General Yuzuru Chat

[rockstaryuzu]

18 minutes ago, LourdesMoon said:

He also implies Nathan is very musical, he might even think he's more musical than Yuzu. 

All I know is, I watch Yuzu programs I've never seen before with the sound off, I can still tell what the music is like by how Yuzu moves. 

[Vulnavia]

32 minutes ago, LourdesMoon said:

 

I unfortunately heard what he said and he is not overly enthusiastic about Nathan but he is probably trying not to showcase his bias...regardless he says things like 'Nathan has transitions out of his jumps' (because one of the guys questioned his lack of transitions so he said Nathan makes them after he lands......and I was like, where?) 

 

It really is like The Emperor's New Clothes at this point. First we had Raf saying that Nathan doesn't do any transitions, but it's okay because judges are too incompetent to tell the difference anyway. Now we've graduated to Inman straight up claiming to see transitions that aren't actually there. It reminds me of a comment I saw from a Nathan fan recently who was trying to argue that Nathan doing empty programs with a million crossovers was an artistic choice and that "his crossovers are part of his artistry". Like the skating version of a minimalist painter, I guess 

[4Nessie]

3 hours ago, Vulnavia said:

It reminds me of a comment I saw from a Nathan fan recently who was trying to argue that Nathan doing empty programs with a million crossovers was an artistic choice and that "his crossovers are part of his artistry". Like the skating version of a minimalist painter, I guess 

 

Oi...

[4Nessie]

3 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I can't imagine how anyone could possibly consider Taiko drums and a flute "bland by Western standards". Taiko is the very antithesis of bland - it's supposed to be waking a god for crying out loud! Wow. Glad I missed that interview.

 

Yep, and THAT is why a lot of Western skaters skate to asian music... because it's bland. Sure. Tell that to uncle Brez (his Taiko drums were gorgeous!) and Verner for example.

[Lambari]

9 hours ago, LourdesMoon said:

 

I unfortunately heard what he said and he is not overly enthusiastic about Nathan but he is probably trying not to showcase his bias...regardless he says things like 'Nathan has transitions out of his jumps' (because one of the guys questioned his lack of transitions so he said Nathan makes them after he lands......and I was like, where?) or that 'Vincent is more artistic than people realize' (he ranks Vincent higher than Kolyada from what I remember) and implies that Nathan IS superior to Yuzu because Yuzu has really bad posture in his opinion. He really drives that point home, to the point where he says his PCS scores/opinions rely almost solely on posture and musicality. He also implies Nathan is very musical, he might even think he's more musical than Yuzu. 

 

Some skating enthusiasts do love to make it seem as if Yuzuru's torso is flat out paralel to the ice, don't they? I guess he could kiss the ice like Haru Yo Koi for every program even without a hydroblade, he just doesn't out of spite!   

 

Yuzuru will probably never have the perfect posture.  But some skating fans feel the need to almost turn this affirmative into a hyperbole. Yuzuru also improved quite a lot in this department since his early days, but there's a certain resistance to acknowledge that from these fans.  Almost like a desperate cry  "Don't you see it? I absolutely hate his weakness so don't you dare be a fan of his qualities!"       I understand if posture is something that a person priorize when choosing the skaters that they would rewatch because this would be a personal preference. However demanding for others to use this as a sole feature  to categorize artistry, or rather trying to negate the artistry that others see in a skater only because of it just feels so limiting.     Yuzuru excels in so many facets of artistry. For me he's a very emotionally charged skater and proficient in his commitment to his programs, also inherently musical. Interestingly enough his performances are almost theatrical, it already starts from the moment he's introduced.  Some  love to call these qualities as "flare",  sometimes as a backhanded compliment, as if it was a lesser artistry, almost 'accidental artistry'.  As if something that comes naturally can't have the same value as the rehearsed qualities  because it isn't studied artistry therefore it doesn't come from a deeper understanding.  Which I find even funnier when it comes to Yuzuru because even though he has this performance quality that comes naturally to him, he does seem very commited to study the artistry of his programs by actively choosing his music, sometimes even cutting the song by himself and by the way he describes them at interviews they almost feel like personal journeys. I think this perception comes from such a pretentious place coupled with ignorance of Yuzuru's thought process.  I believe the most well versed are the ones that can acknowledge the existence of different types of art and their merits.   What would be the point of categorizing modern ballet, jazz, folk dance etc within the limits of traditional ballet? It does a disservice to all of them.

