General Yuzuru Chat

[KatjaThera]

On 5/13/2018 at 3:52 AM, beki said:

I’m lucky enough to be going on vacation to Japan soon (not FAOI or Sendai though), and I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for the best places in Tokyo to buy Yuzu-related things. My dream would be a Ciontu shirt, but I don’t know if they’re available outside the shows themselves.

 

Thank you very much in advance!

Spoiler

To add to what @sweetwater said, if traveling to other places, I think Seimei Shrine in Kyoto and Yuzuruha Shrine in Kobe are also nice places to visit as a Yuzu fan. You can see his emas and write your own, there.

 

As for Ice Rink Sendai, I've been there twice and their selection of goods is quite limited. I never found Irene gloves or other Irene goods physically there. But I did go after Yuzu-centric events in Sendai, so it's possible they sold out and normally they do have them. But the place is really great to see as a Yuzu fan. I believe the messages should still be up and while I don't know about the current exhibition, the gallery they have is nice already. (I got pretty teary looking at the Yuzu pictures and trophies, while the new Pandalion song played along).

 

I don't know if this is your first time in Japan, but depending on how long you're staying and what your plans are, if you travel outside of Tokyo, you might consider getting a JR Pass. It's really awesome if you want to go to many places, but pretty much a waste of money if you don't. (For example, for my trip for the Parade, I got a JR East Tohoku Pass, for aprox. 20,000yen, which gave me 5 days of free trips on all JR East lines, plus Tohoku. I used it for 3 day trips to Sendai, 1 to Kitakami to see cherry blossoms and 1 to Enoshima - though also had to pay the local Odakyu train there, extra. But it was only 300yen or so, so it was worth it.) Given that a shinkansen ticket to Sendai is about 10,000 yen, it was more than worth it. A full Japan pass is 35,000 I think, which again, is worth it if you take at least 2-3 round trips by shinkansen, but not so much otherwise. I fully recommend the shinkansen, though, I love it.

 

Anyway, if it is your first time in Japan, feel free to pm me I've been to Japan 4 times by now and have learned some stuff, so I'd be happy to share some of that knowledge

 

[axelsandwich]

I hope this is okay to share this here (if sharing is not allowed on this thread, mods feel free to move to another more appropriate venue, I wasn't sure where to best put this) but some friends on twitter and I just started a FS podcast, trying to cover topics not addressed by current FS media, as well as fun stuff by fans and for fans. The first episode is out if you want to take a listen and we're always open to suggestions for topics to talk about etc. 

 

I managed to sneak a little Yuzuru reference in the end  

 

 

[Sammie]

21 minutes ago, kaerb said:

I hope this is okay to share this here (if sharing is not allowed on this thread, mods feel free to move to another more appropriate venue, I wasn't sure where to best put this) but some friends on twitter and I just started a FS podcast, trying to cover topics not addressed by current FS media, as well as fun stuff by fans and for fans. The first episode is out if you want to take a listen and we're always open to suggestions for topics to talk about etc. 

 

I managed to sneak a little Yuzuru reference in the end  

 

 

You ladies sound amazing! I only have time to listen to a few mins and will finish later today. But awesome job 

[Toni]

I wonder why no-one is discussing the fact that they censored Yuzu's heartfelt plea and confession that he suffered from being bullied by haters on-line and in the media (so badly he wanted to freaking die.) We concentrate, instead, on some guy just trying to make a living by cosplaying in ways that probably made Yuzu himself laugh hysterically -- after-all, he's not an actual narcissist who can't laugh at himself; he's even the first to laugh at his own falls. We bicker about this minutia, all while we stay silent (complicit) in the censorship of this man we profess to love. If we really love Yuzu, we will defend his right to be heard, especially when we all know how painful it is to speak from the heart and have those we hope will care just shut us down and turn away. To let them get away with censoring him is to be complicit the next time bullies go after him and Yuzu remains silent because the censorship and our lack of outrage about it proves to him that no-one cares. This may lead to him suppressing those feelings; and any good therapist will tell you that suppressing feelings because no-one cares leads to dangerous depression.

