Music talk

[TallyT]

6 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

 

LOL no worries! What I meant was it's a lot harder to choose an asian piece haha I just listened to it briefly and it's really good! Lovely piece! But it's a little soft and slow with no narrative so it would need to take a skater as good as Yuzuru to skate to this piece. 

 

I also like this 

 

 

That is lovely too... and truistme, the romance gets bigger and lusher towards the end (okay, so maybe it's exhibition music )

[Yatagarasu]

6 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

Oh yeah, I'm also surprised as to why the music choice for skating world is so limited/narrow?

 

I think it's several things, not just one, that's causing it.

For one, figure skating was quite Eurocentric, in both expression and aesthetics and then wider, is, in terms of the West. It's not odd really (though some actually believe in active conspiracies ) considering how we started way back, first with Europeans in Germany in 1891 and Worlds in Russia in 1896 and how it evolved here and then throughout the world. It is slow to accept outside influences and personally, I think this is something that requires active work by ISU especially when it comes to the judging. It needs to be encouraged because it is difficult to penetrate the bubble that exists. I don't quite remember what he said exactly but even Zu talked about this and the lack of appreciation in one of the bigger pressers he had post Olympics. It will probably slowly change but it is slow indeed. While we do have Yuzuru who can introduce Japanese music to us more, or peeps from China/Korea and even that is going slowly, then places that aren't really represented by major players have a mission impossible really. At least for now.

Then you have the "safe bets". They're also somewhat connected to the first part, so we have the classical pieces or the warhorses, and lately some songs, that get repeated over and over as everyone knows they are skate-able and the audience will recognize them and it will get them going. These pieces are also often music that on its own has impact. It isn't entirely up to the skater to carry the program - think H&L compared to Seimei. Seimei as a music piece is very impactful and you get all rah rah over it even without the skating, while H&L was almost completely on Yuzuru to express it through his skating. Very challenging and often the reception can be dodgy, as indeed H&L showed. Some of the iffy reception was yet again connected to the first thing I mentioned, as that music is more internal, more contained, more Asian in this instance than the outward aimed pieces that are mostly used. 

 

Presentation/interpretation will be 'easier' with those known warhorses and those choices where the music itself carries a chunk of the impression, so all those who are iffy on this part will naturally aim for them. Juniors especially as they are still learning but then it's Seniors that bug me, not the kids who are naturally just getting their footing. 

Oh and English too. Think how many songs used are in English, because again it's sort of a world language and they are more known and the audiences again will respond more easily if they understand. 

 

Choreographers often pick music, yes, so there we're limited to things they know or have access to. Then of course, they have to pick something that fits the individual skater too so that they can connect to the music at least somewhat. Here you can also get into trouble even with a warhorse or well known music, for various reasons - from cultural disconnect to language problems to the skater not being able to 'keep up' with the music or as we say, the music being too big for them.

Also when a 'new' piece of music is done, like for example P/C To Build a Home, then you have a tonne of people latching onto it. It's same old, same old that's been happening since forever and new warhorses are born. It's simply easier.

 

Anyway, I think it's a whole list of reasons that get stuffed into a bottle and then shaken and mixed. So we're left with this. 

[makebelieveup]

4 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

I think it's several things, not just one, that's causing it.

For one, figure skating was quite Eurocentric, in both expression and aesthetics and then wider, is, in terms of the West. It's not odd really (though some actually believe in active conspiracies ) considering how we started way back, first with Europeans in Germany in 1891 and Worlds in Russia in 1896 and how it evolved here and then throughout the world. It is slow to accept outside influences and personally, I think this is something that requires active work by ISU especially when it comes to the judging. It needs to be encouraged because it is difficult to penetrate the bubble that exists. I don't quite remember what he said exactly but even Zu talked about this and the lack of appreciation in one of the bigger pressers he had post Olympics. It will probably slowly change but it is slow indeed. While we do have Yuzuru who can introduce Japanese music to us more, or peeps from China/Korea and even that is going slowly, then places that aren't really represented by major players have a mission impossible really. At least for now.

Then you have the "safe bets". They're also somewhat connected to the first part, so we have the classical pieces or the warhorses, and lately some songs, that get repeated over and over as everyone knows they are skate-able and the audience will recognize them and it will get them going. These pieces are also often music that on its own has impact. It isn't entirely up to the skater to carry the program - think H&L compared to Seimei. Seimei as a music piece is very impactful and you get all rah rah over it even without the skating, while H&L was almost completely on Yuzuru to express it through his skating. Very challenging and often the reception can be dodgy, as indeed H&L showed. Some of the iffy reception was yet again connected to the first thing I mentioned, as that music is more internal, more contained, more Asian in this instance than the outward aimed pieces that are mostly used. 

