General Skating Chat

[cinemacoconut]

I dnt wnt judges to appear at Open Practice. Skaters being aware of their presence will try to impress them and will more likely be involved in collisions. 

 

ISU accepting arm movements as transitions?? Wth

[Xen]

6 minutes ago, cinemacoconut said:

I dnt wnt judges to appear at Open Practice. Skaters being aware of their presence will try to impress them and will more likely be involved in collisions. 

 

ISU accepting arm movements as transitions?? Wth

Judges already go to official practices at times, it's not really new. I don't think collisions will be the new norm.

ISU has accepted arm movements as transitions for a while, as well as "quality crossovers". Frankly none of this is new-it's just the first time that ISU has admitted to it. The only question is whether or not these quality arm movements and crossovers will be accepted as complex as say, a sequence involving rockers+counters+choctaws which are more difficult movements. If they're not, then to a degree, nothing new; if quality crossovers are accepted as on par, then it's game over FS as we know it.

[wombat-poodle]

I just feel kinda sad. Yuzuru has done so much for the sport, he brought skating to a new level and the skating economy to new heights as well. But the ISU takes every opportunity to try and bring him down. I know all their evil actions will be futile when Zuzu ultimately lands a 4A on the ISU's face, but still. 

[MrPudding]

Yuzuru vs ISU

Who will win lol

 

but am I the only one that thinks once in a while the judges committee get together and discuss how not to give to much to yuzu except the obvious eg: 3A, just so they can "balance" out the scores with the other skaters.... as in: to avoid having everyone else's scores in the same range and then yuzu's who is way up..

So by giving yuzu picky GOE they can 'achieve' a "more balance" scores amongst the skaters and also prepare for when yuzu r* so that after he does r*, figure skating viewers don't see the difference as much 

[cinemacoconut]

Landing 4A on ISU's face haha thats gotta be the new trend setting word of 2018. 

 

I find the crossovers really boring. Like there are some skaters in the past (not naming names) whose program was crossover→jump in repetition to make their jumps bigger and wider and while thats good for creatin jump distance and height, makes FS look like half pipe (jumping contest) in yuzus recent words

[cinemacoconut]

2 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

Yuzuru vs ISU

Who will win lol

 

but am I the only one that thinks once in a while the judges committee get together and discuss how not to give to much to yuzu except the obvious eg: 3A, just so they can "balance" out the scores with the other skaters.... as in: to avoid having everyone else's scores in the same range and then yuzu's who is way up..

So by giving yuzu picky GOE they can 'achieve' a "more balance" scores amongst the skaters and also prepare for when yuzu r* so that after he does r*, figure skating viewers don't see the difference as much 

 

 

Im in shock. Yuzu is the poster boy for figure skating. How can they do this to his legacy??? 

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

Yuzuru vs ISU

Who will win lol

 

but am I the only one that thinks once in a while the judges committee get together and discuss how not to give to much to yuzu except the obvious eg: 3A, just so they can "balance" out the scores with the other skaters.... as in: to avoid having everyone else's scores in the same range and then yuzu's who is way up..

So by giving yuzu picky GOE they can 'achieve' a "more balance" scores amongst the skaters and also prepare for when yuzu r* so that after he does r*, figure skating viewers don't see the difference as much 

If you follow that tweet a little longer, you'll notice there are a lot of new guidelines just targetting at Russian ladies skaters. I'm just sick of the lack of neutrality with the new guidelines.

 

Backloading is perfectly fine-the issue of whether or not a program is balanced, is not something to be determined by rules alone, and shifting jumps throughout a program. You can reduce points off of CO, PE and IN if the backloading is not well executed and distracting, but you don't have to do away completely with backloading. Especially with the quad+3A girls coming up, this is going to make it harder for the ladies without quads/3As to catch up. Same with the tano-ing and the rippons: if not done well, you don't have to give the bullet point for "with the music", and if done to the degree of detracting from the program, deduct a 0.1 or so from PE or IN. It's all already in the rules, not sure why we're bending over backwards to "catch up with the Russians."

[WinForPooh]

4 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

Yuzuru vs ISU

Who will win lol

 

but am I the only one that thinks once in a while the judges committee get together and discuss how not to give to much to yuzu except the obvious eg: 3A, just so they can "balance" out the scores with the other skaters.... as in: to avoid having everyone else's scores in the same range and then yuzu's who is way up..

So by giving yuzu picky GOE they can 'achieve' a "more balance" scores amongst the skaters and also prepare for when yuzu r* so that after he does r*, figure skating viewers don't see the difference as much 

Lighthearted 'jokes' have a way of revealing more than you intend about what you actually think.

 

If this is so annoying to us, I wonder how Yuzu must feel. Or Brian. Or, hell, Eteri, because transitions and consistency are the two things her skaters really have going for them. Or skaters who have been working to improve SS and TR (as they used to be defined), like Boyang. Call it Figure Jumping Competition With Some Spins and a Step Sequence.

[wombat-poodle]

Just now, cinemacoconut said:

Landing 4A on ISU's face haha thats gotta be the new trend setting word of 2018. 