[Nerdincool]

11 minutes ago, Toni said:

I wonder why no-one is discussing the fact that they censored Yuzu's heartfelt plea and confession that he suffered from being bullied by haters on-line and in the media (so badly he wanted to freaking die.) We concentrate, instead, on some guy just trying to make a living by cosplaying in ways that probably made Yuzu himself laugh hysterically -- after-all, he's not an actual narcissist who can't laugh at himself; he's even the first to laugh at his own falls. We bicker about this minutia, all while we stay silent (complicit) in the censorship of this man we profess to love. If we really love Yuzu, we will defend his right to be heard, especially when we all know how painful it is to speak from the heart and have those we hope will care just shut us down and turn away. To let them get away with censoring him is to be complicit the next time bullies go after him and Yuzu remains silent because the censorship and our lack of outrage about it proves to him that no-one cares. This may lead to him suppressing those feelings; and any good therapist will tell you that suppressing feelings because no-one cares leads to dangerous depression.

Didn't we get into a whole mess about the "wanting to die" comment from CiONTU and decided that because it leads to speculation we'd drop it (more so in the CiONTU thread than here I believe)? There certainly was an outpouring of love and support from both Japanese and non-Japanese fans on Twitter (don't really think he cares that much about what people say on this forum). And I don't think he likes people mimicking him, especially in a funny manner since Nobu has mentioned he got mad at him for imitating his PW finish pose. AND I feel like laughing at your own mistakes to get better from them vs someone making fame and fortune off of you for badly imitating you for comedy are two very different things.

Also, you lost me at the censorship part.

[Toni]

2 minutes ago, Nerdincool said:

Didn't we get into a whole mess about the "wanting to die" comment from CiONTU and decided that because it leads to speculation we'd drop it (more so in the CiONTU thread than here I believe)? There certainly was an outpouring of love and support from both Japanese and non-Japanese fans on Twitter (don't really think he cares that much about what people say on this forum). And I don't think he likes people mimicking him, especially in a funny manner since Nobu has mentioned he got mad at him for imitating his PW finish pose. AND I feel like laughing at your own mistakes to get better from them vs someone making fame and fortune off of you for badly imitating you for comedy are two very different things.

Also, you lost me at the censorship part.

 

I'm only talking about our lack of outrage about them censoring him. I also think the "let's not talk about it" (fill in your excuses) is complicity and suppression. He plainly wanted us to talk about it, otherwise he wouldn't have deliberately raised the issue in such a public way. He's even thanked those who didn't find an excuse to "not talk about it," and instead defended him on-line. Those people had to "speculate" in order to defend him - and he thanked them for it.

[axelsandwich]

24 minutes ago, Toni said:

I wonder why no-one is discussing the fact that they censored Yuzu's heartfelt plea and confession that he suffered from being bullied by haters on-line and in the media (so badly he wanted to freaking die.) We concentrate, instead, on some guy just trying to make a living by cosplaying in ways that probably made Yuzu himself laugh hysterically -- after-all, he's not an actual narcissist who can't laugh at himself; he's even the first to laugh at his own falls. We bicker about this minutia, all while we stay silent (complicit) in the censorship of this man we profess to love. If we really love Yuzu, we will defend his right to be heard, especially when we all know how painful it is to speak from the heart and have those we hope will care just shut us down and turn away. To let them get away with censoring him is to be complicit the next time bullies go after him and Yuzu remains silent because the censorship and our lack of outrage about it proves to him that no-one cares. This may lead to him suppressing those feelings; and any good therapist will tell you that suppressing feelings because no-one cares leads to dangerous depression.

