KatjaThera

I kind of almost screamed in the office lol I need this like air! From that, I'm not sure it'll be that different from Aoi Honoo... those are interviews with him, too. But new interviews sounds good! Maybe with luck I'll be able to get that and have it shipped before I leave for Milan...

You know, now that you've put it in words, I feel very strongly that you are right. And I'm getting excited as opposed to nervous again lol (And I just realized that I've picked up using 'you know' at the beginning of sentences more... I blame it on Yuzu. Everytime I type that, I hear him saying "You know..." at COR KnC in my head...)

It's no problem, I actually like this sort of thing lol (I should do it more for work, too, though ^_^; ) I did include some of what you said in the list, because I think it's a great point. I do think the injury might have provided great circumstances for growing in other ways, too. Let's be fair, Yuzu can be ready to compete - maybe not at 100% - in very short periods of time (he was ready for Worlds 2015 in about a week. It was about the same for NHK '14, and even though those weren't great competitions, he came back from a lot bigger problems than now). The biggest problem is the psychological aspect and I think in some ways the injury might have been a blessing in disguise if he used the time to work on that. I think that's the best kind of argument, too lol And it's true. He's Yuzuru Hanyu, so anything is possible. XD Generally, I'd agree, anger is a great fuel for him. However, I haven't gotten the feeling he's angry at this point. Admittedly, we haven't really seen him, but he seems somewhere above anger this season... I'm not 100% sure that's good or bad lol I don't think having the yolo is that big an issue for him (unlike others), although it is obviously not ideal, especially for Seimei, where he doesn't have much room to improvise. As for popping, I don't think it's a bad thing... I think it might actually be part of not risking his limbs pointlessly. I think especially post Boston, he's been choosing not to take pointless risks with his health and popping might be part of it. (We know he does have what it takes to force rotations even when he knows he can't land, from CoC'14.) If only he had done the same at NHK with that one lutz, instead of forcing the landing, all the consequent drama might not have happened. I tend to doubt he'll pop at the Olympics. Not unless he feels really off or realizes it too late. I think he'll force as many rotations as possible, even if it means falling. If he thinks it's worth it. Being forced to water-down is my biggest concern, too. I personally tend to think the reason why he wasn't all that happy about the SP WR at ACI is because it was a watered down version (he probably might have also felt it'd make Brian and co more determined to get him to drop the Loop, let alone try the Lutz.) Of course there was also the challenge of watered down Seimei the next day, but I do think winning with a watered down program would make him very kuyashii, too, possibly as much as an imperfect program. As for miracle, I don't think him winning would be a miracle. It's be a great achievement from any number of points, but, to me, he is the best, so the only reason I'd find if he didn't win, would be that things just didn't fall into place when it mattered. But I agree he doesn't owe us anything. And I think he knows that. I think he wants the OGM for himself first and foremost. And if other people are happy if he gets it, great. If not, too bad. Like he said in the documentary, he has the highest expectations of himself, higher than anyone else. I'm happy he understands that, because, to me, it means he won't feel as much pressure from the outside. (If he were to win with Nessie or some other insane thing, then I'd revise my opinion on miracle, though LOL)

Actually, I'm not sure about the last. The problem is he wants the OGM, so getting injured before is not an option, so he'll be careful. But if push comes to shove and he feels he must and they might pay off, I'm sure he will take risks during the actual programs, especially the FS. I personally won't breathe easy until that final pose Brian loves to imitate so much.

Me, three and I was just imagining Brian sitting somewhere in Moscow, staring blankly and thinking about Yuzu and his quads...

I feel weird because the secrecy and quietness don't really bother me... (Maybe it's a consequence of being a fan of a musician who is a virtual hermit about 350 days a year...) I'm glad he's in TCC where they happily protect him from all outside interference and I think this will make his comeback even more spectacular. Yes, it's really nerveracking for us, and I get palpitations only just thinking about the Olympics, but in this case, I like the anticipation. It's like the calm before the storm and if everything falls into place, a win after all of this would be beyond epic. As befitting the GOAT, I would think.

