Japanese study group

[axelsandwich]

Quick translation check - does 生きる希望 in this context suggest that she wants to say (to Yuzu) that:

1. Yuzu gives her hope in life? (essentially that he makes her life more hopeful/positive)
2. He's her hope for living? (which sounds very...uh...serious in English like she's dying or suffering and Yuzu keeps her alive but it's more personal to her).
3. Or that Yuzu is a living hope? (like a living embodiment of hope) 

Or another translation? 

 

[sister555]

3 時間前, SuzyQ said:

 

I never use the 助詞 が this way myself as it sounds awkward to me, although I'm not sure whether it is grammatically correct or not.  Anyway, it is true that I have not noticed, or felt this kind of uneasiness before with the usage of が, which means, as far as I feel, it is now used more frequently than before.  If linguistic professionals say no problem with that usage, I have no reason to deny it, but maybe I will not say that way and keep saying ”アクセサリーを売っている” or ”アクセサリーが売られている” instead, as it is easier to my mouth and ears 

 

Rest assured!  Linguistic professionals would never say 「アクセサリーが売ってる」 is correct!!

 

But young girls often omit 「が」 in this case, like:

 

あ、アクセサリー売ってる！！

 

Which is very often heard. 

[SuzyQ]

12 分ぐらい, sister555 said:

 

Rest assured!  Linguistic professionals would never say 「アクセサリーが売ってる」 is correct!!

 

But young girls often omit 「が」 in this case, like:

 

あ、アクセサリー売ってる！！

 

Which is very often heard. 

 

Thank you for your assurance 

 

I agree youngsters talks may be the carrier of the linguistic transition.

 

Basically,

 

お店がアクセサリーを売っている。

お店でアクセサリーが売られている。

 

It seems these are now being transformed into the new usage via shortened sentences by young (mainly) girls

 

Boys?  Their talks are sometimes like the level of （おはよう）っす！、（ありがとうございま）したっ！

（いらっしゃい）ませっ！ 

 

But, young athletes including skaters these days talk in a very decent way.  I think good athletes need to be clever and logical as well.

What I am impressed by Yuzuru is that he calls his parents 父 and 母 in formal occasions, not お父さん or お母さん.  This is another thing I feel uneasiness recently when young idols or even athletes call their family members including parents (Please don't hate me as naggish ).  When I was a child, I was told by elder people not to call my own family members with  honorific words (お、さん etc.) in formal occasions.  Maybe Yuzuru is following his parents good teaching.

 

But, once, in a casual talk, he called his sister ”ねーちゃん”, really casual way of calling his sister like "sis".  I was put into 萌え instantly by that gap and his love for ねーちゃん 

 

[sister555]

6 分ぐらい, SuzyQ said:

 

Thank you for your assurance 

 

I agree youngsters talks may be the carrier of the linguistic transition.

 

Basically,

 

お店がアクセサリーを売っている。

お店でアクセサリーが売られている。

 

It seems these are now being transformed into the new usage via shortened sentences by young (mainly) girls

 

Boys?  Their talks are sometimes like the level of （おはよう）っす！、（ありがとうございま）したっ！

（いらっしゃい）ませっ！ 

 

But, young athletes including skaters these days talk in a very decent way.  I think good athletes need to be clever and logical as well.

What I am impressed by Yuzuru is that he calls his parents 父 and 母 in formal occasions, not お父さん or お母さん.  This is another thing I feel uneasiness recently when young idols or even athletes call their family members including parents (Please don't hate me as naggish ).  When I was a child, I was told by elder people not to call my own family members with  honorific words (お、さん etc.) in formal occasions.  Maybe Yuzuru is following his parents good teaching.

 

But, once, in a casual talk, he called his sister ”ねーちゃん”, really casual way of calling his sister like "sis".  I was put into 萌え instantly by that gap and his love for ねーちゃん 

 

 

Rest assured, nobody will hate you!!

 

One more knowledge.

 

Although 「ねーちゃん」exists, this way of writing is used to express like, a drunken middle-aged man calling to a young lady.

Ex.:  ねーちゃんいい尻してるねえ！

 

"Nei-chan" used in a casual conversation to denote an elder sister is written as 「ねえちゃん」.

This would not remind Japanese of a drunken middle-aged bastard!  (^_-)-☆

[SuzyQ]

11 分ぐらい, sister555 said:

 

 

Although 「ねーちゃん」exists, this way of writing is used to express like, a drunken middle-aged man calling to a young lady.

Ex.:  ねーちゃんいい尻してるねえ！

 

"Nei-chan" used in a casual conversation to denote an elder sister is written as 「ねえちゃん」.

This would not remind Japanese of a drunken middle-aged bastard!  (^_-)-☆

 

I didn't notice to that extent 

[sister555]

15 分ぐらい, SuzyQ said:

 

I didn't notice to that extent 

 

You can remember 「ねえさん」「ねえちゃん」 are usual, and 

「ねーちゃん」「ねーちゃん」are rare, and thus have some special connotations.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

6 時間前, kaerb said:

Quick translation check - does 生きる希望 in this context suggest that she wants to say (to Yuzu) that:

1. Yuzu gives her hope in life? (essentially that he makes her life more hopeful/positive)
2. He's her hope for living? (which sounds very...uh...serious in English like she's dying or suffering and Yuzu keeps her alive but it's more personal to her).
3. Or that Yuzu is a living hope? (like a living embodiment of hope) 

Or another translation? 

 

 

Hmmm...if I were to pick one, I think I'd go with the first. Simply cos if I were to use those same words, that would be how I'd mean them.

