Hanyu anymore or not, but i appreciate that he's at least objective.

 

This is mere speculation because I don't know Hanyu's plans, but I think him wanting to do something for the skaters but that it doesn't actually translates to him coaching skaters is actually a reluctance to have to deal with the politics of skating once he retires. Or maybe it's the complete opposite of that.

Button's rant at the ISU pretty much was "The only time ISU got its act together was when a figure skater was in control, and since then no figure skater has been in control."

[Danibellerika]

6 minutes ago, Nerdincool said:

Once again, zero mention of Patrick. I feel bad for him. I mean I've only seen like three of Patrick's programs but still agree that his skating skills are superb and he should not be as unappreciated as he is today (Seriously he mentioned Shoma, but not Patrick?). And this is coming from a 100% Yuzu fan (y'know cause apparently Yuzu fans and Patrick fans are mortal enemies and rarely agree on anything).

 

I was thinking the same.  Chan technically has the same content planned as Javi now and if both do the same content I think Chan should be ahead.  Shoma mention makes sense as he is a reigning world silver medalist and currently has the highest total score this season. We don't know who will bring what on those big two days. That much is for certain. I just hope Yuzu does.  

 

Button also seems to not care for the team event one bit. 

[Sombreuil]

I don't know how much, if any, athlete involvement there is in ISU?  I know in other sports athletes go on to be judges and officials and to the top but does this happen in FS? The only thing I remember seeing recently was a Russian (?) pairs/dance(?) skater who had declined to join a judging course because of disillusionment with the system but as must be obvious my recollection is extremely hazy.

 

if there isn't much/ any then recruiting a few recently retired skaters might bring a little common sense into the thinking process?

 

Who is FS for? The fans and the athletes after all, and the athletes give the most to it