 

For example, Patrick Chan was/is a skater with great posture and basic positions. Patrick was very commited to his vision of artistry,  worked with a dance coach for a considerable time, loved to study the expressiveness of Ice Dancers...  Despite all of this, his artistry was always fervently debated.  Some would say that he's incredibly artistic, mostly those who priorize the features where he excels, others would just say that there's much to be desired in his interpretation and that he leaves them completely cold. Why?  Was Patrick musical? I think yes. But I never felt that he inherently was. The thought process behind it was apparent to me during his performances as a rehearsed quality.  Or maybe he just... lacked the "flare"?   I always appreciated Patrick's skating though.

 

I saw some time ago someone saying how maybe the rejection towards Yuzuru from the more traditionally inclined FS fans is because he is such an outlier compared to the past men's champions and I agree with this.  If you try to categorize him as a  showy performer, a lyrical skater or a dramatic "masculine" type  you just can't. He doesn't fit perfectly in neither of those. He's rather unique.   But of course I'm biased. I believe I'm in a safe place though.  

 

TL,DR I wish people would just admit that they prefer a particular style and let it go.  

[Yuzu_GOAT]

54 minutes ago, Lambari said:

 

Some skating enthusiasts do love to make it seem as if Yuzuru's torso is flat out paralel to the ice, don't they? I guess he could kiss the ice like Haru Yo Koi for every program even without a hydroblade, he just doesn't out of spite!   

 

Yuzuru will probably never have the perfect posture.  But some skating fans feel the need to almost turn this affirmative into a hyperbole. Yuzuru also improved quite a lot in this department since his early days, but there's a certain resistance to acknowledge that from these fans.  Almost like a desperate cry  "Don't you see it? I absolutely hate his weakness so don't you dare be a fan of his qualities!"       I understand if posture is something that a person priorize when choosing the skaters that they would rewatch because this would be a personal preference. However demanding for others to use this as a sole feature  to categorize artistry, or rather trying to negate the artistry that others see in a skater only because of it just feels so limiting.     Yuzuru excels in so many facets of artistry. For me he's a very emotionally charged skater and proficient in his commitment to his programs, also inherently musical. Interestingly enough his performances are almost theatrical, it already starts from the moment he's introduced.  Some  love to call these qualities as "flare",  sometimes as a backhanded compliment, as if it was a lesser artistry, almost 'accidental artistry'.  As if something that comes naturally can't have the same value as the rehearsed qualities  because it isn't studied artistry therefore it doesn't come from a deeper understanding.  Which I find even funnier when it comes to Yuzuru because even though he has this performance quality that comes naturally to him, he does seem very commited to study the artistry of his programs by actively choosing his music, sometimes even cutting the song by himself and by the way he describes them at interviews they almost feel like personal journeys. I think this perception comes from such a pretentious place coupled with ignorance of Yuzuru's thought process.  I believe the most well versed are the ones that can acknowledge the existence of different types of art and their merits.   What would be the point of categorizing modern ballet, jazz, folk dance etc within the limits of traditional ballet? It does a disservice to all of them.

 

For example, Patrick Chan was/is a skater with great posture and basic positions. Patrick was very commited to his vision of artistry,  worked with a dance coach for a considerable time, loved to study the expressiveness of Ice Dancers...  Despite all of this, his artistry was always fervently debated.  Some would say that he's incredibly artistic, mostly those who priorize the features where he excels, others would just say that there's much to be desired in his interpretation and that he leaves them completely cold. Why?  Was Patrick musical? I think yes. But I never felt that he inherently was. The thought process behind it was apparent to me during his performances as a rehearsed quaity.  Or maybe he just... lacked the "flare"?   I always appreciated Patrick's skating though.