Because Yuzu is occasionally a bad influence, I can confirm the tall, slim coke cans - which, it seems, have replaced the traditional ones at least in my part of Europe - is 330ml. (Mine is cherry, though :P) Regarding the news, I guess it's no real surprise. To me, 'back to training' means everything completely normal, no need to be careful, training as he would have if nothing had happened. (Remember, "training" for him is different than just doing stuff on ice. Like when he was talking about nessie, saying he wasn't training it, but had tried it, casually.) That 'fusasete' makes me wonder if it includes the JSF... as in hiding the content of his training from the JSF as well... it'd be smart in some ways, but a bit surprising. I'm not holding my breath for nessie or 4Lz combinations or so, but I do wonder what he has planned, because I'm not sure he'd say that if there was no change in plans...

Thank you! Weird, I just looked over that tumblr, the tech talk tag and I did not see this... maybe I need to get my eyes checked

Sorry, if this has been discussed before, but I'm curious: why did Yuzu get level 3 for the Seimei step sequence? (Or rather why do you think, because I don't think those calls get justified somewhere?) Wasn't that an issue with Seimei 1.0 as well?

I wish that studying footage had been released while I was still in Japan... there's a nice stationery shop near Asakusa I had wanted to go to again and this would have been a great excuse! (My obsession are colorful pens... I have a big jar of them in multiple shades, metallic, sparkly, shiny and everything in between and I'm always tempted to get more... at least when I was in school I used them for studying - it's SO much more fun to review stuff when it's written in nice shiny colors - but now... I have no idea what to use them for... but I still buy them Admittedly, they did come in handy when I used them on my sign to try to get tickets for NHK lol)

I updated the Pro and Con posts. I mentioned everyone for credit, as I think that's cleaner than quoting, but for longer posts, I kind of summer it up to the most important lines and linked to the rest of the posts, because it's a shame not to read the whole thing. Really great arguments all around! This has always been one of my fears, because the more you tell yourself not to think of something the more you actually think of it. So you can end up overthinking about overthinking. I really, really hope Yuzu has been working on the mental aspect during his off-ice time. That said, I was surprised by how, in some ways, he seems much more zen this season. Like, I wouldn't have imagined he'd be genuinely satisfied and happy with Rostelecom, but he was able to recognize that landing the Lutz was great enough. He seems somehow more... mellow. And mature. While still strong and ambitious. And, of course, it's really hard to judge, since our information is beyond limited, but for some reason, I have the feeling he's actually in a pretty good place mentally, especially compared to how he could have been.

Need a better quality video for screenshots, but the next part seems to say something about how not to pop 3A (before we run out of text). I wonder if his father gave him some advice, or he asked for some advice... (papa is cute, though... I wonder if he still calls him that... I always imagined his father as a serious school teacher that he'd address more politely/formally, like otousan... so papa is cute lol so then is his mother mama? )

Good point. I was just thinking of it just in the negative sense. Ah, if we go on personality traits, I might end up adding a hundred pros lol

I agree re: Nathan, too. IMO, nobody has the same quality jumps as Yuzu does. So I'd argue adding something like: Generally, higher GOE and PCS than his rivals, especially when clean. as a pro. And maybe Lower BV and varying GOE/PCS when not squeaky clean, compared to rivals. as a con. But I think that should maybe get discussed a bit first (though we're entering skating chat territory).

Slightly OT, but also following the documentary, with Hydro's encouragement, I've created a new thread to discuss Yuzuru's chances at getting his second OGM. There have been talks here before, but it's hard to go back and find them, for newer users who might have concerns already addressed, so the idea is to discuss that in its own thread, where it'd be easier to find.

Con arguments: Is prone to injuries Is very stubborn Old habits - over training, pushing too hard when not in top shape - are hard to break (NHK being the perfect example) There's no way of knowing where he's at competitively rn. Practices are one thing, competitions are another. (@CupidsBow More here.) preferential scoring might not exactly be on yuzu's side (@CupidsBow More here.) Yuzu might want it too much. like how he wanted a clean LGC at WTT too much. Yuzu can overthink himself into a car crash. (@CupidsBow More here.) His mistakes can be very costly in terms of points. While Nathan and Shoma can land not a very good jumps, even UR ones, Yuzu tends to pop if a take off/timing went wrong. Also all his combos are in the second half so he almost doesn't have a room to catch up if smth. goes wrong there. ( @Lunna) No competitions prior to Oly to test his mentality in competition environment ( @LadyLou More here.) Possibly psychological issues on jumps (popping in fear of injury) ( @LadyLou More here.) Possibly new layout and being forced to water-down, which he hates ( @LadyLou More here.) Also, imo deep down we're all expecting a miracle and those expectations might be bad pressure for Yuzuru. He doesn't owe us a miracle... ( @LadyLou More here.) Nathan is "undefeated" and has his BV and fed behind him. Shoma is going back to a layout he can hit more consistently and he might win 4CC with a bang. Javi might do the same at Euros (or Mika, and if that happens, Russia could legit have a contender, too, despite the lower bv than Shoma and Nathan) ( @LadyLou More here.)

