Yatagarasu Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, kaeryth said: He really has no choice now if he wants to stay competitive. Hopefully it all works out for him. Well technically, that's true but the question is how good is his 4Lo, and then there's the issue of actually putting it in competition and making it work there. It's an edge jump too and I wonder, especially after this season. Javier is in a pretty pickle really. It's a lot of pressure on him, considering he chose what he did for this past season. Of course, there's the question of the number of quads and does three with the 4Lo even mean anything. And yet, upping both the number of quads with a new one is very risky indeed. As I said in the Igloo I actually wonder if he's going to adopt the strategy of just getting used to the 4Lo and then somewhere in the middle, upping the number of quads themselves, so basically spacing it out. This also has its own risk really, because he has less time to get used to the timings of a four quad program. Pretty pickle indeed. If he can of course, even if he's dodgy, he'll get the scores, so I think he's going to risk it in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Here's an updated listing of the men's SP layout BVs. I will keep adding to this list and then make a consolidated list once most of the Top 10 men's layouts are known. *Nathan CHEN: 4Lz3T 4F // 3A BV: 53.15 (0.00) Vincent ZHOU: 4Lz3T 4F // 3A BV: 53.15 *Boyang JIN: 4Lz3T 3A // 4T BV: 51.33 (0.00) Shoma UNO: 4F // 4T3T 3A | BV: 51.31 (1.46) Yuzuru HANYU: 4Lo // 3A 4T3T | BV: 51.01 (1.35) * Patrick CHAN: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 48.05 (4.75) *Javier FERNÁNDEZ: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 47.75 (0.00) Number in italics is the BV difference against last season's SP layout. *No information on upgrades yet. OPTIONS Boyang JIN 4Lz3T 3A // 4S | BV: 51.55 4Lz3T // 3A 4T | BV: 52.18 4Lz3T // 3A 4S | BV: 52.40 4Lz // 4T3T 3A | BV: 52.61 Javier FERNÁNDEZ 4T3T // 4S 3A | BV: 48.80 4S // 4T3T 3A | BV: 49.21 4T // 4S3T 3A | BV: 49.23 4Lo 4T3T // 3A | BV: 49.25 4Lo 4S3T // 3A | BV: 49.45 4Lo // 4T3T 3A | BV: 50.71 4Lo // 4S3T 3A | BV: 50.93 Patrick CHAN 4T3T 3A // 4S | BV: 48.25 4T3T 4F // 3A | BV: 49.85 4F3T 3A // 4T | BV: 50.03 4T3T 3A // 4F | BV: 50.23 4F3T 3A // 4S | BV: 50.25 4F 3A // 4T3T | BV: 50.46 4F // 4T3T 3A | BV: 51.31 4T3T // 4F 3A | BV: 51.08 Shoma UNO 4T // 4F3T 3A | BV: 51.51 4Lo // 4F3T 3A | BV: 53.21 Yuzuru HANYU 4Lz // 4T3T 3A | BV: 52.61 Nathan CHEN 4Lz3T 3A // 4F | BV: 53.53 4Lz3T // 4F 3A | BV: 54.38 3A // 4Lz3T 4F | BV: 55.32 ------- Mikhail KOLYADA 4Lz3T 4T // 3A OR 4Lz 4T3T // 3A | BV: 51.15 4Lz 3A // 4T3T | BV: 51.76 4Lz3T // 4T 3A | BV: 52.18 4Lz // 4T3T 3A | BV: 52.61 Jason BROWN: 3A 4S // 3F3T | BV: 43.16 Edit on 23 June. Added some more alternatives and corrected BV for Boyang's alternatives because they were absolutely wrong. Edit on 24 June. Added possibilities for Mikhail Kolyada's layout with 4Lz. Edit on 28 June. Added one more alternative for Shoma and Patrick. Edit on 22 July. Added Vincent Zhou's planned SP BV and one possibility for Jason Brown's SP. Edit on 30 July. Added a new SP layout possibility for Nathan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 2:33 PM, xeyra said: Here's an updated listing of the Top 6 men SP layout BVs, though once I know what the men outside the Top 6 will do, I will make a consolidated BV listing. *Nathan CHEN: 4Lz3T 4F // 3A BV: 53.15 (0.00) Shoma UNO: 4F // 4T3T 3A | BV: 51.31 (1.46) Yuzuru HANYU: 4Lo // 3A 4T3T | BV: 51.01 (1.35) *Boyang JIN: 4Lz3T 3A // 4T BV: 48.97 (0.00) Patrick CHAN: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 48.05 (4.75) *Javier FERNÁNDEZ: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 47.75 (0.00) Number in italics is the BV difference against last season's SP layout. *No information on upgrades yet. OPTIONS Boyang JIN: 4Lz3T 3A // 4S | BV: 49.19 (0.22) 4Lz3T // 3A 4T | BV: 49.82 (0.85) 4Lz3T // 3A 4S | BV: 50.04 (1.07) 4Lz // 4T3T 3A | BV: 50.25 (1.28) Javier FERNÁNDEZ: 4T3T // 4S 3A | BV: 48.80 (1.05) Question, how come Patrick and javier BV of 4t3t 4s // 3a is of different value?