Like @Nerdincool said, speculation based on that one line without further clarification from yuzu himself was both risking overblowing the issue and going into complete denial and was ultimately going to be unproductive (but in case you missed it, I compiled a bunch of sources and translations here - the censorship issue is also addressed). In that sense, I'm disappointed at how JP media basically just brushed the comment under the table since they're the ones who would have had access to him to ask him to clarify further or discuss the issue but honestly, mental health is not an issue that is ever readily covered by media, especially not in East Asia where it is still a pretty huge social stigma, so I'm not entirely surprised : /

 

My key question in all of this is what can we do that will actually make an impact. Because getting outraged online won't actually make a difference to the JP broadcasters unless you're doing it in Japanese and in large numbers, nor will it stop tabloids and online antis from hating on him. As international fans, we're held back a lot by the language barrier (and make no mistake, JP fans defend him constantly against antis) -- the question is what can we materially do to help the JP fans try and minimise the hateful content that Yuzu himself might see? Is it a question of a 'watchdog' group to help report bad content? Is it a question of participating in hashtags? It's a question I think about a lot but, in the meantime, what we can do is to try and ensure his English-speaking haters are kept in check but also that we as a fandom are behaving in ways that will make Yuzu proud - which means not attacking other skaters, not behaving inappropriately etc. 

 

(Hearing about how this Yuzurenai guy is using Yuzu's image for profit in nightclubs does throw him more on the 'questionable' scale for me than someone who was just cosplaying him for Halloween and was invited on JP TV for the novelty, which is what we initially assumed/knew)

[KatjaThera]

9 minutes ago, Toni said:

I wonder why no-one is discussing the fact that they censored Yuzu's heartfelt plea and confession that he suffered from being bullied by haters on-line and in the media (so badly he wanted to freaking die.) We concentrate, instead, on some guy just trying to make a living by cosplaying in ways that probably made Yuzu himself laugh hysterically -- after-all, he's not an actual narcissist who can't laugh at himself; he's even the first to laugh at his own falls. We bicker about this minutia, all while we stay silent (complicit) in the censorship of this man we profess to love. If we really love Yuzu, we will defend his right to be heard, especially when we all know how painful it is to speak from the heart and have those we hope will care just shut us down and turn away. To let them get away with censoring him is to be complicit the next time bullies go after him and Yuzu remains silent because the censorship and our lack of outrage about it proves to him that no-one cares. This may lead to him suppressing those feelings; and any good therapist will tell you that suppressing feelings because no-one cares leads to dangerous depression.

I haven't followed the broadcast thread, but I suspect it was discussed there. However, I personally expected it to be so. It was a big shock when he first said it, because of the implication that he didn't just want to, but actually tried to (whatever that means; it's pretty vague in Japanese). And from what I've heard, they censored it immediately after already - I guess in the sense that no media picked up on it? In the West it'd be front page stuff... It could be their way of protecting the young, who might bypass the whole 'I'm fine now' part. (And copycat suicides by fans have happened in Japan, when a celebrity committed suicide.) It could also be simply avoiding the topic because he's said it once and that's enough. No reason to poke at it. It can even be a sort of respect for him. If I made such a personal comment, I'm not sure I'd want to hear about it or see it over and over and over and over and over again... (I'm also pretty sure that CiONTU event created a situation that enabled him to reveal such a personal thing, but that's not something he'd do, normally. So even more reasons not to have it shown again aside from when it actually happened)

 

On the other hand, we don't really know what he meant. We don't know if he's willing to talk about it further, or if he said it then, once, felt like saying it once, and that's it. So personally, I, too, would rather just take it matter of factly, without making any further assumptions. I'm sure he's not suppressing and he's got people around him who care and will show him they care. He doesn't really need the media focusing on that. On the contrary, I'd be more uncomfortable if they did focus on it, because that'd be intrusive. I expect him to bring it up again himself, if it's something he wants to talk about. And IMO, that's the better approach.

 

Also, they cut other parts as well, it's not like they literally censored that part. They cut stuff to make the broadcast shorter and, perhaps conveniently, they cut that part, too. I was sure they would, for many reasons. It may have been censorship, it may have been something else. It may have even been his own choice for all we know. Let's not assume.

[Toni]

3 minutes ago, kaerb said:

Like @Nerdincool said, speculation... My key question in all of this is what can we do that will actually make an impact.

 

What can you do?  I, for one, immediately sent messages to TV Asahi and FujiTV, complaining about the censorship. I hope you all did the same. One can yell loudly about censorship on-line. One can talk freely and stop being complicit. That's what one can do. There is strength in numbers. 