Pro arguments: Experience with injuries (getting good results despite being injured; recovering from injuries); Also experience with facing great adversity: the earthquake, the CoC'14 crash etc. and coming out of it stronger. Arguments under spoiler: Takes much better care of himself; takes breaks when he feels even the slightest pain; didn't push through to skate despite getting injured in NHK Jun Hwan and Gabby's results show TCC skaters have had great success after recovering from multiple injuries He's stubborn (@theonecurriedplush) and ambitious Has a great grasp of the bigger picture - e.g. he realized the quad revolution was coming even while many others dismissed it His opponents don’t have info about his recovery, his training, and his progress while he’s aware of everyone’s (@ruruzest) The support of the fans in the arena will play a role to intimidate opponents psychologically and to boost his confidence (@ruruzest) the connection of Yuzu ‘s performance and audience will play a positive impact in judges(@ruruzest) he’s been in the Olympic before ( but I don’t know about this because he’s in a different position now).(@ruruzest) He’s Yuzuru Hanyu (@ruruzest) I have this strong feel, that as much as this means for all of the Olympians, it means more for Yuzu (@theonecurriedplush More here.) I also think proving a point to the people who have doubted him means a lot to him (@lilsailor More here.) it's his second rodeo, whereas for his (probably) greatest rivals, Nathan and Shoms it's the first one. Of course that doesn't shield him from Javi and Patrick. On the other hand experience hasn't exactly helped Patrick and Yuzu is going to put more pressure on himself than anybody else ( @Moria Polonius More here.) He already has Olympic experience so will have a better idea of what to expect going in the competition than younger skaters at the first Olympics, but without the pressure of feeling/knowing it is definitely his last (@CupidsBow More here.) Hype and the pressure of outside expectations uh can't really get higher for Yuzu (@CupidsBow More here.) A lot of the hype has lifted off Yuzu and has drifted elsewhere. With Nathan and Shoma getting all the attention Yuzu might just get pissed off enough to land clean programs out of spite. (@CupidsBow More here.) He has the ability. Looking at competitions he's missed I don't even necessarily think he has the be clean to win, although i know he wants that and that would see him willing in a clear-cut way with a fair margin. (@CupidsBow More here.) his experience in the free skate at Sochi. That was when he was under pressure as the leader. It was his to lose, he felt the pressure as the real gold contender instead of a first timer who needed to justify his inclusion by doing as well as he could and podium (@WinForPooh More here.) we haven't actually seen a completely clean and really great free skate from the man billed to take the OGM [Nathan] despite his undefeated season. If anything, his 4F UR has become more obvious and his 3A has become wobblier. He cannot beat a clean Yuzu. (@WinForPooh More here.) the focus on physical therapy, recovery, ALL OF THAT, instead of the succession of, and crescendo of, competitions, may have been a period of focusing on the day to day. (you see, this is a known meditation practice) This could well have been a time that gives him a wanted groundedness! ( @theonecurriedplush More here.) I'm thinking that he will go into the Olympics absolutely pissed that all his plans were derailed by injury. And I'm hoping that anger will override his nerves and cause him to deliver some great performances--just like he did with that Helsinki FS. ( @GreatLakesGal ) He's Yuzu, he can do it. ( @Lunna ) With 5 quads - there still will be 4 left if he'll pop one, so more chances to still have high BV even if not completely clean in FS and he doesn't have to yolo anything (=think too much and loose concentration) ( @Lunna ) Yuzuru likes challenges, he always pressures himself and he might get strenght from fans believing in miracles. ( @LadyLou More here) this time he might be more focused on fighting his way out from all his recent setbacks rather than on being perfect, so more a la gpf 2014 and Aci 2017 sp and less a la WTT SP or Boston FS ( @LadyLou More here) He has two programs he's comfortable with and he knows very well. He knows he can do well with those programs even when his body isn't in top condition/he missed training( @LadyLou More here) Judges might be flabbergasted if he does his come back in style and they might give him all the goe and pcs with a big "thank you for being back". (We can dream, right?) ( @LadyLou More here) His competitors looked much better earlier in the season and then they all kinda deflated. ( @LadyLou More here) Brian and Kikuchi looked really happy after his fs [at COR], which makes me think till then it was still according to the plan ( @LadyLou More here) He has JSF backing him up 100% at the moment, it seems, protecting his privacy, offering only enough information to let people know he's still around and still dangerous. Saying he can do both team events if he wants to is also a big plus. Training at TCC is a big plus, with its sheltered environment (also the great number of coaches and the good performances of his rink mates help him get a good feeling) Peaking: this year, once he's healthy, he can just train hard and go for the main event...... they say he reaches peak quickly, this is one time where (again, if healthy) that will be necessary ( @liv More here) He will feel like he's coming from behind for each program. We know he fights best when he's behind... this time, no matter if he has a 100 point lead in the short program, he's going to have to battle hard in the long program because he knows it'll be a challenge. So basically, his back will be to the wall every step of the way... which is good for him. ( @liv More here) Javi winning the Europeans. Aside from them being teammates, which means a good atmosphere at TCC, Yuzu was very fired up after Javi won Euros for the first time, feeling challenged by it. Sadly, it didn't pay off in 2013 due to his injury then, but I can imagine he might feel the same now.

