ISU Congress 2022 (6-10 June)

[LiaRy]

So they first reduce PCS from 5 to 3 THEN they come up with the split judges into PC and TE sections... Why couldn't they just do it the other way around?! Meaning they could've tested to see if splitting the judges works and then make a decision of reducing PCS - which should've never happened. Also, what are they testing the splitting now for? It's not like PC scores are going to be SO HARD to assign now considering the reduction of requirements - it's just vibes. Almost literally.

[Perelandra]

The judging panel split will be tested first. 

PCS reduction to 3 groupings is approved

The factor multiplication applied to PCS will be introduced to account for the PCS reducing to 3

 

[Muffinator]

@Perelandra So now that the Congress is over, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? LOL

Thanks for all your hard work!

[Perelandra]

Hahaha, yes, most probably I'll use my time to find out the best way to get tickets for competitions.

Any sage advice would be welcome. June 20th might be first hint about whether Yuzu is going to compete and which comps.

 

I'm pleased to be able to contribute to the Planet

I've not had time to join a fan group before so the Planet has been a huge resource, for which I'm grateful. After Beijing Games, I could not find any helpful info about Yuzu which wasn't full of worry ( understandably ) or filled with schadenfreude. I'd encountered the Planet as a guest in the past and had read a few pages, but lurking and reading Then I went to the very beginning from page 1 of General Yuzu thread, yes I actually went to the source ( A bit like Vicotrian explorers searching for the source of the Nile )

Definitely worthwhile exercise because It was like reading the history of everything, without risk of coming across unpleasant reading.

Many satellites take a great deal of care to find things out, share the latest news, knowledge and their expert views and knowledge. This is my way showing thanks and hopefully of paying back the efforts of others.

 

Hopefully the summaries will be of help for those who want to find out what went on at the congress and put some of the Twitter and other screen shots and posts into context, without having to sit through the recordings. In addition some people may not have the time nor will to sit through the congress and some people may not want to give ISU views on Youtube. For some people a transcript summary is easiest to digest and it will be in the thread for reference

I'm used to attending conferences/ lecture series, in person and on line, taking notes and writing them up. Plus I've had decades of practice digesting journal articles, textbooks etc Happy times eh

[Perelandra]

Regarding the congress:

I completely forgot to include an important message from ISU Director General Fredi Schmidt

Some of the congress members had returned positive COVID tests following day 2 routine testing and delegates and council were asked to make sure to perform tests before leaving.

Bit of an Oops moment considering the Twitter footage of their party

[Muffinator]

A plague? A sign from God lol. Don’t be messing with our boy!

[Wintek]

1 hour ago, Perelandra said:

Hahaha, yes, most probably I'll use my time to find out the best way to get tickets for competitions.

Any sage advice would be welcome. June 20th might be first hint about whether Yuzu is going to compete and which comps.

 

I'm pleased to be able to contribute to the Planet

I've not had time to join a fan group before so the Planet has been a huge resource, for which I'm grateful. After Beijing Games, I could not find any helpful info about Yuzu which wasn't full of worry ( understandably ) or filled with schadenfreude. I'd encountered the Planet as a guest in the past and had read a few pages, but lurking and reading Then I went to the very beginning from page 1 of General Yuzu thread, yes I actually went to the source ( A bit like Vicotrian explorers searching for the source of the Nile )

Definitely worthwhile exercise because It was like reading the history of everything, without risk of coming across unpleasant reading.

Many satellites take a great deal of care to find things out, share the latest news, knowledge and their expert views and knowledge. This is my way showing thanks and hopefully of paying back the efforts of others.

 

Hopefully the summaries will be of help for those who want to find out what went on at the congress and put some of the Twitter and other screen shots and posts into context, without having to sit through the recordings. In addition some people may not have the time nor will to sit through the congress and some people may not want to give ISU views on Youtube. For some people a transcript summary is easiest to digest and it will be in the thread for reference

I'm used to attending conferences/ lecture series, in person and on line, taking notes and writing them up. Plus I've had decades of practice digesting journal articles, textbooks etc Happy times eh

Thank you so much for your hard work. I was trying to keep up watching some of the live sessions but the time difference and my work made it very hard. Your summaries were were very helpful!

[Paskud]

I totally feel like I'm missing something important, so you are free to correct me. But while I agree it's annoying af, for now I find the reaction to the change of PCS unnecessarily dramatic.

First of all, come on, of course IN still exists. Expressionn and timing (and unison) is everything that IN was about. It just got a new name.

 

90% of judges did, do and still will understand PCS as artistry.

Meanwhile for the rest who still use a half of their braincell, the 3 PCS can be summarised as:

CO -  how well program is constructed

PRE - how well program is performed/expressed

SS - how well program is skated/executed

And what is exactly written in the chart is just an explanation.

Considering that what they wanted is PCS to less overlap between each other, they mostly succeded. Mostly, because variety of steps, turns, movements and directions (so difficulty of the program) should be in CO according to the logic above, but oh well.

 

About TR, at first glance it may seem that they aren't important anymore. But in reality steps before element are still a + goe bullet or a level feature, long preparation is still a - goe bullet, variety of steps and turns is still there and connection between elements is still there. So it's not like skaters can just take out all transitions and expect that it won't affect their scores. I think after removal of mandatory steps before solo jump in SP the situation is clear already. These who had empty programs will still have empty programs and these who tried will still try.

