General Yuzuru Chat

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, Elaine said:

Yahh I dont think Yuzu would ever drop off 3F. It seems important for him to include all six jumps in the FP ; but if he does I will be glad just because of the higher BV and potentially higher GOE

Nah I think it's good he keeps the flip, in case he triples his quad lutz -- from ACI we see how he's not so good at YOLOing, or is he? 

[SSS]

3 hours ago, Floria said:

 

ETA And still we will probably have a chance to see LGC and  Notte Stellata EXs this season.

 

The question is which one is for Olympics..Hard to decide.haha

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

22 分ぐらい, yuzuangelさんが言いました:

Nah I think it's good he keeps the flip, in case he triples his quad lutz -- from ACI we see how he's not so good at YOLOing, or is he? 

 

I think there are a few frames of mind one can have to skate clean, and another few they can have to YOLO successfully (they are, ofc, mutually exclusive). He's managed to hit quite a few of them now, with the YOLO mental settings a more recent acquisition (plus another new mental setting for skating a program clean), but not all the time. His ACI FS was an example of him probably knowing that both his mental and physical settings that day would not allow for a clean skate so he was struggling to adjust them to YOLO instead but they kept going haywire so...

 

Long story short, on that day, he simply wasn't in any frame of mind to do much of anything but get through the competition somehow and wait for the day to end. >_<

[Elaine]

22 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Nah I think it's good he keeps the flip, in case he triples his quad lutz -- from ACI we see how he's not so good at YOLOing, or is he? 

 

I think it really depends on his physical and mental status when it comes to YOLO time; but let's hope he does not have to YOLO anymore this season. Everything goes well as planned, love and peace

[fireovertheice]

Quote

I'm listening to Max Ambesi's podcast too. Tbh is really so much stuff, I don't have the strenght to make a translation because it gets really detailed about things I don't know that much  but the amount of  detail is also what makes you really understand what is the difference between who makes generic talks and who really knows the sport and the athletes too.

 

I have just finished to listen Max podcast too, and I absolutely agree with @LadyLou on the point above. I think he is one of the most informed journalist i have heard in this field. And the amounts of things he knows about all the skaters, also all the junior, is unbelievable.

 

Other interesting things he said, following me, are:

1) It seems that Yuzuru is training his SP in two versions, one with the 4loop and another with the 4lutz as first jump. We will see in the next competitions

 

2) He thinks that Yuzuru will land (not this year) the 4axel, repeating that for now the rate success of this jump seems to be around 30%.

 

3) He stressed a lot the problem of the quality of the jumps and transitions in men but also in ladies fields

 

4) All the last part where he discusses the problems of the score and the judging: the current situation and the supposed changes after this OGM cycle.

One point he underlines, and I agree with him, is that the lowering the points of jumps will change not so much. It will be better to review the way GOE are given and, more, how PCS are given.

Also, an aspect that he can't understand - and me neither - why we look at protocols where the PCS seem to follow TES and not to be valued for themselves and where all the components have the same average marks: so, for example, if SS are in the range of the 8-9's, also all the other components are almost the same, while you could have someone with brilliant skating skills, scoring in the 8-9's in that part, but with a scarce interpretation or lame coreography, that should get a lower score (like in 6-7's).

[xeyra]

5 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

I have just finished to listen Max podcast too, and I absolutely agree with @LadyLou on the point above. I think he is one of the most informed journalist i have heard in this field. And the amounts of things he knows about all the skaters, also all the junior, is unbelievable.

 

Other interesting things he said, following me, are:

1) It seems that Yuzuru is training his SP in two versions, one with the 4loop and another with the 4lutz as first jump. We will see in the next competitions

 

2) He thinks that Yuzuru will land (not this year) the 4axel, repeating that for now the rate success of this jump seems to be around 30%.

 

 

1) SE-4Lz-SE? 

2) 30%. Does this count pops from Mr. Popstar?

[SSS]

8 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

1) It seems that Yuzuru is training his SP in two versions, one with the 4loop and another with the 4lutz as first jump. We will see in the next competitions

 

2) He thinks that Yuzuru will land (not this year) the 4axel, repeating that for now the rate success of this jump seems to be around 30%.

 

[fireovertheice]

24 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

1) SE-4Lz-SE? 

2) 30% is about 1 out of 3 attempts?

 

Ambesi didn't say anything about the transitions in and out of this jump. Just that he is training with the two versions of the program, with this difference in the first jump. I image possibly with different transitions. Before he was saying that Yuzuru could win OG also with a "simplified" SP program, i.e. with the 4S, as we have seen in ACI, but he would not do it, but rather go for 4Loop or 4Lutz because we know... he is Yuzuru  Hanyu :). He is an athlete who wants to push the sport and himself to the limit.