So, after getting the OK from Hydro and staff, I'm starting this thread to discuss Yuzuru's chances at getting that second OGM he dreams of and that we all want for him. It's been a really difficult season and there are many concerns among us fans, so I think one way to try to survive until the Olympics is to discuss this and to compile a list of Pro and Con arguments for his chances of success. Of course, the aim is to have more pros than cons, but I think it's best to be honest and try to view things realistically (I personally think even so, the pros will outweigh the cons). I'll reserve the first two posts after this, the first for Pro arguments, which I - or maybe someone from the staff, if I'm too slow? - will edit to add new pro arguments as they come, and the second for Con arguments. The point of this is that if people want to look just at the Pro arguments, to be able to do it more easily. I'll add in the first few arguments I can think of, but feel free to discuss them, argue for/against etc. I know there have been some discussions along these lines in the General Thread Chat - which is also where I got the idea for this thread - but since not everyone can follow that closely, please bring your own arguments again here, so anyone interested in this can read them. (Quoting your own posts works, too).

Actually, if you go even further back, there's a bit of figure skating virtually every day... Wednesday 9:55 starts with GPF LGC, another day had two Boyang programs, then Yuzu's GPF 2015 ones.... And a program yesterday started with junior Yuzu, too. (The three hours run through of most of his great programs, I think; it aired a few months ago, too) And I like Aragaki Yui, too, so Yuzu has good tastes in my view Not that big on Miura Haruma... IMO, Yuzu looks better lol And I guess he had to graduate from Horikita and Ueto, given that they're both married with children by now lol

That was probably done by the same person who wrote/translated that ANA article lol

In the 24HTV last year, he/they (I don't remember exactly) said that he couldn't practice to the music (I guess maybe they meant runthroughs, though). But to be fair, I'm not sure they were talking about this time in particular, or in general, that after asthma attacks it hurts so much to breathe he can't practice with music/do runthroughs. (Though even then, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that was the case before Helsinki, too.) I do wish they would one day broadcast the whole interview he did for 24HTV. I'm sure he said more stuff that wasn't broadcast that might fill in some gaps.

