General Yuzuru Chat

[quadaxelwin]

16 minutes ago, Lily* said:

There is definitely a cultural difference. It's not really about birthdays but about competitions, public settings, and respect for others. I'm in the Japanese Yuzu fandom on twitter. I haven't seen a single favorable opinion. Most of them are like "Oh no, please, please don't! I don't speak English. Someone please talk them out of it!" Some people are aware of this cultural difference and feeling frustrated and helpless saying it's impossible to make other people understand their perspective. But I don't think so because we all care for Yuzu and I've seen sensible cross-cultural discussions here. Differences are all good, but when it comes to pleasing someone, you should respect what they value and appreciate. By the way, what I’m talking about here is Japanese culture in general, but more precisely Yuzu fandom culture. Different skaters have different fan cultures, which mirror their personalities and wishes. This honorable nitpicky culture is precisely his.

 

This is not about what we want. This should be about Yuzu. He already knows and appreciates fans' love and support. There are many other ways to show them. Of course, I can't say for Yuzu how he really feels about the whole thing, but there is a considerable risk of doing something that bothers him at a very very important competition. Do you really want to give him embarrassment and discomfort as a Birthday present?

 

I’m not sure about the timing. I’m pretty easy-going, so I’d be okay as long as it’s not during the competition. But I’m not Yuzu, so I don’t know.

 

 

 

I've seen many cases where Japanese fanyus dislike the behavior of the foreign fanyu base. Everything from criticizing how they ship yuzu with javi when javi already was dating ando and even now that he has a spanish girlfriend, to how russian fans shipped him with zhenya, to the HPB song, to how not to behave during ACI, to not give flower crowns to yuzu during victory ceremony, to critcising johnny weir for sharing a pic with Yuzu in a flower crown, to this, to that.

 

 

It did gave me a sense of feeling that some japanese fans do feel a sense of entitlement to Yuzu. And yes he is their skater. It makes sense they know him best, because they have no language barrier. But the policing of Fanyus mostly come from the japanese fandom. I've seen many japanese fanyus clash with the english fandom because of this policing over time. And if there is one thing I learnt, is that the Japanese fandom are more sensitive, careful and cautious. It does seem overly done from a foreigner's perspective, but then again, Yuzu IS japanese, so what the majority of the japanese fandom believes who Yuzu is and what he likes and dislikes is probably more closer to the reality of who Yuzu is than what the foreign fandom thinks. 

[Geo1]

 Regarding the birthday song issue, I think it's a tempest in a teapot, but the best thing is to ask Yuzu what he thinks.

 

Relying on cultural generalizations and the assumed opinion of Japanese fandom does not mean that Yuzu feels the same way. He is one-of-a-kind, after all.

 

Edit:

 

Speaking of Japanese cultural generalizations, there is that well-known phrase that you don't want to be the nail that sticks out, otherwise you get smacked. Well, Yuzu sticks out a mile especially with that long neck of his.

 

As a another generalization, Japanese people tend to conform and avoid being the centre of attention. Well, being the centre of attention was the very reason why Yuzu loved figure skating.

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU

 

 

[quadaxelwin]

40 minutes ago, Geo1 said:

 Regarding the birthday song issue, I think it's a tempest in a teapot, but the best thing is to ask Yuzu what he thinks.

 

Relying on cultural generalizations and the assumed opinion of Japanese fandom does not mean that Yuzu feels the same way. He is one-of-a-kind, after all.

 

Edit:

 

Speaking of Japanese cultural generalizations, there is that well-known phrase that you don't want to be the nail that sticks out, otherwise you get smacked. Well, Yuzu sticks out a mile especially with that long neck of his.

 

As a another generalization, Japanese people tend to conform and avoid being the centre of attention. Well, being the centre of attention was the very reason why Yuzu loved figure skating.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU

 

 

 

 

The issue of HPB song is not about standing out. It's about the possibility of distracting the next skater warming up during kiss and cry.