 

I saw some time ago someone saying how maybe the rejection towards Yuzuru from the more traditionally inclined FS fans is because he is such an outlier compared to the past men's champions and I agree with this.  If you try to categorize him as a  showy performer, a lyrical skater or a dramatic "masculine" type  you just can't. He doesn't fit perfectly in neither of those. He's rather unique.   But of course I'm biased. I believe I'm in a safe place though.  

 

TL,DR I wish people would just admit that they prefer a particular style and let it go.  

17

I know, right! Yuzu just has this ethereal quality on the ice that no one else has ever and will ever possess. I can't even describe it in words, as there is nothing to liken it to, it's just so essentially...... him. And that is why so many people love him.

[rockstaryuzu]

58 minutes ago, Lambari said:

TL,DR I wish people would just admit that they prefer a particular style and let it go.  

It boils down to the idea that there's no accounting for taste. I have a friend who likes figure skating almost as much as I do,  and she prefers Javi over Yuzu because she thinks he moves better. Meanwhile, in my eyes, Javi is beautiful but a little stiff. 

 

Which is all fine and dandy unless you're the judge scoring skaters by what are supposed to be objective standards. For a judge to flat out admit to an interviewer, even one as unprofessional as T*L, that his modus operandi is to be as subjective and biased as possible, is a scandal. Were I the ISU, I'd be deeply concerned and would probably remove the guy from judging altogether. 

[Yuzu_GOAT]

19 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

It boils down to the idea that there's no accounting for taste. I have a friend who likes figure skating almost as much as I do,  and she prefers Javi over Yuzu because she thinks he moves better. Meanwhile, in my eyes, Javi is beautiful but a little stiff. 

 

Which is all fine and dandy unless you're the judge scoring skaters by what are supposed to be objective standards. For a judge to flat out admit to an interviewer, even one as unprofessional as T*L, that his modus operandi is to be as subjective and biased as possible, is a scandal. Were I the ISU, I'd be deeply concerned and would probably remove the guy from judging altogether. 

I know right, it's appalling! I

[twitwi]

3 hours ago, LourdesMoon said:

 

I unfortunately heard what he said and he is not overly enthusiastic about Nathan but he is probably trying not to showcase his bias...regardless he says things like 'Nathan has transitions out of his jumps' (because one of the guys questioned his lack of transitions so he said Nathan makes them after he lands......and I was like, where?) or that 'Vincent is more artistic than people realize' (he ranks Vincent higher than Kolyada from what I remember) and implies that Nathan IS superior to Yuzu because Yuzu has really bad posture in his opinion. He really drives that point home, to the point where he says his PCS scores/opinions rely almost solely on posture and musicality. He also implies Nathan is very musical, he might even think he's more musical than Yuzu. 

okay,  i just don't understand, regarding the posture, i think yuzu's every movement in the competition are always shot by hundreds of cameras from almost all angles, and we they are post without editing right after the match,  everyone with eyes can see how his posture is, and also photographers are always expressing their admiration for this, and saying they can't miss a single movement of him and his bodyline, his movement inspired them to shoot because of the beauty he presents.

 

and about other guys especially the one i don't want to name here, did you see the pictures from canon interview yesterday?  better posture? really need the  definition of  posture  here.

[eagle]

5 hours ago, AkaneYamashina said:

I'm very curious to this man's definition of "bland music by Western standards." Does he want a fanfare? An ice musical perhaps---where Yuzu would sing while he skates?

 

*eye twitch*  

 

In regards to Joe Inman interview on TSL, I dont recall him saying its bland by 'western standards'.

 

If I recall correctly, Inman said Yuzuru's choice of music is rather monotonous. That some dont have rise & fall to make it exciting. I think this type of music refers to Hope & Legacy which is soft, quieter music, abstract theme.