[KatjaThera]

5 minutes ago, kaerb said:

Like @Nerdincool said, speculation based on that one line without further clarification from yuzu himself was both risking overblowing the issue and going into complete denial and was ultimately going to be unproductive (but in case you missed it, I compiled a bunch of sources and translations here - the censorship issue is also addressed). In that sense, I'm disappointed at how JP media basically just brushed the comment under the table since they're the ones who would have had access to him to ask him to clarify further or discuss the issue but honestly, mental health is not an issue that is ever readily covered by media, especially not in East Asia where it is still a pretty huge social stigma, so I'm not entirely surprised : /

 

My key question in all of this is what can we do that will actually make an impact. Because getting outraged online won't actually make a difference to the JP broadcasters unless you're doing it in Japanese and in large numbers, nor will it stop tabloids and online antis from hating on him. As international fans, we're held back a lot by the language barrier (and make no mistake, JP fans defend him constantly against antis) -- the question is what can we materially do to help the JP fans try and minimise the hateful content that Yuzu himself might see? Is it a question of a 'watchdog' group to help report bad content? It's a question I think about a lot but, in the meantime, what we can do is to try and ensure his English-speaking haters are kept in check but also that we as a fandom are behaving in ways that will make Yuzu proud - which means not attacking other skaters, not behaving inappropriately etc. 

 

(Hearing about how this Yuzurenai guy is using Yuzu's image for profit in nightclubs does throw him more on the 'questionable' scale for me than someone who was just cosplaying him for Halloween and was invited on JP TV for the novelty, which is what we initially assumed/knew)

I don't know, personally I'd really hate it if after CiONTU he had been swarmed by reporters asking what he meant and does that mean he tried to kill himself and what exactly caused such a reaction. IMO, because it's such a personal thing, I'd rather they let him take the initiative of talking about it in more detail, IF he wants to. Because he might not and he really shouldn't have to if he doesn't want to. Maybe just let him know they would happily provide him the medium to talk about it, but I'm sure he knows he could easily find that, with Matsuoka or Nobu, if he wanted to. He has media people he trusts and whom he could turn to. But he might simply not want to. And we have to respect that as well. (From my personal experience, I've been struggling with anxiety for 5 years and I'm the first to tell anyone they shouldn't be ashamed of such struggles, but if it's about myself, I actually hate talking about myself in that context.)

 

I also doubt any watchdog group activities would prove worthwhile. Rather, I'd suggest fighting antis with facts. Whenever someone spouts a lie, everyone else should reply with the truth. There is such a thing as freedom of speech, so it's hard to shut them up, but we can try drowning them out. Fighting them is no good and there's no reason to stoop to that level. (Also giving any one group power is a bad idea, because as we know, power corrupts. And it's easy for things to get out of control.)

 

IMO, the best thing to do is to stay calm and respond rationally and not let antis get to us. Getting angry never really helped anyone.

[Nerdincool]

Just now, Toni said:

 

What can you do?  I, for one, immediately sent messages to TV Asahi and FujiTV, complaining about the censorship. I hope you all did the same. One can yell loudly about censorship on-line. One can talk freely and stop being complicit. That's what one can do. There is strength in numbers. 

Oh okay, now I get what you meant about the censorship.

However if there really was a problem with censorship I'd think it'd be with the JSF, not the media in general. From what it sounds like they dictate a lot of what Yuzu gets to do and say, and sometimes those decisions may not always be made with his best in mind.

[KatjaThera]

5 minutes ago, Toni said:

 

What can you do?  I, for one, immediately sent messages to TV Asahi and FujiTV, complaining about the censorship. I hope you all did the same. One can yell loudly about censorship on-line. One can talk freely and stop being complicit. That's what one can do. There is strength in numbers. 

What does FujiTV have to do with anything? And seriously, that's a total overreaction and drawing attention to something that actually wasn't even really Yuzu's point in making those comments. His actual point was broadcasted (albeit I guess it doesn't have quite the same impact because of the lack of background information).

 

Also, just because he said it once does not mean he ever has to talk about it publicly - or even privately - again. I'm happy he said it, for various reasons, some personal, but he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. No matter what anyone thinks. I also disagree that he said it because he wanted people to talk about it. He seemed uncomfortable as soon as he said it and tried to laugh it off when he heard the crowd reaction. I do want him to know it's ok to talk about it if he wants to, but I don't want to make a huge deal out of it either. I know I hate that, especially when it comes to very personal stuff.

