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58 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

And as I already said to @Henni147, they're not Japanese, so it's different. It's about who the birthday boy/girl is, not who does the initiating. Javi is Spanish, David is Canadian, Yuzu is Japanese. Yuzu being Japanese is why there is a chance being sang to might make him uncomfortable. I'm starting to wonder if I'm really bad at explaining this, because it seems quite simple and logical to me by now :headdesk2:

 

My very personal standpoint is: I don't do anything to others, what I don't like myself. Independent from age, gender, nationality, religion or culture. If I do, I can't complain about backfiring. Yuzu initiated the singing for Javi and David and visibly enjoyed it. So he can't say anything, if Javi or David or anybody sings for him in public next time.

 

However, I understand and respect your point of view as well. We as fans should be supportive and smart at the same time and it's good to talk about such things, before they end in a fiasco.

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1 hour ago, Paskud said:

In what way singing Happy Birthday is different than audience screaming "omedeto" at CiONTU? Or at FaoI when he got People's Honour Award?

I'm pretty sure that if it was FaOI his birthday fell on, no one would object to singing Happy Birthday for him, but that's because FaOI is a show - all the skaters are in the same boat, no one's career is going to be affected if the audience decides to do something over the top.

 

GPF is a competition, and a pretty serious one at that. Not only medals but money is at stake for the participants.  It's incumbent upon everyone attending to act accordingly. 

 

I think that this is a case where 'timing is everything'. If you're going to sing for him, pick wisely as to when you do it. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I'm pretty sure that if it was FaOI his birthday fell on, no one would object to singing Happy Birthday for him, but that's because FaOI is a show - all the skaters are in the same boat, no one's career is going to be affected if the audience decides to do something over the top.

 

GPF is a competition, and a pretty serious one at that. Not only medals but money is at stake for the participants.  It's incumbent upon everyone attending to act accordingly. 

 

I think that this is a case where 'timing is everything'. If you're going to sing for him, pick wisely as to when you do it. 

I agree. I also think that for various reasons the end of practice is probably the best option.

I just don't understand how, overall, singing him Happy Birthday may be a bad idea.

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I think singing Happy Birthday in a relaxed show setting is completely fine, but during a competition is another thing altogether. You have to be respectful to the skaters who are trying to concentrate, whether it be Yuzu or any other competitor. Add to that these competitions are timed to the minute, the song may be short but if it delays  the next competitor or interferes with people concentrating on their scores, skating, or judging then I think the singing could be more disruptive than it would be celebratory (plus, some people just don't care for that type of thing - I certainly don't like to be sung to in public). Like someone said, timing and place is key and I think singing would only be appropriate after the competition has concluded (either victory ceremony when they're doing a victory lap, or gala as I mentioned earlier).

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I saw japanese fans translating the original tweet that started all this. They were mortified at the possibility of singing during Kiss and Cry. If it is sung during Kiss and Cry, we can't hear the commentators analyze Yuzu's jumps and spins in the replay. The commentators themselves have to be focused during the replays to see whether there were any under rotatations. It's harder for commentators all around the world to stay focused during replays if they notice the whole crowd is singing. The HPB sing a long during Kiss and Cry has never been done for any discipline. Not pairs, not ice dance, not ladies - and for good reason. A competition is not a fan party. And this is GPF, the competition Yuzu has been waiting 3 years to compete him. And seeing as how Yuzu wanted his fans to wrap poohs in plastic bags, Yuzu cares more about how his next skater might feel than how Yuzu himself feels. And Yuzu apparently also apologized to the next skater during 2018 ACI because people threw poohs. This year, hardly any fan threw poohs at ACI because of what he did last year. Also remember how Yuzu was busy to pick up poohs during 2018 ACI after he skated? He wanted the ice cleared faster for the next skater. That's how much he cares when there are rules to follow

 

And also remember he told a fan to be quiet with his gestures during 2018 ACI, right after he skated? Because a fan started screaming too loud after he skated. He is very sensitive to how the next skater might be feeling..

 

So please don't do it during kiss and cry. It will make bad press for the japanese media. 

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I don't see a problem if it's done during/after a practice. Despite his cultural heritage, he's been around the international scene long enough to know that people want to celebrate this *for him.* I would think he knows that this might happen during a big competition, he has been feted before at GPF on his birthday, so would see it as the kind gesture it is meant to be, even if he may not love it and might be a bit embarrassed.  And since he's in a sport where you are the centre of attention, and he admittedly loves that, then I"m sure he'd be fine with it, as long as there was no disruption to his fellow competitors. 