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, ymy said: Question, how come Patrick and javier BV of 4t3t 4s // 3a is of different value?? Different spin types, which have different BVs. All these layout BVs assume all level 4s, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, xeyra said: Different spin types, which have different BVs. All these layout BVs assume all level 4s, of course. Understand thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Updated and corrected the SP BV base value speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katt Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 6/20/2017 at 1:33 PM, xeyra said: Here's an updated listing of the Top 6 men SP layout BVs, though once I know what the men outside the Top 6 will do, I will make a consolidated BV listing. *Nathan CHEN: 4Lz3T 4F // 3A BV: 53.15 (0.00) *Boyang JIN: 4Lz3T 3A // 4T BV: 51.33 (0.00) Shoma UNO: 4F // 4T3T 3A | BV: 51.31 (1.46) Yuzuru HANYU: 4Lo // 3A 4T3T | BV: 51.01 (1.35) Patrick CHAN: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 48.05 (4.75) *Javier FERNÁNDEZ: 4T3T 4S // 3A | BV: 47.75 (0.00) This is the most likely scenario in this season. I dont think we will see Patrick do 4F and Javi do 4Lo in SP. Tbh they don't need it. There's some talk about Patrick's 4F but I don't see it happen. He will do 2 quad SP but the LP might be the same layout. He hasn't skated clean a 3 quads LP and hasn't landed all clean quads in LP so I don't think he will upgrade his free layout. Javi's 4lo in LP is more likely Nathan may try to backload his 4F in 2nd half though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Katt said: This is the most likely scenario in this season. I dont think we will see Patrick do 4F and Javi do 4Lo in SP. Tbh they don't need it. There's some talk about Patrick's 4F but I don't see it happen. He will do 2 quad SP but the LP might be the same layout. He hasn't skated clean a 3 quads LP and hasn't landed all clean quads in LP so I don't think he will upgrade his free layout. Javi's 4lo in LP is more likely Nathan may try to backload his 4F in 2nd half though. Oh I agree, but... well... GS made me throw the kitchen sink at layout possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katt Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, xeyra said: Oh I agree, but... well... GS made me throw the kitchen sink at layout possibilities. Oh I always love to see more options when its come to layout/BV *I love math* With the men's field these days, anything can happen. Thank you for spending time to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yana Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, xeyra said: Oh I agree, but... well... GS made me throw the kitchen sink at layout possibilities. You are so patient. Re Patrick and Javi, I don't think they will do new quad in SP. It possible they will do it in FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Katt said: Oh I always love to see more options when its come to layout/BV *I love math* With the men's field these days, anything can happen. Thank you for spending time to do this Oh, I like doing these things when I'm procrastinating because it relaxes me. My productivity shoots to hell, of course, but we're entering slow Summer months anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralucutzagy Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bv vnlao Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Do you know why Chopin 2.0' layout in AC and SC 2015 was so different from its in later competitions? I have just noticed it this morning and wonder why? theirs begin with 3A as first jump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katt Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 30 minutes ago, bv vnlao said: Do you know why Chopin 2.0' layout in AC and SC 2015 was so different from its in later competitions? I have just noticed it this morning and wonder why? theirs begin with 3A as first jump Chopin layout in AC/SC 2015 is the original layout (3A//4T 3lz3T) . In 2014/15 season he only attempted this layout at COC 2014 and have to change it (4T// 3A 3lz3T) because of injuries/collision. He went back to original layout at the beginning of 20155/16 season but after getting zayak at SC 2015, he decided to get rid of that lutz combo and upgrade it into 2 quads layout (4S 4T3T//3A) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaumudi Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Seems like Shoma tried 4Lz (but popped into 2Lz) in his sp at DOI. https://twitter.com/figureskate_3a/status/883932498446635008 (Not very much sure about his strategy. Will he dare to run the risk of being called for the sake of BV? Or has he corrected his edges already through the camp in Canada? He practiced 4Lz during WTT gala practice iirc, but seeing the video I didn't feel he would land it anytime soon.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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