 

Yuzu wants to stand out but is equally sensitive to how the next skater feels. 

Their discomfort is the same as his discomfort. 

 

That's why he always makes gestures to the crowd to calm down for the next skater during kiss and cry. He did this for Nam at Skate Canada after his free skate. 

 

And Yuzu is the type of japanese that is more closer with Oda Nobunari (such as Oda revealing on TV they go out privately to eat meals together during Ice Show season. Oda also revealed Yuzu and Kanako are in a group chat on Line. He's also revealed they talk in private and reveal what type of girls they like etc. So those 2 skaters keep in touch with Yuzu privately and seem close in private)

 

But Yuzu is not privately close to Javi (Javi did reveal in an interview he repeatedly invited Yuzu out but never even had a meal with him outside. You can find Javi's interview about this during post Sochi ~ PC olympics. It was an interview about how Javi revealed he's never been to Yuzu's apartment and that Yuzu doesn't hang out in Toronto).

 

It seems Yuzu feels more privately intimate, close with his Japanese skaters moreso than his foreign training mates. Because when you are close with someone, you go out and eat meals with your friends, or contact each other in private and reveal little details about what you like etc. 

The fact that Yuzu does this with Japanese skaters and not with his foreign training mates, does seem to hint that he is more comfortable and intimate with Japanese people and their culture. 

 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

And Yuzu apparently also apologized to the next skater during 2018 ACI because people threw poohs. This year, hardly any fan threw poohs at ACI because of what he did last year. Also remember how Yuzu was busy to pick up poohs during 2018 ACI after he skated?

Just to point out something here: throwing gifts on the ice has been not allowed at ACI in any year, the only reason it happened in 2018 is because when one fan did it for another skater (not Yuzu), the organizers didn't say anything, so it looked like it would be okay to do it for other skaters too, with predictable results. 

 

But yes, it would be bad if any fan action caused problems for Yuzu, hence why I suggested people consider their actions carefully during a competition. 

[SparkleSalad]

“Two time OGM Yuzuru Hanyu spontaneously combusts during a 10 second rendition of Happy Birthday after practice.

 

“The strongest mind in sports history was no match for the lighthearted tradition of mild embarrassment that befalls each of us once a year.” 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

I don't mind singing it after practice either, but big jp fanyu accounts like blue cosmos just retweeted this....

 

 

Apparently japanese fans didn't like it sung even after practice. 

 

Ok, whoa. It's one thing to worry about whether Yuzu will like it. It's completely another kettle of fish to worry about whether the Japanese fans will like it. They're not the only fans Yuzu has. 

 

 

[quadaxelwin]

2 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Ok, whoa. It's one thing to worry about whether Yuzu will like it. It's completely another kettle of fish to worry about whether the Japanese fans will like it. They're not the only fans Yuzu has. 

 

 

 

 

I'm only refering to blue cosmos because she is a trusted fanyu among the jp twitter. Regarding what they like or not, I wrote before that it makes sense they know him better because there is no language and cultural barrier between them and Yuzu. Even in interviews, things get lost in translation...

 

 

Their opinions count because they've know Yuzu for longer, without any language and cultural misunderstanding between them. 

[rockstaryuzu]

17 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

Their opinions count because they've know Yuzu for longer, without any language and cultural misunderstanding between them. 

They're from the same culture as him, so the information they provide is useful sometimes. But it's impossible for every single foreign fan of Yuzu's to regulate their actions based on what the Japanese fans might or might not think is appropriate. In most cases it's impossible for foreign fans to even know what a Japanese fan might consider appropriate. And most people in the Japanese fandom haven't met Yuzu personally anymore than the rest of us have, so they are also guessing what he might like or not like based on publicly available information and shared culture. 

 

The best argument I've heard against singing Happy Birthday for Yuzu is the public vs private one ; i.e. that he might consider his birthday a private matter that doesn't really have any place in his figure skating competitive life. But as @Geo1 has said, we can't know that unless we ask Yuzu directly, which none of us have any way to do. 