 

i remember the crowd sang Happy Birthday to Yagudin at World's in Vancouver in 2001 during a practice... (I think he even sat on the boards and just enjoyed it), and he was really loved in Canada, so it would not be an unusual thing for an affectionate crowd to do this sort of thing.

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10 minutes ago, liv said:

I don't see a problem if it's done during/after a practice. Despite his cultural heritage, he's been around the international scene long enough to know that people want to celebrate this *for him.* I would think he knows that this might happen during a big competition, he has been feted before at GPF on his birthday, so would see it as the kind gesture it is meant to be, even if he may not love it and might be a bit embarrassed.  And since he's in a sport where you are the centre of attention, and he admittedly loves that, then I"m sure he'd be fine with it, as long as there was no disruption to his fellow competitors. 

 

i remember the crowd sang Happy Birthday to Yagudin at World's in Vancouver in 2001 during a practice... (I think he even sat on the boards and just enjoyed it), and he was really loved in Canada, so it would not be an unusual thing for an affectionate crowd to do this sort of thing.

 

 

I don't mind singing it after practice either, but big jp fanyu accounts like blue cosmos just retweeted this....

 

 

Apparently japanese fans didn't like it sung even after practice. 

 

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There is definitely a cultural difference. It's not really about birthdays but about competitions, public settings, and respect for others. I'm in the Japanese Yuzu fandom on twitter. I haven't seen a single favorable opinion. Most of them are like "Oh no, please, please don't! I don't speak English. Someone please talk them out of it!" Some people are aware of this cultural difference and feeling frustrated and helpless saying it's impossible to make other people understand their perspective. But I don't think so because we all care for Yuzu and I've seen sensible cross-cultural discussions here. Differences are all good, but when it comes to pleasing someone, you should respect what they value and appreciate. By the way, what I’m talking about here is Japanese culture in general, but more precisely Yuzu fandom culture. Different skaters have different fan cultures, which mirror their personalities and wishes. This honorable nitpicky culture is precisely his.

 

This is not about what we want. This should be about Yuzu. He already knows and appreciates fans' love and support. There are many other ways to show them. Of course, I can't say for Yuzu how he really feels about the whole thing, but there is a considerable risk of doing something that bothers him at a very very important competition. Do you really want to give him embarrassment and discomfort as a Birthday present?

 

I’m not sure about the timing. I’m pretty easy-going, so I’d be okay as long as it’s not during the competition. But I’m not Yuzu, so I don’t know.

 

Edit: I don’t mean to say Japanese fans know Yuzu better. For the record, there are different attitudes and opinions about many things. They conflict among themselves too. I’m just saying, when all those different people do agree, that’s something.

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16 minutes ago, Lily* said:

There is definitely a cultural difference. It's not really about birthdays but about competitions, public settings, and respect for others. I'm in the Japanese Yuzu fandom on twitter. I haven't seen a single favorable opinion. Most of them are like "Oh no, please, please don't! I don't speak English. Someone please talk them out of it!" Some people are aware of this cultural difference and feeling frustrated and helpless saying it's impossible to make other people understand their perspective. But I don't think so because we all care for Yuzu and I've seen sensible cross-cultural discussions here. Differences are all good, but when it comes to pleasing someone, you should respect what they value and appreciate. By the way, what I’m talking about here is Japanese culture in general, but more precisely Yuzu fandom culture. Different skaters have different fan cultures, which mirror their personalities and wishes. This honorable nitpicky culture is precisely his.

 

This is not about what we want. This should be about Yuzu. He already knows and appreciates fans' love and support. There are many other ways to show them. Of course, I can't say for Yuzu how he really feels about the whole thing, but there is a considerable risk of doing something that bothers him at a very very important competition. Do you really want to give him embarrassment and discomfort as a Birthday present?

 

I’m not sure about the timing. I’m pretty easy-going, so I’d be okay as long as it’s not during the competition. But I’m not Yuzu, so I don’t know.

 

 

 

I've seen many cases where Japanese fanyus dislike the behavior of the foreign fanyu base. Everything from criticizing how they ship yuzu with javi when javi already was dating ando and even now that he has a spanish girlfriend, to how russian fans shipped him with zhenya, to the HPB song, to how not to behave during ACI, to not give flower crowns to yuzu during victory ceremony, to critcising johnny weir for sharing a pic with Yuzu in a flower crown, to this, to that.

