Japanese study group

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, kaerb said:

it's so much easier to use kanji when typing so I forget haha. 

 

The funny thing about how Japanese typing works is that it makes me use kanji I don't know yet  which kinda slows me down because then I have to go on jisho and check if the automatic kanji inserted is the right one, or if it means a completely different thing. I had embarassing moments when it happened...

[Hydroblade]

2 hours ago, surimi said:

 

Ok, thanks! If that's not too much bother for folks, kana equivalents would be great to have. But I'll try jisho as well. :]

Rikaichan if you use Firefox, rikaikun if you use chrome

1 hour ago, Murieleirum said:

 

The funny thing about how Japanese typing works is that it makes me use kanji I don't know yet  which kinda slows me down because then I have to go on jisho and check if the automatic kanji inserted is the right one, or if it means a completely different thing. I had embarassing moments when it happened...

Oh boy this... So much 😂

[五十嵐 美幸]

3 hours ago, surimi said:

So if I understand correctly, if I want to translate sentences such as 'It's not about me, it's about you' or 'I cannot decide, you choose' or another one where 'you' is emphasized, I just use '[name]san' etc? Not that I would be able to form such sentences yet, just asking hypothetically.

 

Question for the learners, is there any software or anything that turns kanji in forum posts into kana? I doubt it, with the multiple readings, but on the other hand, this newbie feels miserable because she can't understand half of what's being said here, knowing only a few kanji so far. Or maybe if some of the more advanced students and natives could add kana transcriptions to the senteces and words they use in their explanations, it would be much appreciated.

 

Okay, no app, old time stuff but if you go to Jim Breen's edict, there is a "text glossing" option. If you paste Japanese text into that, it'll give you translations for all kanji in that part and common kana terms.

 

It's of course useless for verb modifiers, but I've yet to find any software, app or whatever that really handles those.

 

And I want someone to write an app that automatically places furigana.

[Danibellerika]

5 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Hahahaahha I always appreciate the effort, really! My biggest problem is that their accent is so strong, I often cannot understand the words they're trying to say... the other day one person was trying to explain to me that なくちゃいけません　was more 'casual' than なければならない... but you can probably guess how the word "casual" sounds in a heavy Japanese accent. Exactly. Unrecognizable 

 

I've had an italian girl (Japanese student) tell me that she didn't like Japan at all, when she went there for a year to study. She felt like no one treated her seriously and everyone "treated her like a doll" because she was a young beautiful foreigner. 

 

I didn't want to believe her - or better yet, I think her difficulties came from language and cultural differences, and NOT because Japanese people are rude with foreigners in general. Because I simply think such generalisations are always wrong - and often, you attract what you are afraid of. So, maybe she became a little paranoid because she was afraid that people wouldn't take her seriously. Honestly, to me, she seemed a little presumptuous in her behaviors and way of speaking. And presumption doesn't stand well with Japanese people, I think. So that's where her problems came from. 

 

6 hours ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

Well, some Japanese kind of "run away" when they see a foreigner but that's just because they are afraid they have to speak English. 

 

If they do talk to you in the first place, conversation usually is friendly, I think.

 

Oh and I almost forgot, there are also some Japanese you might have to beware of, who think they can speak English and want to talk to you in it... 😅

I've had that happen.  I just smile and nod, haha.  I also remember being in Tokyo one night, just this January, and I was walking back to my hotel and a guy stopped and looked at me in wonder and then shook my hand. He looked like he was drinking a little though, haha.  I mean yeah, I'm not Japanese but it's Tokyo, central Tokyo at that. Wouldn't be the first foreigner walking about. I should have actually spoken to him in Japanese to see what reaction I would have received, haha.  And in Helsinki I was stopped by Japanese fans for my Pooh ears and they tried speaking in English (some better than others), and were floored I could speak it. I noticed there was a lot more relief. 

 

I have another あなた question. I feel like I read or was taught that even if you don't refer to people as あなた, it is okay to do it when you don't know the person's name.  Like, let's say someone was walking by and you noticed they dropped their wallet. If you picked it up and approached them, you could say "すみません、これはあなたの財布ですか。"  Is that acceptable or is there another way to say it? 

 

 

[katonice]

よろしい! I finally installed Japanese  input option  on my phone. でも　少し遅いです。とにかく、だんだん覚えてますね。

 

And  it  took me a while to write that lol. 

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, Danibellerika said:

And in Helsinki I was stopped by Japanese fans for my Pooh ears and they tried speaking in English (some better than others), and were floored I could speak it. I noticed there was a lot more relief. 

 

 

This! Japanese people are so happy when they find someone who speaks Japanese outside of Japan!  In Helsinki I asked a couple of Japanese ladies what were they waiting in line for (for the flowers), and I barely replied when they asked me whether I was a fan of Yuzu (I get too excited when Japanese people speak to me LOL I forget basic words like YES), and yet they complimented my Japanese as if I had made a complicated speech on how wonderful a skater Yuzuru is 

[Hydroblade]

27 minutes ago, katonice said:

よろしい! I finally installed Japanese  input option  on my phone. でも　少し遅いです。とにかく、だんだん覚えてますね。

 

And  it  took me a while to write that lol. 