 

You all realize this argument may end up being completely moot, given that Yuzu has plenty of friends and acquaintances among the skaters themselves who'd be more than willing to sing Happy Birthday to him or otherwise celebrate. And most of those folks don't have the benefit of reading the fan discussions so will go ahead and do whatever they want to. 

 

Anyway, as I've said before, my personal opinion is that a banner or group of people holding up the letters spelling 'Happy Birthday' is probably far more appropriate and far less likely to cause trouble, but as I'm not going to GPF my opinion counts for little. 

 

 

 

 

[WinForPooh]

17 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

I'm only refering to blue cosmos because she is a trusted fanyu among the jp twitter. Regarding what they like or not, I wrote before that it makes sense they know him better because there is no language and cultural barrier between them and Yuzu. Even in interviews, things get lost in translation...

 

 

Their opinions count because they've know Yuzu for longer, without any language and cultural misunderstanding between them. 

 

Even so, that tweet is reading his expression and body language, not anything Yuzu has ever said in Japanese about it, so I don't think their interpretation has more weight than anybody else's. Japanese fans don't know who Yuzu is as a person any better than anybody else who has followed him does.

 

After all, don't people keep saying how his way of expressing himself honestly is almost culturally non-Japanese? When fans have done something he doesn't like, he has said it. Like anything that disturbs the next skater warming up, cheering his jumps loudly when others have their runthrough - things like that. If fans singing him happy birthday bothered him, I guess he'd have said something about it.

[quadaxelwin]

3 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

They're from the same culture as him, so the information they provide is useful sometimes. But it's impossible for every single foreign fan of Yuzu's to regulate their actions based on what the Japanese fans might or might not think is appropriate. In most cases it's impossible for foreign fans to even know what a Japanese fan might consider appropriate. And most people in the Japanese fandom haven't met Yuzu personally anymore than the rest of us have, so they are also guessing what he might like or not like based on publicly available information and shared culture. 

 

The best argument I've heard against singing Happy Birthday for Yuzu is the public vs private one ; i.e. that he might consider his birthday a private matter that doesn't really have any place in his figure skating competitive life. But as @Geo1 has said, we can't know that unless we ask Yuzu directly, which none of us have any way to do. 

 

You all realize this argument may end up being completely moot, given that Yuzu has plenty of friends and acquaintances among the skaters themselves who'd be more than willing to sing Happy Birthday to him or otherwise celebrate. And most of those folks don't have the benefit of reading the fan discussions so will go ahead and do whatever they want to. 

 

Anyway, as I've said before, my personal opinion is that a banner or group of people holding up the letters spelling 'Happy Birthday' is probably far more appropriate and far less likely to cause trouble, but as I'm not going to GPF my opinion counts for little. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. It's what I've been trying to say. Their opinions "count" as in, let's listen to them because they understand Yuzu without any translation. But we can't regulate everything to what every JP fan says. We can listen attentively to what they say collectively though. 

 

As for the banner, I agree, a birthday banner will be less disruptive than a birthday song. 

[quadaxelwin]

Just now, WinForPooh said:

 

Even so, that tweet is reading his expression and body language, not anything Yuzu has ever said in Japanese about it, so I don't think their interpretation has more weight than anybody else's. Japanese fans don't know who Yuzu is as a person any better than anybody else who has followed him does.

 

After all, don't people keep saying how his way of expressing himself honestly is almost culturally non-Japanese? When fans have done something he doesn't like, he has said it. Like anything that disturbs the next skater warming up, cheering his jumps loudly when others have their runthrough - things like that. If fans singing him happy birthday bothered him, I guess he'd have said something about it.

 

I think he's more Japanese than he is not. Yes, he is outspoken, but remember how he always openly praises how much he loves Japan and their culture so much and that he is proud to be Japanese etc. He also acts very Japanese on camera. Also I heard being outspoken is the new generation kind of thing, more than the Japanese culture thing. The newer younger kids are more outspoken, open. 