 

He did comment Seimei (which he calls as Samurai program) as different from bland/monotone. 

Inman didnt like Yuzu's 'carriage'(posture), that he doesnt point his toes. Lol. As example of who among the men's carriage Inman likes is Koldyada whose back is always straight.

Hmm, and he loved Jason Brown's SP. Jason should also be on his list of men with good posture.

 

The comment on Yuzu's arms just hanging by his side and looking down was by Dave Lease.

 

I forgot whether or not it was Inman who mentioned abt Yuzu's 1st min as empty. Jonathan & Dave said it happens with most if not all the men with the new 4 min rule. 

As a whole, TSL this time was pro Nathan, critic Yuzuru somewhat. They are not purely nationalistic though, Dave Lease still dont like Vincent Zhou & thinks Vincent should not have been on the podium.

 

 

[WinForPooh]

5 minutes ago, twitwi said:

okay,  i just don't understand, regarding the posture, i think yuzu's every movement in the competition are always shot by hundreds of cameras from almost all angles, and we they are post without editing right after the match,  everyone with eyes can see how his posture is, and also photographers are always expressing their admiration for this, and saying they can't miss a single movement of him and his bodyline, his movement inspired them to shoot because of the beauty he presents.

 

and about other guys especially the one i don't want to name here, did you see the pictures from canon interview yesterday?  better posture? really need the  definition of  posture  here.

 

I do love Yuzu's lines, but they are different from what's taught under the so-called classical training. Which I can also appreciate very much, Jason has them! Yuzu's posture became dramatically better when his stamina increased and he learnt to control some of that wildness that's part of what makes him very special. It's not to some people's tastes and that's fine, but to say he has bad lines would be nonsense. Also he has started to really make an effort to point his damn toes, look at the tiny spiral in Origin! 

[4Nessie]

1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

 

I do love Yuzu's lines, but they are different from what's taught under the so-called classical training. Which I can also appreciate very much, Jason has them! Yuzu's posture became dramatically better when his stamina increased and he learnt to control some of that wildness that's part of what makes him very special. It's not to some people's tastes and that's fine, but to say he has bad lines would be nonsense. Also he has started to really make an effort to point his damn toes, look at the tiny spiral in Origin! 

OT:

Just because I am relatively new to all that technical speech... what does this often mentioned "pointing the toes" mean?  

[WinForPooh]

1 hour ago, 4Nessie said:

OT:

Just because I am relatively new to all that technical speech... what does this often mentioned "pointing the toes" mean?  

 

Yeah I had that moment, too, I didn't understand how you could do it wearing skating boots. I don't want to start anything but if you wanna see exactly what it means, look at spirals by Yuna Kim and Sasha Cohen. Many people dislike Yuna because she didn't point her toes, and Sasha is still loved for how she did. Basically holding the line from hip to the tip of the toe, instead of holding it till the ankle and then letting the foot kind of just be there. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

You can see the difference in how their feet look different, that's the toe pointing everybody keeps going on Yuzu about.

 

 

As you can see, he has improved. 

 

[WinForPooh]

It does feel kind of nitpicky sometimes because men don't actually do many of the moves where pointy toe is really evident - like spirals, obviously, and layback spins. 

[LourdesMoon]

2 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

It does feel kind of nitpicky sometimes because men don't actually do many of the moves where pointy toe is really evident - like spirals, obviously, and layback spins. 

 

When they are evaluating Yuzu, it definitely feels nitpicky...it's like finding a cobweb on the Sistine Chapel and saying that it's ruining the aesthetic or ignoring the brilliance of the Mona Lisa just because it's small and can't be touched up properly like other historical paintings. Who the hell cares if he "looks down," I barely notice this, and I'm pretty sure no one notices and cares when he's doing a billion other nuances and beautiful moves on the ice. I also don't understand the comments in their video (TSL) about his carriage...to me he's fluid, flexible and emotive...that's unique. If you want everyone to have the same style then why even have a competition?