 

It's a bit like with varied air position 4 years ago. Everybody wondered if now rippons/tanos are part of good position bullet. And the thruth is that we still don't know but in fact that change worked very well. It stopped the helicopter tano trend Medo have started and at the same time still a lot of ladies do jumps with tano/rippon and judges still tend to score them higher.

We will see how new PCS will work, but I find current pesimistic predictions about TR premature.

 

 

What I would fear right now, is one of shameless coaches, like Raf or Tom Z, going "well, there is no TR anymore" in one of interviews, because that could make situation spiral out of control.

[Perelandra]

At the end of the day, quad jumps have a high base value.

Some skaters feel that it's better to rack up points using jumps. This can translate to spending time on jump practice and not spending time training on skating skills like complex steps and transitions, only jumps and other compulsory movements. 

In the past some skaters have not seen score deficits with programmes containing few or poorly executed skills and have disjointed programmes, jumps and few linking elements. When time is limited for training, poor quality judging / scoring disincentivises efforts to train skating skills

Yuzu carefully crafts his programmes to combine the athletic elements with beautiful aesthetics. His performances really stand out for complexity and his investment in them.

That is why fans adore Yuzu and his signature skating. What is strange, saddening and frustrating is that the judges don't reward the efforts put in by Yuzu

People worry about any scoring system, because the PCS is based on the judges view point and potentially subject to bias. If the bias is negative, which has often been the case concerning Yuzu's performances, people are concerned that Yuzu will once again be underscored. He will see his efforts unrewarded once again.

[Anabel]

For me the important point remains the same, will the judges continue to give GOEs and PCS depending on the skater they judge or will they follow the rules equally and fairly with everyone? It doesn't matter what the manual or the rules say if them are not going to be followed. It doesn't matter how blatant the manipulation is if no one is going to raise their voice about it.

 

Someone said, I don't know if here or in the Safe place to vent about the lack of complaints from skaters. It's true, but I also understand that their situation is delicate. To act individually in a sport in which your results depend on the people you are going to point out is almost digging your own grave. The athletes should form some sort of union or something so they can have a real voice and lobbying power and not just be another tool in the hands of the ISU. Perhaps this way it would be much easier to deal with issues such as mental health, abuse (physical and mental) of some coaches, fair when judging, etc.

 

I have a question, will all the approved changes be applied already in this 2022-2023 season?

[Perelandra]

When the vote for the reduction of PCS took place. There was an enormous amount of confusion because this particular proposal was part of a block of proposals which seemed to have been discussed at ISU congress 2020. The 2020 congress was on line and it had been agreed that really important proposals would be worked on to be approved ( or not ) at the in person 2022 congress. The final discussion for the PCS item was to agree to keep it in the block of proposals for the vote or raise objection and remove this proposal from the block. Once it was accepted as part of the proposal block, there was a further vote to accept or reject the block. Vote Passed with majority. 

I think that this block of proposals is due to start in the upcoming season. Bearing in mind that these proposals had been discussed in principle at the 2020 congress

If no season stipulated, then the next season is the start date.

Having watched the entire congress there were instances where it seemed as if the topics had just appeared. I then realised that the council and delegates had the benefit of a printed agenda to refer to. They are party to info via the printed agenda and reading materials about the discussion items, which the council has produced and the delegates are supposed to read and make comments for the live discussions.  When the items were discussed it was often to confirm wording and then vote to finalise the proposal either as Passed or Rejected

 

Please correct the start dates for the passed proposals. It is possible that I missed the information due to lapse in concentration

[Anabel]

It makes sense that if there is no stipulated date, by default it is applied in the coming season. But I have doubts about the PCS issue since I understand that the judges should receive training in this regard, right? At least even if it is to make it more believable or serious...

 

Thanks for your ezplanation!  

[Perelandra]

I have a horrible suspicion that training will be minimal to non existent. Possibly because this proposal was brought from the previous congress. There may have been learning material associated with the scoring system, but this was not discussed explicitly at the congress. Although there were several mentions of online eLearning during the conference. One of the proposals was specifically about the time interval between learning courses, which are undertaken for revalidation of various event officials: judges, tech panel etc

GB delegate Margaret Worsfold queried about whether any specific additional training would be required for judges prior to instituting the 3 PCS scoring. Fabio Bianchetti, Tech Committee - Singles and Pairs, said that new system would be easier for judges to evaluate PCS so training not necessary. He said all of the necessary research and groundwork to formulate the 3 PCS categories had been done for the proposal and elements for judging was self explanatory. Scoring range from Outstanding down to Poor, with numerical score assigned for this for the items in the PCS. The factor for multiplying the PCS research had also been done for the purpose of introducing the 3 PCS

 

Spoiler

Margaret Worsfold is an ISU referee. She seems to be consistently strict but fair with regards event running, think Professor McGonagall, plus she has Scottish accent and seems to have Scottish pragmatism. I gather that she is well respected. In the BBC documentary on iPlayer, she briefs a judging panel prior to a British test event, all British judges due to COVID travel restrictions. She tells the panel ,that although they know all of the British competitors very well, that they must judge on the performance seen at the test event and not base scores on previous performances and other cues that may lead to bias. 

 

[Anabel]

With everything you have said, it even makes sense that there is no training lol So it is logical that they start applying in the following season.

 

Spoiler

They could all be more like Margaret Worsfold...

 

 

[Perelandra]

There may be some online eLearning. At the conference there were a number of references to the online resources.

One of the proposals which was accepted - eLearning for revalidation set to 24 months for revalidation for judges, tech specialists, tech controllers and some other officials

So it is always possible that this may be a mandatory training sort of thing, new system - learning certification. It is ISU so who knows?