[Hydroblade]

7 hours ago, SuzyQ said:

 

Congratulations to your good result 

I'm quite sure you know about Japanese grammar much better than I do 

I actually consider myself not good at grammar, as I do a lot of it by instinct. However I remember the patterns I didn't know and I studied in the course because I hear the language a lot and have been doing so for some time. 

Another reason why I did good on the test: it was entirely in Japanese and we're not asked to translate had I been asked to do that, my grade would have dropped a lot hahaha

[SuzyQ]

1 時間前, Hydroblade said:

I actually consider myself not good at grammar, as I do a lot of it by instinct. However I remember the patterns I didn't know and I studied in the course because I hear the language a lot and have been doing so for some time. 

Another reason why I did good on the test: it was entirely in Japanese and we're not asked to translate had I been asked to do that, my grade would have dropped a lot hahaha

 

Then you have an excellent linguistic instinct for sure.  You may be trilingual or quadlingual, right?  I envy you.

 

But, I agree with you that translation may be another matter.  It reminds me that the interpreter I saw on TV the other day just astonished me.  She was doing simultaneous E-J interpretation of the show by PPAP   I wondered what's going on inside her brain.    There are sometimes unbelievably talented people.  I can never handle translation of jokes. 

 

 

[Hydroblade]

1 minute ago, SuzyQ said:

 

Then you have an excellent linguistic instinct for sure.  You may be trilingual or quadlingual, right?  I envy you.

 

But, I agree with you that translation may be another matter.  It reminds me that the interpreter I saw on TV the other day just astonished me.  She was doing simultaneous E-J interpretation of the show by PPAP   I wondered what's going on inside her brain.    There are sometimes unbelievably talented people.  I can never handle translation of jokes. 

 

 

I think it is because i've been learning languages all my life, and i am somewhat conscious of my language acquiring process. I consider myself bilingual, since my japanese fluency isn't at a level where i could say with confidence that i am trilingual  

 

I can do simultaneous english-spanish and spanish-english translation but it's too tiring and my brain goes all funny, makes me feel like a machine. I wouldn't do it by choice, i really admire those who do that for a living, i envy their mental agility!

 

---

Btw, i was thinking of a little something to encourage us who are studying :D

How about doing weekly challenges? Reading, writing, speaking... To keep us motivated and receive feedback  

[Sombreuil]

14 minutes ago, SuzyQ said:

 

Then you have an excellent linguistic instinct for sure.  You may be trilingual or quadlingual, right?  I envy you.

 

But, I agree with you that translation may be another matter.  It reminds me that the interpreter I saw on TV the other day just astonished me.  She was doing simultaneous E-J interpretation of the show by PPAP   I wondered what's going on inside her brain.    There are sometimes unbelievably talented people.  I can never handle translation of jokes. 

 

 

If if this is off topic please delete- but it reminds me of learning Latin. At my school we used the Cambridge course which emphasised translating the spirit of the poem/history/myth etc that you were putting into English, rather than the traditional  sentence analysis literal translations that had been used for many years.  When I did a university course the traditional tutor was very frustrated with me because I couldn't give her an analytical breakdown of how I arrived at my results ( which were good- I just did it instinctively using the pattern of the sentence/line and reaching the closest English idiom to get across what the author was trying to convey by the use of certain descriptors or emphatic sentence structure). I suppose it was a bit like showing your workings in maths- if you couldn't do that the exercise was compromised for her, no matter how accurate the translation.  I was also useless at English to Latin, the Cambridge course emphasising accurate translation rather than trying to use a dead language as one would a living one.  Jokes were almost impossible- cultural context is everything in comedy!

[Murieleirum]

I could read @SuzyQ and @sister555's conversation about the little changes in wording and grammar all day long! Such interesting discussions. 

 

4 hours ago, Hydroblade said:

Btw, i was thinking of a little something to encourage us who are studying :D

How about doing weekly challenges? Reading, writing, speaking... To keep us motivated and receive feedback  

 

I've been away from my grammar book for almost a week. I feel like a terrible student What kind of challenges do you have in mind? I think this might be a fun idea. 

[Hydroblade]

1 minute ago, Murieleirum said:

I could read @SuzyQ and @sister555's conversation about the little changes in wording and grammar all day long! Such interesting discussions. 

 

 

I've been away from my grammar book for almost a week. I feel like a terrible student What kind of challenges do you have in mind? I think this might be a fun idea. 

I was thinking like, small excerpts from articles or interviews and write what you got from them. Those who feel brave enough can translate :D. For writing could be setting a topic or a question and you have to write your feelings or the answer to the question in japanese. And for speaking maybe reading aloud some things and posting them to work on pronunciation :D? 

[surimi]

Sounds like a great idea, Hydro! I for one am not sure to what extent I could participate, knowing just the kana (and not even the whole of katakana by heart), but I'd try to do my best. (I finally got hold of another PC that has Win 8 so I can actually see the symbols, yay! Too bad I still use and prefer this old one) I could write in romaji for now, but I already pity whoever would read the 'jewels' I'd create.

Countdown till my beginner course, 3 weeks...

[Murieleirum]

26 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

I was thinking like, small excerpts from articles or interviews and write what you got from them. Those who feel brave enough can translate :D. For writing could be setting a topic or a question and you have to write your feelings or the answer to the question in japanese. And for speaking maybe reading aloud some things and posting them to work on pronunciation :D? 

 

Do we get teachers to correct our creations after?? 

Anyways, I'm all for it!