 

Presentation/interpretation will be 'easier' with those known warhorses and those choices where the music itself carries a chunk of the impression, so all those who are iffy on this part will naturally aim for them. Juniors especially as they are still learning but then it's Seniors that bug me, not the kids who are naturally just getting their footing. 

Oh and English too. Think how many songs used are in English, because again it's sort of a world language and they are more known and the audiences again will respond more easily if they understand. 

 

Choreographers often pick music, yes, so there we're limited to things they know or have access to. Then of course, they have to pick something that fits the individual skater too so that they can connect to the music at least somewhat. Here you can also get into trouble even with a warhorse or well known music, for various reasons - from cultural disconnect to language problems to the skater not being able to 'keep up' with the music or as we say, the music being too big for them.

Also when a 'new' piece of music is done, like for example P/C To Build a Home, then you have a tonne of people latching onto it. It's same old, same old that's been happening since forever and new warhorses are born. It's simply easier.

 

Anyway, I think it's a whole list of reasons that get stuffed into a bottle and then shaken and mixed. So we're left with this. 

Oh you explained it so well! I definitely agree! I do remember seeing a video with Yuzuru saying to the press how asian skaters aren't perceived to be very "artistic" in this sport and he wants to change that perception. I heard Figure Skating used to be ruled by the trinity: US, Russia, and Canada. There's definitely bias in the ISU judging system, but I'm glad to see how Yuzuru is revolutionizing the sport over time. Now there are definitely more asian skaters even the top ones. Although I sorta expect the post Yuzu era will somehow revert to what it would be before as the coming generation includes strong skaters like Stephen Gogolev, who is a Russian Canadian and the whole Ladies' Single field is predominantly Russian from Junior to Senior levels. 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, TallyT said:

 

That is lovely too... and truistme, the romance gets bigger and lusher towards the end (okay, so maybe it's exhibition music )

 

I think so too, it'll definitely nice to see it beings skate to in a gala

[Yatagarasu]

9 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

Oh you explained it so well! I definitely agree! I do remember seeing a video with Yuzuru saying to the press how asian skaters aren't perceived to be very "artistic" in this sport and he wants to change that perception. I heard Figure Skating used to be ruled by the trinity: US, Russia, and Canada. There's definitely bias in the ISU judging system, but I'm glad to see how Yuzuru is revolutionizing the sport over time. Now there are definitely more asian skaters even the top ones. Although I sorta expect the post Yuzu era will somehow revert to what it would be before as the coming generation includes strong skaters like Stephen Gogolev, who is a Russian Canadian and the whole Ladies' Single field is predominantly Russian from Junior to Senior levels. 

 

I just remembered a comment by TAT from last season, about Wakaba and her SP. She was commenting how she well she was expressing the music, it was sort of a surprise for her as Wakaba is Japanese but got to the heart of it, and really that's a good example of what we talked about. She did connect but many won't, so we're left with the need for skaters to skate to that which is closer to them and yet, it's an issue. Anyway, yes, those comments. 
Well, those are the three big feds indeed. I think in re to this, the judging bias often isn't even intentional in this area. It is simply how it is, you grow up in a certain environment or are immersed in it during education and it's simply closer to you. It's why the need to consciously perhaps keep an open mind to a different aesthetic, at least at first so ISU would need to poke. But they don't with far simpler things so eh, horses and all. 

 

Yuzuru's definitely an influencer. You have to keep in mind that there is a whole group of skaters who are growing up now during his era. When you look at Novice and Junior programs you can spot it so easily. That won't go away even once he retires because they were immersed in it while they grew up and in general he's a legend so the need to emulate will be present for a long time. So that's good. Also we're living in an increasingly multi-cultural world so that'll help too, a world that's more and more interconnected and where access to things is growing, which will also help. We do have Russians who are dominating the ladies field but Japanese girls are also very talented. I am not sure what will happen to the guys but I believe in folks like Sota, and Kazuki, and Shun one day. China's in a bit of a lull but Koreans are going strong. Junior levels have new countries where the skating is still in its infancy but it exists. 

 

One place where I wish we had more variety is ID. ID is often a mover in skating but there we're still lacking in Asian pairs (Chris and Kana making me sigh again, they had such a huge opportunity). So it's slow and yes, it'll probably go up and down but at least it's started. 