 

Also about the 4A he said only that thing about the 30% rate of success. He said also in an other occasion before, if I remember correctly.

 

 

 

[Floria]

Hace 6 horas, xeyra said:

 

1) SE-4Lz-SE? 

2) 30%. Does this count pops from Mr. Popstar?

4Lz in SP? 

[xeyra]

14 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

4) All the last part where he discusses the problems of the score and the judging: the current situation and the supposed changes after this OGM cycle.

One point he underlines, and I agree with him, is that the lowering the points of jumps will change not so much. It will be better to review the way GOE are given and, more, how PCS are given.

Also, an aspect that he can't understand - and me neither - why we look at protocols where the PCS seem to follow TES and not to be valued for themselves and where all the components have the same average marks: so, for example, if SS are in the range of the 8-9's, also all the other components are almost the same, while you could have someone with brilliant skating skills, scoring in the 8-9's in that part, but with a scarce interpretation or lame coreography, that should get a lower score (like in 6-7's).

 

I recently came across an interesting 2015 interview with Alexander Lakernik, from the ISU Council, concerning judging and difficulty in skating. This was during Boyang's first appearances but prior to NHK 2015. It's an interesting read, even though I'm only quoting a small part of it.

 

https://visaliakid.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/you-cant-limit-the-difficulty-in-figure-skating/

 

Quote

There are some tendencies that alarm me. What do I mean? A difficult element brings a lot of points. But for some reason some judges began to rate the execution of the ultra-C elements more softly than easier elements. So things are forgiven about the quad jump that aren’t forgiven about the triple. Moreover, thanks to adding ultra-C elements to a program the second mark starts to rise. I don’t think it’s the right direction. If an element is more difficult, it, of course, will cost more, but the execution of it must be judged by the same scale as the execution of the triple jump. And it’s a topic for discussion. The same thing with the component score, that hardly depends on whether a triple jump was done or a quadruple. 

 

They are aware of the issues in judging. But they apparently can't control their member federations judges, even without anonymous judging anymore, because there's no real consequences. Or probably proper training. Not to mention it being hard to control judging bias. 

[xeyra]

7 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

Ambesi did't say the transition in and out of this jump. Just that he is training with the two version of the program with this differnce in the first jump. I image possibly with different transitions.

 

Also about the 4A he said only that thing about the 30% rate of success. He said also in an other occasion before, if I remember correctly.

 

 

Yeah, I corrected my post because I actually fail at math and 1 out 3 is not 30% anyway. 

[fireovertheice]

3 minutes ago, Floria said:

4Lz in SP? 

 

This is what Ambesi said he is training. But we don't know it for sure (also if the man seems to be always very informed about yuzu). And the fact that he is training it, doesn't mean necessarily he will decide to do it in also competition: probably it will depend by the success of the two versions and also by what it will happen during the season.

[xeyra]

Just now, fireovertheice said:

 

This is what Ambesi said he is training. But we don't know it for sure (also if the man seems to be always very informed about yuzu). And the fact that he is training it, doesn't mean necessarily he will decide to do it in also competition: probably it will depend by the success of the two versions and also by what it will happen during the season.

 

I'd like to see that. With the 4S at ACI, he might end the season with 3 different solo jumps in the SP!

 

But I think the 4Lo may be taking a rest since he's currently confined to 1 a day for now. 

[yuzuangel]

16 minutes ago, xeyra said:

But they apparently can't control their member federations judges, even without anonymous judging anymore, because there's no real consequences. Or probably proper training. Not to mention it being hard to control judging bias. 

Well, that's alarming. This should be the #1 thing on the agenda to fix, then -_- 

[ymnk]

18 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

1) It seems that Yuzuru is training his SP in two versions, one with the 4loop and another with the 4lutz as first jump. We will see in the next competitions

 

 

18 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

2) He thinks that Yuzuru will land (not this year) the 4axel, repeating that for now the rate success of this jump seems to be around 30%.

 

 

18 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

3) He stressed a lot the problem of the quality of the jumps and transitions in men but also in ladies fields

 

4) All the last part where he discusses the problems of the score and the judging: the current situation and the supposed changes after this OGM cycle.

One point he underlines, and I agree with him, is that the lowering the points of jumps will change not so much. It will be better to review the way GOE are given and, more, how PCS are given.

Also, an aspect that he can't understand - and me neither - why we look at protocols where the PCS seem to follow TES and not to be valued for themselves and where all the components have the same average marks: so, for example, if SS are in the range of the 8-9's, also all the other components are almost the same, while you could have someone with brilliant skating skills, scoring in the 8-9's in that part, but with a scarce interpretation or lame coreography, that should get a lower score (like in 6-7's).

He really does not beat around any bushes, does he? I feel like learning italian now.