For the doubters and to further develop what Aotoshiro said, let me present you with a concise list of Yuzu′s more crazy achievements: 2012 Worlds - won the free skate with a sprained ankle that kept him off the ice for four weeks after the competition 2013 Worlds - won the free skate (was it?) with ankle pain in one leg and knee pain in the other 2014 Cup of China - finished second overall, despite cuts on chin and forehead, that needed multiple stitches each, deep muscle pain in one thigh, a sprained ankle and bruised stomach/ribs and 5 falls, out of which two on quads 2014 Grand Prix Final - won, despite not having much time to practice and practicing alone, without Brian. Also won despite stomach aches that then made the trip home almost unbearable. 2014 Japan Nationals - won, despite an open, bleeding and infected wound in his stomach. Went straight to the hospital and got surgery a couple of days later. 2015 Worlds - second - and not by that huge a margin - despite only being able to practice for around a week before the competition, due to multiple complications and spraining an ankle while trying to hurry to recover after his surgery. 2015 - NHK Trophy, GPF - world record breaking performances despite the developing lisfranc injury (he won′t admit how bad it was at that point already, but it probably at least hurt). 2016 Worlds - won the SP despite the lisfranc injury which was bad by then. He still finished second (and the FS issues were probably more due to accumulated mental problems, including the stress of the injury and having to drop the toeloop, than the injury itself), although by then he feared he wouldn′t be able to skate again. Was off the ice for six weeks after that. 2017 Worlds - won the FS (and we can argue the SP issues were unrelated) despite an asthma attack two weeks prior and being unable to practice with music on (maybe in a few years we′ll know just how many days of practice he managed then; we might have another >>>.<<< moment then) 2018 ACI - SP World Record despite being off the ice for a week as caution for a potential knee problem. FS issues due to having to simplify his program and not being used to the layout rather than off ice time or knee problems. Ok, for quite a few of those he didn′t really have much in the way of rivals (it was either just Javi, which means second is the worst he could do, or not really anyone in Javi-less competitions), but still! Anyone who can look at that and honestly write Yuzu off... well there′s nothing more I can say. Of course, anything can happen. I wonder how many thought, after 4CC last year that Nathan wouldn’t even podium at Worlds? But that can happen to any of them. For all we know, Adam could win the Olympics, followed by Misha and Keiji. Or someone we don′t even really know. Anything can happen, but that’s no reason to write someone off. On the other hand, considering we keep getting people worried and wondering, maybe we should make a “Yuzu’s chances at the Olympics” thread and compile pro and con arguments for success. Then, when people feel worried they can go there and see the arguments. (I’m not a big fan of the waves of anxiety that keep popping up, but it is natural for people to worry and not everyone follows the General Thread) (Also, if I got any fact wrong, please let me know. I wrote it all from memory, as I have to go to work and don't have time to double check ^_^; )

I haven't watched the clips yet and I'm pretty sure I'll be feeling the angst when I do. But, to be honest, sometimes reading the posts here you'd think Yuzu broke half the bones in his body and has been bedridden since NHK. I think the cautiousness and JSF and TCC protecting him from the media has led to a general impression that everything is MUCH worse than it probably is. Of course, I could be wrong, but I think we're all feeling a bit too gloomy. (It probably also doesn't help that we're more used to hearing about Yuzu's injuries long after they happen as opposed to real time.) Somewhat OT, I don't know if this made it to the relevant thread and was discussed there, but it made me think a bit about TCC's attitude on this season: Javi said in an interview that his coaches had actually decided ahead of time that he wouldn't do the GPF even if he had qualified. Admittedly, Javi had more competitions and he has Europeans, too, and his situation and attitude are different than Yuzu's, but I think it might show TCC is more focused on training for the Olympics than competing. Which might just make Yuzu's situation somewhat less tragic in their eyes. Of course, training was problematic for him, too, but still. (Personally, I hope they used the off ice time to work on the mental aspects...)

Re: mentality, I'll quote one of my favorite book series: "Can't eviscerate essential self." Though whether taking risks is Yuzu's essential self, who knows? At the end of the day, we'll never know which is the best layout choice. If he wins, we'll think that was it, but maybe he would have won even bigger with another. He might not land 4Lz consistently and he might have had issues with 4Lo this season, but he might still land them both in Oly. Personally I think it's still more a matter of mental conditioning and things falling into place (behind the scenes/off the ice) than layouts. He'll never pick a layout he can't dp. The only thing is whether he'll be able to do it. Of course, certain layouts offer higher possibilities, but that doesn't mean he'll nail it. Just as a safe, lower probability of success layout doesn't mean he'll fail.

Everyone is talking about the H&L layout, but how many times did he do that cleanly in competition? Wasn't Helsinki the first time? (I don't really remember NHK, but I think it wasn't perfect?) So I wonder if it's really that big a difference? We don't know what he's been doing in practice and stressing about it too much will only create further meltdowns when he'll announce the planned layouts for Olys with people likely to despair before he even sets foot on the ice. Yuzu is Yuzu, he'll pick whatever he'll feel confident he can do and try his hardest with it. If he succeeds, he'll probably make history, and if not, I hope it'll be the option that will give him the least kuyashii. ETA: As for Nathan's results, didn't he get some... err... great scores last year, too? And then the hype carried on to 4CC but no further? So it's not really new, however you look at it. And even with all that, he didn't get close to the records. And the SP and overall were set with just 4S and 4T, no fancy flips and lutzes and a gazillion quads. Yuzu's biggest rival is still Yuzuru Hanyu.