 

 

It did gave me a sense of feeling that some japanese fans do feel a sense of entitlement to Yuzu. And yes he is their skater. It makes sense they know him best, because they have no language barrier. But the policing of Fanyus mostly come from the japanese fandom. I've seen many japanese fanyus clash with the english fandom because of this policing over time. And if there is one thing I learnt, is that the Japanese fandom are more sensitive, careful and cautious. It does seem overly done from a foreigner's perspective, but then again, Yuzu IS japanese, so what the majority of the japanese fandom believes who Yuzu is and what he likes and dislikes is probably more closer to the reality of who Yuzu is than what the foreign fandom thinks. 

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 Regarding the birthday song issue, I think it's a tempest in a teapot, but the best thing is to ask Yuzu what he thinks.

 

Relying on cultural generalizations and the assumed opinion of Japanese fandom does not mean that Yuzu feels the same way. He is one-of-a-kind, after all.

 

Edit:

 

Speaking of Japanese cultural generalizations, there is that well-known phrase that you don't want to be the nail that sticks out, otherwise you get smacked. Well, Yuzu sticks out a mile especially with that long neck of his.

 

As a another generalization, Japanese people tend to conform and avoid being the centre of attention. Well, being the centre of attention was the very reason why Yuzu loved figure skating.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Geo1 said:

 Regarding the birthday song issue, I think it's a tempest in a teapot, but the best thing is to ask Yuzu what he thinks.

 

Relying on cultural generalizations and the assumed opinion of Japanese fandom does not mean that Yuzu feels the same way. He is one-of-a-kind, after all.

 

Edit:

 

Speaking of Japanese cultural generalizations, there is that well-known phrase that you don't want to be the nail that sticks out, otherwise you get smacked. Well, Yuzu sticks out a mile especially with that long neck of his.

 

As a another generalization, Japanese people tend to conform and avoid being the centre of attention. Well, being the centre of attention was the very reason why Yuzu loved figure skating.

 

 

 

 

The issue of HPB song is not about standing out. It's about the possibility of distracting the next skater warming up during kiss and cry.

 

Yuzu wants to stand out but is equally sensitive to how the next skater feels. 

Their discomfort is the same as his discomfort. 

 

That's why he always makes gestures to the crowd to calm down for the next skater during kiss and cry. He did this for Nam at Skate Canada after his free skate. 

 

And Yuzu is the type of japanese that is more closer with Oda Nobunari (such as Oda revealing on TV they go out privately to eat meals together during Ice Show season. Oda also revealed Yuzu and Kanako are in a group chat on Line. He's also revealed they talk in private and reveal what type of girls they like etc. So those 2 skaters keep in touch with Yuzu privately and seem close in private)

 

But Yuzu is not privately close to Javi (Javi did reveal in an interview he repeatedly invited Yuzu out but never even had a meal with him outside. You can find Javi's interview about this during post Sochi ~ PC olympics. It was an interview about how Javi revealed he's never been to Yuzu's apartment and that Yuzu doesn't hang out in Toronto).

 

It seems Yuzu feels more privately intimate, close with his Japanese skaters moreso than his foreign training mates. Because when you are close with someone, you go out and eat meals with your friends, or contact each other in private and reveal little details about what you like etc. 

The fact that Yuzu does this with Japanese skaters and not with his foreign training mates, does seem to hint that he is more comfortable and intimate with Japanese people and their culture. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

And Yuzu apparently also apologized to the next skater during 2018 ACI because people threw poohs. This year, hardly any fan threw poohs at ACI because of what he did last year. Also remember how Yuzu was busy to pick up poohs during 2018 ACI after he skated?

Just to point out something here: throwing gifts on the ice has been not allowed at ACI in any year, the only reason it happened in 2018 is because when one fan did it for another skater (not Yuzu), the organizers didn't say anything, so it looked like it would be okay to do it for other skaters too, with predictable results. 

 

But yes, it would be bad if any fan action caused problems for Yuzu, hence why I suggested people consider their actions carefully during a competition. 

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2 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

I don't mind singing it after practice either, but big jp fanyu accounts like blue cosmos just retweeted this....

 

 

Apparently japanese fans didn't like it sung even after practice. 

 

Ok, whoa. It's one thing to worry about whether Yuzu will like it. It's completely another kettle of fish to worry about whether the Japanese fans will like it. They're not the only fans Yuzu has. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Ok, whoa. It's one thing to worry about whether Yuzu will like it. It's completely another kettle of fish to worry about whether the Japanese fans will like it. They're not the only fans Yuzu has. 

 

 

 

 

I'm only refering to blue cosmos because she is a trusted fanyu among the jp twitter. Regarding what they like or not, I wrote before that it makes sense they know him better because there is no language and cultural barrier between them and Yuzu. Even in interviews, things get lost in translation...

 

 

Their opinions count because they've know Yuzu for longer, without any language and cultural misunderstanding between them. 

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