 

And I maintain we don't know if the choice not to include that in the broadcast might not have been his.

[axelsandwich]

21 minutes ago, Toni said:

 

What can you do?  I, for one, immediately sent messages to TV Asahi and FujiTV, complaining about the censorship. I hope you all did the same. One can yell loudly about censorship on-line. One can talk freely and stop being complicit. That's what one can do. There is strength in numbers. 

I think the most productive way to incite action if you have the existing expertise is definitely to guide fans to resources and a clear call to action. set out the steps, give them help on expressing themselves (it's surprisingly hard to phrase a complaint well, productively and respectfully so it doesn't get tossed into the trash immediately as hate mail!) and emphasise why they should do it. Especially if you're writing to TV Asahi, a message in Japanese may be more impactful. I know a lot of fans want to help if they can but it's a large fandom and news/information gets lost very quickly, a lot of people may simply not be aware of how to help out. And, frankly, people will help out much more easily when it's easy to do so - like when gladi put up a guide to how to donate to the sendai parade for English-speaking fans. If it's numbers you're going for, there are ways you can help encourage it personally. 

[wingman]

1 hour ago, KatjaThera said:

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To add to what @sweetwater said, if traveling to other places, I think Seimei Shrine in Kyoto and Yuzuruha Shrine in Kobe are also nice places to visit as a Yuzu fan. You can see his emas and write your own, there.

 

As for Ice Rink Sendai, I've been there twice and their selection of goods is quite limited. I never found Irene gloves or other Irene goods physically there. But I did go after Yuzu-centric events in Sendai, so it's possible they sold out and normally they do have them. But the place is really great to see as a Yuzu fan. I believe the messages should still be up and while I don't know about the current exhibition, the gallery they have is nice already. (I got pretty teary looking at the Yuzu pictures and trophies, while the new Pandalion song played along).

 

I don't know if this is your first time in Japan, but depending on how long you're staying and what your plans are, if you travel outside of Tokyo, you might consider getting a JR Pass. It's really awesome if you want to go to many places, but pretty much a waste of money if you don't. (For example, for my trip for the Parade, I got a JR East Tohoku Pass, for aprox. 20,000yen, which gave me 5 days of free trips on all JR East lines, plus Tohoku. I used it for 3 day trips to Sendai, 1 to Kitakami to see cherry blossoms and 1 to Enoshima - though also had to pay the local Odakyu train there, extra. But it was only 300yen or so, so it was worth it.) Given that a shinkansen ticket to Sendai is about 10,000 yen, it was more than worth it. A full Japan pass is 35,000 I think, which again, is worth it if you take at least 2-3 round trips by shinkansen, but not so much otherwise. I fully recommend the shinkansen, though, I love it.

 

Anyway, if it is your first time in Japan, feel free to pm me I've been to Japan 4 times by now and have learned some stuff, so I'd be happy to share some of that knowledge

 

Thank you @sweetwater and @KatjaThera - these a great recommendations. I'm planning to travel Japan next year and have meant to ask this question too.

I'm worried though that I cannot find all these posts again in a year time (who knows how many pages we would have reached by then - plus maybe other people want to add recommendations). Should we start a "Yuzu japan travel guide" thread? (Pretty please, dear admins?)

[Toni]

10 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

On the other hand, we don't really know what he meant. We don't know if he's willing to talk about it further, or if he said it then, once, felt like saying it once, and that's it.

 

Yeah, except he also deliberately brought the bullying issue up with Johnny and Plushy in his interviews, making it absolutely clear that he wants people to talk about it. It was a theme he deliberately chose for the third day, when he knew it was being broadcast live around the world and he couldn't be censored then. I think he knew exactly what he was going to say about it and even rehearsed his speach. He's also mentioned it before CiONTU, so there is no way this was just a spur of the moment, private discussion (with thousands of people.) He wants us to actively try to stop people from bullying everyone -- even each other. That's absolutely clear. Just listen to him.