Is your keyboard like this one?

It took me some time to learn how to type fast with it but now it's really easy  

[五十嵐 美幸]

10 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

 

I've had that happen.  I just smile and nod, haha.  I also remember being in Tokyo one night, just this January, and I was walking back to my hotel and a guy stopped and looked at me in wonder and then shook my hand. He looked like he was drinking a little though, haha.  I mean yeah, I'm not Japanese but it's Tokyo, central Tokyo at that. Wouldn't be the first foreigner walking about. I should have actually spoken to him in Japanese to see what reaction I would have received, haha.  And in Helsinki I was stopped by Japanese fans for my Pooh ears and they tried speaking in English (some better than others), and were floored I could speak it. I noticed there was a lot more relief. 

 

I have another あなた question. I feel like I read or was taught that even if you don't refer to people as あなた, it is okay to do it when you don't know the person's name.  Like, if someone was walking by and you noticed they dropped their wallet. If you picked it up and approached them, you could say "すみません、これはあなたの財布ですか。"  Is that acceptable or is there another way to say it? 

 

 

 

Actually there IS a formal Japanese term for "you," it's "お宅" - not to be confused with オタク even if they sound the same ^^; - so you could say "お宅の財布ですか。"

 

But would be the more common thing would be to say "お財布、落としました。" That is, putting an o or go honorific prefix to whatever the thing in question is to indicate that it belongs to the person addressed. 

 

Though actually that takes a bit of practice or experience to know to which words you can add the prefix and which not. Rule of thumb, yes if it's obviously personal - a wallet, clothes - but not so much if it's something more generic, like a book or so.

 

Actually for starters, what you can't go wrong with is saying "これは、お宅のものですか。"

 

Japanese use it as well and you don't need to search for unknown words in a dictionary before you can say something. 😉

 

7 minutes ago, katonice said:

よろしい! I finally installed Japanese  input option  on my phone. でも　少し遅いです。とにかく、だんだん覚えてますね。

 

And  it  took me a while to write that lol. 

 

Congratulations! 😀

 

One small mistake: you'd say だんだん覚えます - instead of 覚えてます - because it's like remembering one step at a time, not a continuous action. 

 

Sorry, I'm lousy at grammar terms. T_T

 

4 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

This! Japanese people are so happy when they find someone who speaks Japanese outside of Japan!  In Helsinki I asked a couple of Japanese ladies what were they waiting in line for (for the flowers), and I barely replied when they asked me whether I was a fan of Yuzu (I get too excited when Japanese people speak to me LOL I forget basic words like YES), and yet they complimented my Japanese as if I had made a complicated speech on how wonderful a skater Yuzuru is 

 

It's a national weakness. 

 

If a foreigner says "今日は" - never

mind you actually rarely use that - some Japanese will say "日本語、お上手ですね。"

 

It's kind of embarrassing. 😅

[Hydroblade]

23 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

It's a national weakness. 

 

If a foreigner says "今日は" - never

mind you actually rarely use that - some Japanese will say "日本語、お上手ですね。"

 

It's kind of embarrassing. 😅

I find it endearing for some reason haha. And even though i know it's true and they always say that i feel obliged to say something like そんなことないです  (i am terrible at formal language. Like, really really bad  i should really work on that)

[五十嵐 美幸]

3 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

I find it endearing for some reason haha. And even though i know it's true and they always say that i feel obliged to say something like そんなことないです  (i am terrible at formal language. Like, really really bad  i should really work on that)

 

そんなことはないです。

 

😉

 

And that's a perfectly acceptable answer. 

 

Unless you'd talk to 真壁会長 or so. 

 

Then you'd say そんなことではごさいません。

[Hydroblade]

Just now, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

そんなことはないです。

 

😉

 

And that's a perfectly acceptable answer. 

 

Unless you'd talk to 真壁会長 or so. 

 

Then you'd say そんなことではごさいません。

See, that's another problem i have, i drop a lot of particles and i'm not sure why   (maybe because they're my nemesis lmao)

[Danibellerika]

17 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

Actually there IS a formal Japanese term for "you," it's "お宅" - not to be confused with オタク even if they sound the same ^^; - so you could say "お宅の財布ですか。"

 

But would be the more common thing would be to say "お財布、落としました。" That is, putting an o or go honorific prefix to whatever the thing in question is to indicate that it belongs to the person addressed. 

 

Though actually that takes a bit of practice or experience to know to which words you can add the prefix and which not. Rule of thumb, yes if it's obviously personal - a wallet, clothes - but not so much if it's something more generic, like a book or so.

 

Actually for starters, what you can't go wrong with is saying "これは、お宅のものですか。"

 

Japanese use it as well and you don't need to search for unknown words in a dictionary before you can say something. 😉

 

 

Congratulations! 😀

 

One small mistake: you'd say だんだん覚えます - instead of 覚えてます - because it's like remembering one step at a time, not a continuous action. 

