Proposed changes for next season

[Xen]

1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

I don't see how this and the potential for -5 for bad landings/falls actually helps anybody. Sure Nathan has landed five kinds but his 4S and 4Lo are weak, he doesn't repeat the flip and lutz only for points. Yuzu has landed four, but his 4Lz is still new, all things considered. Shoma has landed four, but his 4Lo is all over the place and his 4S is dicey. Boyang probably can land the loop too but it's not a sure thing. I dunno. 

Well Yuzu has 3 stable quads, Nathan has 4 (though Sal in second half is iffy), Shoma has 3, Boyang has 3. The main difference as I've listed above, is the value of the 4Lz and 4F really balloons-to the degree if you only have 2 quads, just the 4Lz and 4F may be enough for you to do well, especially if you can on average get +3 GOEs. o_O This is not a universe for health and safety.

[WinForPooh]

20 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well Yuzu has 3 stable quads, Nathan has 4 (though Sal in second half is iffy), Shoma has 3, Boyang has 3. The main difference as I've listed above, is the value of the 4Lz and 4F really balloons-to the degree if you only have 2 quads, just the 4Lz and 4F may be enough for you to do well, especially if you can on average get +3 GOEs. o_O This is not a universe for health and safety.

That it definitely is not. Without GOE candy it might work a bit but there's no world without GOE candy. 

 

If GOE was applied properly, then if Yuzu can jump perfect positive GOE 4T, 4S, 4Lo and 3A, and we know he can, he'd benefit. Five jumps that can get 3-5 points on each. Those who till now relied on the added BV bump of Lz and/or F without the positive bullets would find that not repeating cuts down on that BV advantage. Two scratchy axels and borderline UR, no steps, no creative entry/exit Lz/F should knock at least a whole 4S worth of points off the new GOE scale.

 

But GOE candy, so.  

 

ETA: If a really great 4T/4S got as much as a mediocre 4Lz/4F and skaters could actually count on that scoring being done properly, they'd have incentive to go for GOE on the jumps they're comfortable with instead of going straight for 4Lz/F, too.

 

As things are, this, combined with how UR (often) is ignored, will help the US skaters - Nathan and Vincent. As long as they manage to land the quads.

[hoodie axel]

43 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Shoma has landed four, but his 4Lo is all over the place and his 4S is dicey

His 4S is probably the best option. His 4F and 4Lo are pretty awful. His 4T is fine.

[hoodie axel]

29 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

As things are, this, combined with how UR (often) is ignored, will help the US skaters - Nathan and Vincent. As long as they manage to land the quads.

I hope this changes. I can't take "judging" like in w18, that was a trigger to rant after rant on... a different place.

[WinForPooh]

6 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

His 4S is probably the best option. His 4F and 4Lo are pretty awful. His 4T is fine.

His 4F is never called, though. I like his 4S better than most of his other jumps. His 4Lo has the worst leg wrap on a small jump I've seen all season. I suppose those would be what they mean by the -5 jump under the new rules.

[hoodie axel]

4 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

His 4F is never called, though. I like his 4S better than most of his other jumps. His 4Lo has the worst leg wrap on a small jump I've seen all season. I suppose those would be what they mean by the -5 jump under the new rules.

Yeah, I'm just hoping the proposals are actually effective. But I guess we know they won't be...

[WinForPooh]

1 minute ago, hoodie axel said:

Yeah, I'm just hoping the proposals are actually effective. But I guess we know they won't be...

But I forgot, Shoma has great 3A, so he should also be able to count on good positive GOE 3A. 

 

I guess we won't know how it all works out until we see it applied. And even then, in three years, we will see the same thing as last season but amplified.

[hoodie axel]

The age limit rule has devolved into one of the worst debates.  The absolute worst.

[Xen]

2 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

The age limit rule has devolved into one of the worst debates.  The absolute worst.

That's actually deflecting from the real debate- the steps before jumps rule, and the no repeat quads rule.

The first one is being removed because....judges don't apply it consistently. The reason right there is pointedly an issue already.

For the second issue, no repeat quads. Well yes, I see why guys will need age  raised- just so they have more time to learn more quads and splat themselves in the junior ranks.

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

The first one is being removed because....judges don't apply it consistently. The reason right there is pointedly an issue already.

I think this is already subsumed under "the judging is biased" -- also proposed to be eliminated by NED.

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, hoodie axel said:

I think this is already subsumed under "the judging is biased" -- also proposed to be eliminated by NED.

eliminate judging? 

[hoodie axel]

36 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

eliminate judging? 

LOL. Ideally, we'd just turn FS into American Idol. 

[Yatagarasu]

Well this mess is out

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/documents-communications/isu-communications/17142-isu-communication-2168/file

 

It is ... at this point, it's just funny how hilariously awful all of this is.

But the 4A UR values take the cake. I cannot. I give up.

[Katt]

WOW so new GOE factor base on BV too o___o +1 GOE = 10% BV. You can get 17.25 max for a 4lz 

 

- You can still get positive GOE for UR/flutz/lip ???????

- BV and GOE for step/spin are mostly the same. GOE for stsq4 is even lower (+1.95)

- I can't get the logic with 3lz = 5.9 -> 4lz = 11.5 and 3A=8.0 -> 4A = 12.5 ? So basically, they encourage skater to try any quad but 4A. And if you UR it, it will worth less than an UR 4lo/4f/4lz

- No step require for solo jump in SP\

This is still proposal so it can be change... right ?????

[Yatagarasu]

@Katt Yes, it doesn't have to pass ... but ... it's kind of obvious who benefits here.

Check this out. I can't.

 

Regarding PCS

Quote

In a program containing a Fall or a Serious error the score ten (10) shall not be awarded for any of the Components.
In a program containing Falls or Serious errors the score nine-fifty (9.5) or higher should not be awarded for Skating Skills, Transitions and Composition and the score nine (9.0) or higher should not be awarded for Performance and Interpretation

 

And these are the serious errors for the tests TR 29.02A:

 

Quote

1. A fall;

2. Incomplete rotation of a jump, either on the landing or the take off;

3. Two-footed landing on jumps;

4. A touchdown of the hand or free foot needed to save the skater from falling;

5. A blatant change of edge before a jump (such as turning a Lutz into a flip);

6. When a combination jump is required, a turn between the two jumps of that combination;

7. Spins short one or more revolutions (see TR 29.02 (B)(5));

8. Failure to attain the required position(s) in the spin(s);

9. Omission of a required element.

 

So a UR or actually, finally, prerotation ... will affect PCS if ISU follows through?! 

Poor judges and poorer us because this is a mess.