rockstaryuzu

I would give my eyeteeth to have the strength and flexibility to do a hydroblade...I can barely even get into the position on land

So....who here is excited by what Yuzu said about how he wants to reach even greater heights in skating 'after 4A'? In other words, maybe he's not planning to r***** any time soon.

I know this is OT, but that's an extremely fascinating topic in itself. I agree with loud(ish) voicing as long as it is geared towards gaining a positive result and isn't simply about tearing someone down in order to vent one's ire. The end goal should be to make things better for everyone, not to make one individual feel like a heel.

Well said! I'd add to that, that the more loudly someone points out things that are against this or that gender stereotype, the more they're actually reinforcing that stereotype. So may be it's better to just let people have their unique gender expression without making any comment of any kind.

An extremely good point, and one I have long thought to be true in regards to Yuzu. Cultural differences matter in this aspect.

And that's always going to hold true for any skater who makes the mistake of thinking that a program doesn't have to be a total package of artistry and technique together.

I think we are all agreed on the fact that the underlying, general, idea here - the erroneous belief that figure skating somehow needs to be rescued from the prejudices of a judgmental society by means of making it more 'athletic' and 'manly' through the considered neglect of elements such as complex, technically challenging step sequences, beautiful edges, etc and the addition of modern vocal music, to the detriment of the performance as a whole, is repugnant and comes from a place of misogyny and homophobia. On the other hand, what I see is that there's a mix of opinions on Nathan's words on the matter, and whether they were intentional or not. No one actually agrees with what he said; some want to pillory him, while others aren't so sure it's warranted. Either way, his words and actions are dubious, but I personally don't see what's to be gained from giving him the gears on social media. If the goal is to enlighten him and get him to evolve and change his mind, then harsh attacks aren't going to accomplish that. Reasoned debate might work though. Asking him if he really believes what he said in that interview, finding out why he believes it, and then using that to get him to reconsider his point of view would bring about more lasting change, IMO. I know this is hard to do, especially when it's a subject that hits emotionally close to home for people, but in the end its the best way to change hearts and minds. My 2c, fwiw.

Boy, AoP seem to be going downhill just as fast as they rose up this time last summer.

Same here, ACI has it's white-haired contingent too. But they are already fans, so not a new audience. ISU might want keep them but isn't going to attract new fans among that group no matter what they do.

I don't know if this holds true for Japan, but amongst Canadian Olympians, being the opening-cereminy flag bearer is considered bad luck - a lot of the opening flag-bearers for Team Canada have gone on to have a crappy Olympics.

??? Still doesn't make sense. Look at the turn out (or lack thereof) for the US version of Stars on Ice, and they tour the entire country. I think conservative bible-belt types, both men and women, watch football.

Well, if his agent wrote the apology as everyone seems to be assuming (and it is an assumption; we do not have proof that Nathan did not write it, no matter what way it sounds), they probably thought they had to reference the source material...

Donovan is definitely more mature than NC, in wisdom if not years. Also, clearly much less insecure.

That's actually an interesting point, because to my knowledge this debate just doesn't arise in countries where figure skating is a bigger draw.

First off - Donovan lets the audience see how much he enjoys the sport and how ardently he desires to excel at it. No matter what the music is, or the performance. It's that animating spirit of his enjoyment and his wish to win that makes his skating engaging. Even when he's doing something based on very traditional and masculine Mexican music and dance, it comes across as a natural expression of his own self, not 'look how macho I am'. TL, DR: just be your real self on the ice, it works out better.

I see what you did there...

Surprised there's that many views, tbh

??

Bit rough around the edges. I think he needs to pay more attention to some of the basics like leg and arm extension and so on. He has great lines in the Ina Bauer but some of his positions in spins and spirals and stuff look really unfinished. Also, looks like he bulked up since last year and that it's causing him some challenges on the ice. Still though, lots of promise there.

Agree. When you think about it, they're saying that a skater who looks beautiful and elegant as he does a triple axel, isn't athletic. Let that sink in. That's like saying a a mountain goat isn't athletic because it has a cute shaggy coat.

Again? That's us Fanyus all right...very plot...much evil.... *eye roll* Anyway, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he's sincere in wanting to apologize. But please, let's not repeat this, N*than...learn the lesson, choose your words more carefully in future. And try to evolve a bit.

I was a figure skating fan during that era too, I remember all that. Strangely, despite all his protestations about masculinity etc, for some reason, at the time EL was the one who gave me the impression that he, well, wasn't straight...ironic, no? Whereas J*hnny just seemed like a guy who made strong artistic choices and had a point of view...I was not expecting him to come out and was surprised when he did. All that's neither here nor there except to say that sometimes figure skating audiences aren't concerned with or focusing on this issue, we just want to see interesting skating. So the conversation that seems to be going on, internal to the sport, in regards to that issue, maybe misses the point. Instead of panicking about trying to attract an audience through over-emphasized masculinity, maybe the skating world should take some time to understand the audience they already have and why they watch, and build on that information.

Oh, right. If I recall there was some apology issued over that. I mean, there's no glossing over the fact that the past history between Korea and Japan is extremely fraught, to say the least. On the other hand, BTS has a massive Japanese fandom and easily sells out all the biggest stadiums every time they tour there, so it's not like they're complete anathema to the Japanese. People need to leave Yuzu to make up his own mind about those things and stop trying to drag him in the direction of whatever axe they themselves have to grind. Re Naomi Osaka: my understanding is that she's quite proud of her Japanese heritage even if she can't speak Japanese well. And she chose to represent Japan as an athlete, when she could have chosen the US instead. I think that demonstrates quite a bit of commitment to Japan on her part, especially knowing the way she might be regarded in Japanese society due to her appearance. I think she very well exemplifies the Olympic spirit. But given how controversial these Games have been, I'm very satisfied that Yuzu is well out of it.

I'm not quite sure that's what Nathan was trying to do, but even if it was, that's problematic. The fact that this scenario is regrettably common and many male figure skaters have been hit with it from non-FS interviewers over the years is a problem too. Yes, Nathan could have had the presence of mind to answer in a less unfortunate way, and him not doing so shows that he still has some work to do to grasp the concept. I don't think he needs to be dragged backwards through the mud of Twitter commentary to teach him that lesson, but what do I know? What I don't like is that this kind of attack on the sexuality of all figure skaters is still going on, just because they happen to be figure skaters. The men get it coming and going: if they're not gay, they get backed into a corner with all the 'oh, you're a figure skater, you MUST be gay' comments and end up feeling like they have to prove something*. If they're gay, they get attacked for being gay and suffer harm, more often than not. The constant, continual message, over and over, is that figure skating is not a sport acceptable for men of any sexual identity to do, and that's just sad. In fact it's beyond sad. When are we going to free our minds from this 💩? What's so threatening and wrong about men skating, anyway? * Yes you could argue that no one should feel threatened or insulted by being called gay and you'd be right; however the current reality is what it is. One day it will change.

He's definitely speaking in early 21st century California teenager, that's for sure. It's so discombobulated.