 

Sorry, I'm lousy at grammar terms. T_T

 

 

It's a national weakness. 

 

If a foreigner says "今日は" - never

mind you actually rarely use that - some Japanese will say "日本語、お上手ですね。"

 

It's kind of embarrassing. 😅

Thanks! This is so helpful!  お宅 is really easy to remember. But you know what I was actually also thinking about it along the lines of what you said. I almost wrote it that way, so I feel good that at least I have a little intuition about it. I need more practice with the honorifics, but your rule of thumb helps.  It seems like in general, you say things in an indirect way. It's similar to how instead of saying "I'm thirsty" you say "喉が渇きました" (my throat dried out) or instead of "I'm hungry" you say "お腹が空きました" (my stomach is empty).  It's not direct, but you can infer what that means from the statement. If your stomach is empty, of course that must mean your hungry, etc.  

 

Just to make sure I learned this right from previous experience, we don't say 今日は when speaking, but when writing it we are supposed to include the は, or use the comma in its place, right?  Like "今日、"

 

And then I notice you use "お上手ですね。"  When is that good to add the お?  Is there another rule of thumb there? 

 

 

[Danibellerika]

51 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

Is your keyboard like this one?

It took me some time to learn how to type fast with it but now it's really easy  

I have it and I love it but I'm hardly on my phone when typing, so it takes me a little while too. Part of me wants it to do speech to text so damn bad because it'd be faster, haha.  But mine is set to English. It's great though and I do like that it has autocomplete for common words. 

[五十嵐 美幸]

14 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

See, that's another problem i have, i drop a lot of particles and i'm not sure why   (maybe because they're my nemesis lmao)

 

Don't worry, even Japanese do it. 

 

Or let me rephrase that: be aware you have the tendency and try to avoid it, but if you're just talking to someone in an everyday situation, don't worry about it. Nobody's going to expect you to be perfect.

 

Actually, no one will expect you to be perfect if you were talking to Majabe-kaicho either. But what I'd recommend is that if you know in advance you're going to meet some high ranking person like that - or even "only" someone important to you, like Yuzu - you think ahead of what you want to say and "polish" it.

 

Because even while they wouldn't expect it, they'd feel honoured that you made the effort to do it. 

 

If you do'd repeat it often enough to yourself, you'd even remember it when/if you meet. 😉

 

14 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

Thanks! This is so helpful!  お宅 is really easy to remember. But you know what I was actually also thinking about it along the lines of what you said. I almost wrote it that way, so I feel good that at least I have a little intuition about it. I need more practice with the honorifics, but your rule of thumb helps.  It seems like in general, you say things in an indirect way. It's similar to how instead of saying "I'm thirsty" you say "喉が渇きました" (my throat dried out) or instead of "I'm hungry" you say "お腹が空きました" (my stomach is empty).  It's not direct, but you can infer what that means from the statement. If your stomach is empty, of course that must mean your hungry, etc.  

 

Just to make sure I learned this right from previous experience, we don't say 今日は when speaking, but when writing it we are supposed to include the は, or use the comma in its place, right?  Like "今日、"

 

And then I notice you use "お上手ですね。"  When is that good to add the お?  Is there another rule of thumb there? 

 

 

 

Exactly, re 今日は。Though actually you sometimes do use 今日 in spoken language, if it's used as きょう = today. Just not as the こんにちは greeting.

 

お as in お上手 or also for example お元気ですか you generally use when whatever you're saying refers to the person you're talking to, like saying they are good at something or inquiring after their health.

 

The difference is "mine" vs "yours" - for example, talking about "my parents" it's "親 / おや" but asking after their's it's "ご両親 / ごりょうしん"

 

And saying things indirectly actually is historically a cultural thing, not saying something outright avoids embarrassment. Like, if you say your throat has dried out, it leaves the other person with the options, like offering you something to drink or suggest you go for coffee or so or just say something like "大変ですね。" if for example they can't offer you something. Or don't want to have anything to with you, without having to say so. 

 

Can't of course isn't so common these days, but historically, if someone not well off couldn't have afforded to offer whatever was implied, commiserations would suffice. While in case of an outright "I'm hungry/thirsty" they'd have to admit they can't afford it would have embarrassed both them and you. 

 

Pardon the history the history lesson, please.

 

One more thing on verbs - pesky things  - it would be "お腹が空いてきました" because it's a process over time (for want of a better way to explain it). But also, you'll be understood the way you said it as well.

 

Oh and it's お腹 even if it's your own because it's a thing that deserves respect, but that'll a whole different topic again.

 

 

[Hydroblade]

47 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

I have it and I love it but I'm hardly on my phone when typing, so it takes me a little while too. Part of me wants it to do speech to text so damn bad because it'd be faster, haha.  But mine is set to English. It's great though and I do like that it has autocomplete for common words. 

It's pretty funny that as soon as i select は it suggests 羽生 makes some interesting sentences haha