 

 

If that's what it takes for ISU to wake up, then... I feel like Scott Moir at the Oly gold medal hockey match, screaming "Wake up! Are you kidding me?"

 

I just don't get it. If ISU wants to "level" the field between the Russian girls and other girls, maybe they could, you know, stop the ridiculous PCS inflation of the top Russians? Maybe give out some proper edge calls? And give the Japanese ladies the PCS they deserve? All these they can do and it will still be FAIR and LEGAL under the current rules? And look, even if they change the rules, do they not realize that the Russians WILL read the rule book and are indeed smart enough to adapt to the new rules? They will and they will still dominate. 

[MrPudding]

1 minute ago, Xen said:

There are a lot of new guidelines just targetting at Russian ladies skaters. I'm just sick of the lack of neutrality with the new guidelines.

Backloading is perfectly fine-the issue of whether or not a program is balanced, is not something to be determined by rules alone, and shifting jumps throughout a program. You can reduce points off of CO, PE and IN if the backloading is not well executed and distracting, but you don't have to do away completely with backloading. Especially with the quad girls coming up, this is going to make it harder for the ladies without quads to catch up. Same with the tano-ing and the rippons: if not done well, you don't have to give the bullet point for "with the music", and if done to the degree of detracting from the program, deduct a 0.1 or so from PE or IN. It's all already in the rules, not sure why we're bending over backwards to "catch up with the Russians."

I agree, although there are some biases in the mens.. it is crazy over at the ladies

But making too many changes really doesn't help if the judges don't do their job properly.. aka where are the flutz and lip calls..

although this change might have a shot to balance out the ladies but truthfully speaking will it work when biased judging will still happen especially with that +5 GOE

[Xen]

Just now, WinForPooh said:

Lighthearted 'jokes' have a way of revealing more than you intend about what you actually think.

 

If this is so annoying to us, I wonder how Yuzu must feel. Or Brian. Or, hell, Eteri, because transitions and consistency are the two things her skaters really have going for them. Or skaters who have been working to improve SS and TR (as they used to be defined), like Boyang. Call it Figure Jumping Competition With Some Spins and a Step Sequence.

I'm honestly shocked that these guidelines managed to pass, since other than the US, none of the other big feds gain anything. This doesn't help Canada since they have on average, some of the best SS among their skaters. It also doesn't help Russians, since TR in their ladies is their bread n butter. China can't be too pleased, since it hurts their pairs teams, and JPN can't be too pleased either, since it makes life even harder for their ladies. Most of western europe will get hurt a bit too, since their ladies on average don't have quads or 3A's, and other than backloading the TES won't easily catch up with the younger east asian or russian ladies.

[wombat-poodle]

Maybe the Russian Federation is not as influential as we previously thought. It also baffles me - the Russian girls are frontrunners in the TR department and in the backloading business as well. USFSA, on the other hand, has almost too much to gain. They're getting cocky about it; at the Olympics US judge Lorrie Parker unabashedly and almost single-handedly brought Yuzu's scores down and everybody knows it but there are no consequences. It's true that ISU has always been kind of evil, but now they even don't bother pretending to be good.

[Eclair]

spreading out the PCS is a good thing in my eyes. This way, skaters can get high SS but low transitions or vice versa (Carolina/Alina) for example. 

 

But will the blatant biased judging stop? of course not. Will they adress it? haha, good one. 

So will anything change? nope. 

Who will score high? Big fed skaters will get higher GOE, higher PCS, less edge and UR calls than small fed skaters no matter what the rule changes. 

[WinForPooh]

5 minutes ago, Xen said:

I'm honestly shocked that these guidelines managed to pass, since other than the US, none of the other big feds gain anything. This doesn't help Canada since they have on average, some of the best SS among their skaters. It also doesn't help Russians, since TR in their ladies is their bread n butter. China can't be too pleased, since it hurts their pairs teams, and JPN can't be too pleased either, since it makes life even harder for their ladies. Most of western europe will get hurt a bit too, since their ladies on average don't have quads or 3A's, and other than backloading the TES won't easily catch up with the younger east asian or russian ladies.

But the US ladies don't really have the jumps either right now, so... (One of the juniors at Worlds this time can do about a million 3Ts in a row but they're all tanoed and muscled. Is there an anti-tano guideline, too?)

[Eclair]

1 minute ago, wombat-poodle said:

Maybe the Russian Federation is not as influential as we previously thought. It also baffles me - the Russian girls are frontrunners in the TR department and in the backloading business as well. USFSA, on the other hand, has almost too much to gain. They're getting cocky about it; at the Olympics US judge Lorrie Parker unabashedly and almost single-handedly brought Yuzu's scores down and everybody knows it but there are no consequences. It's true that ISU has always been kind of evil, but now they even don't bother pretending to be good.

in ladies, doing a transition before a solo jump in the SP is not that hard, so everyone is doing it. It doesn't change anything for the Russian ladies, if arm movements are now considered TR before a solo jump. On the other hand, the rule change could potentially benefit their male skaters, because doing steps before a quad is way more difficult.