[WinForPooh]

16 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

I think he's more Japanese than he is not. Yes, he is outspoken, but remember how he always openly praises how much he loves Japan and their culture so much and that he is proud to be Japanese etc. He also acts very Japanese on camera. Also I heard being outspoken is the new generation kind of thing, more than the Japanese culture thing. The newer younger kids are more outspoken, open. 

 

In which case, considering it happened at the last GPF where he attended, we can say he'd be outspoken enough to mention he would rather nobody referred to his birthday if that's what he preferred. I don't think even Japanese fans can claim to read his mind or know what he wants, or say what he was thinking from a clip of him not showing any visible discomfort to anybody else's eyes.

 

We know from his words that he would be mortified if anybody did it when other skaters were on the ice and practicing or training or warming up. After his practice group, however, to say he wouldn't want it and would be uncomfortable with it is something nobody can say except for him or people who know him personally. As long as nobody in that particular circle says anything of the sort, considering he led JAvi's happy birthday song at CiONTU, I'm gonna go with 'he probably won't think it's a big deal at all', since there's never been ANY indication that Yuzu dislikes being wished happy birthday by fans.

 

Also Japanese fans as a whole don't always know what he wants. Remember how so many of them were up in arms about fanart, and Yuzu came out and said he loves seeing his own fanart and then they settled down? They don't always get it right, either. If something is an actual cultural taboo, then obviously we should listen. This, however, doesn't sound like that at all. This sounds very much like some people deciding what he'd like and what would be appropriate.

 

 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

Also I heard being outspoken is the new generation kind of thing, more than the Japanese culture thing. The newer younger kids are more outspoken, open. 

Yes, and I find this very interesting indeed. To move the topic away from Yuzu a little bit, I think in the next 20 years Japan itself is going to undergo a huge but subtle cultural shift because of things like this. 

 

[quadaxelwin]

26 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

 

In which case, considering it happened at the last GPF where he attended, we can say he'd be outspoken enough to mention he would rather nobody referred to his birthday if that's what he preferred. I don't think even Japanese fans can claim to read his mind or know what he wants, or say what he was thinking from a clip of him not showing any visible discomfort to anybody else's eyes.

 

We know from his words that he would be mortified if anybody did it when other skaters were on the ice and practicing or training or warming up. After his practice group, however, to say he wouldn't want it and would be uncomfortable with it is something nobody can say except for him or people who know him personally. As long as nobody in that particular circle says anything of the sort, considering he led JAvi's happy birthday song at CiONTU, I'm gonna go with 'he probably won't think it's a big deal at all', since there's never been ANY indication that Yuzu dislikes being wished happy birthday by fans.

 

Also Japanese fans as a whole don't always know what he wants. Remember how so many of them were up in arms about fanart, and Yuzu came out and said he loves seeing his own fanart and then they settled down? They don't always get it right, either. If something is an actual cultural taboo, then obviously we should listen. This, however, doesn't sound like that at all. This sounds very much like some people deciding what he'd like and what would be appropriate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah he does say things but sometimes he doesn't.

When his management asked to delete the photo with Johnny Weir with the flower crown, Jp fans were angry at Weir for making an instagram post about it, and also angry at english twitter for making a big deal out of it. They prefer things to remain quiet because they just trust Yuzu's decisions without questioning the reason why he had to delete the photo. Whatever the reason was, Yuzu wanted the photo deleted. For Jp fans, the reason doesn't matter as long as it is what Yuzu wants. 

 

Off the topic, I agree it should be done after practice if it is a song, and not during Kiss and Cry. Not during live competition broadcast hours. 

[CaroSkate]

It has been an interesting discussion on cultural differences. I am not Japanese myself but I travel there often. It seems to me that Japanese would try their best to not bother/cause any discomfort to other people. Yuzu appears to conform to this based on how he have been acting in press conferences and competitions for all these years. Therefore I hope the birthday celebration could be considerate to other skaters.

 

Of course I am not Japanese and please correct me if I am wrong