Another problem is that it's a very expensive sport and in general the issues skating has, so it's slow to spread in the world in certain parts. You need more than a ball and pair of shoes and some grass. It'd probably go faster if we had wider reach. But ah well. Hopefully it'll happen in time. 

[ballaed]

i'd love for him to do ABBA some day, The Winner Takes it All is just screaming for someone to do a layback IB to "THE WINNER TAKES IT AAALLLL" then hydroblade into, "the loser standing smaaaall" i mean COME ON

 

but it would also be cool if he could make skating to Eastern songs mainstream, im sick of skaters who dont even speak english or dont really listen to western music being forced to skate to songs from like Simon & Garfunkel lol

[Xen]

I wonder what Yuzu would do for music choices (or better yet, what Jeff and Shae would do). Considering his fame, he might bring some recognition to lesser known musical pieces or composers-and then maybe we'll see more diversity in skating music.

 

Now....to see if there is some asian tango piece since I did bet on him bringing a tango or latin piece to the SP.

[ballaed]

Bollywood would be so fresh, dont get me wrong I'd love to see a tango but no one ever does Bollywood and there's so many good selections to choose from! The only style Yuzu's truly never done is a style where he's at Keegan Messing level of happy, like smiling through a program and bollywood would so good for him to do that 

[Yatagarasu]

30 minutes ago, ballaed said:

Bollywood would be so fresh, dont get me wrong I'd love to see a tango but no one ever does Bollywood and there's so many good selections to choose from! The only style Yuzu's truly never done is a style where he's at Keegan Messing level of happy, like smiling through a program and bollywood would so good for him to do that 

 

One has to be super careful there though because considering some of the history, it is so easy for it to become more of a parody. 
There is this though!

Spoiler

 

 

I admit, I don't really see Zu and Bollywood but yes, there's plenty of things that can be tried. 

[TallyT]

17 hours ago, Xen said:

I wonder what Yuzu would do for music choices (or better yet, what Jeff and Shae would do). Considering his fame, he might bring some recognition to lesser known musical pieces or composers-and then maybe we'll see more diversity in skating music.

 

I do think there's an expectation that at least one of the programs will be Japanese (even if he has Haru yo koi as his exhibition piece), he's sort of built that idea up for himself

 

But he doesn't have to.  That's the beauty of it, Yuzuru can do such an amazing range of styles, music, programs... more than pretty much anyone else I can think of, he can probably take something you'd never think of and make it work.

 

And he has nothing to prove anymore. This is going to be fun.

 

(Unless he decides - having nothing more to prove - that he is going to go back and repeat every single program in his life until he gets them all perfect... and we could be here for a while, folks)

[Sammie]

3 minutes ago, TallyT said:

 

I do think there's an expectation that at least one of the programs will be Japanese (even if he has Haru yo koi as his exhibition piece), he's sort of built that idea up for himself

 

But he doesn't have to.  That's the beauty of it, Yuzuru can do such an amazing range of styles, music, programs... more than pretty much anyone else I can think of, he can probably take something you'd never think of and make it work.

 

And he has nothing to prove anymore. This is going to be fun.

 

(Unless he decides - having nothing more to prove - that he is going to go back and repeat every single program in his life until he gets them all perfect... and we could be here for a while, folks)

All the way from his Sing Sing Sing days with Quads added 

I really can see him doing this just to say why not who going to stop him 

[makebelieveup]

 

So I got desperate in this Yuzuru drought and decided to create a "new program" for him LOL I made small edits from his program from FTT here and there to fit the music from Empress of the Palace. FTT isn't my favorite Yuzuru program so I didn't watch it very often. But with this music I think I shamelessly enjoy it more.  

[Sammie]

So I had a dream last night and this was Yuzu program and his costume was what the soldiers was wearing with harness and everything. He looked like Levi 

[TallyT]

6 hours ago, Sammie said:

So I had a dream last night and this was Yuzu program and his costume was what the soldiers was wearing with harness and everything. He looked like Levi 

 

I want ... mainly because the entire skating world would implode at first sight of him in that (with sparkles, mind you, because it's Yuzu and Yuzu has to sparkle)

[Sammie]

16 minutes ago, TallyT said:

 

I want ... mainly because the entire skating world would implode at first sight of him in that (with sparkles, mind you, because it's Yuzu and Yuzu has to sparkle)

Oh absolutely. The harness on his legs would be decked out in crystals  

[Yatagarasu]

7 hours ago, Sammie said:

So I had a dream last night and this was Yuzu program and his costume was what the soldiers was wearing with harness and everything. He looked like Levi 

 

Did he get eaten?