Racism in fandom?

[QuadOllie]

So this is the last thing I expected to come back to. Hoping we can all agree that the conversation that just happened above, which can be summed up as:

 

"I'm a white woman, something is wrong with me for being attracted to an asian man, when will it end?"

"Oh, you're now addicted to a race. Here are some other young men of that race who I think you would find attractive." 

 

is racist, fetishizing, and just altogether unacceptable? 

 

Because if not, this has turned out to be a community that I decidedly do not want to be a part of. Referring to being attracted to asian people as a "mockery of control" and that "all is lost" is just so beyond anything I ever expected to see from this site, joking or not. I am genuinely disgusted right now. 

[micaelis]

7 hours ago, zootown said:

Yuzu's beauty is undeniable but I believe attraction is more then that, his attitude and character are also attractive...you maybe doomed! For others there may still be hope :-) Joking obviously but how is it possible that he does not seem to age, is it the cold of ice rinks or lack of outdoor activities???

I recently posted my comments about how Yuzu seems to be improving through age.  Yes, Yuzu is very attractive, beautiful actually, but there is more than just a handsome face and presumably perfectly toned body (from what we can see and imagine lies beneath his Under Armour).  Actually, there is an English word that describes it - charisma - the possessing of an aura that simply draws one beyond simple admiration to complex adoration.  On the negative side Hitler had it, on the affirmative side John Paul II had it.  What is involved is more than physical attractiveness although a very high proportion of those with charisma have extreme good looks, but that is not the whole story.  Yuzu's attractions surpass mere physicality, and we adore Yuzu because of what he IS in toto.  Just as as a skater he's the complete package, as a human being he's also a complete package.

[SeimeiOrigin]

1 hour ago, QuadOllie said:

So this is the last thing I expected to come back to. Hoping we can all agree that the conversation that just happened above, which can be summed up as:

 

"I'm a white woman, something is wrong with me for being attracted to an asian man, when will it end?"

"Oh, you're now addicted to a race. Here are some other young men of that race who I think you would find attractive." 

 

is racist, fetishizing, and just altogether unacceptable? 

 

Because if not, this has turned out to be a community that I decidedly do not want to be a part of. Referring to being attracted to asian people as a "mockery of control" and that "all is lost" is just so beyond anything I ever expected to see from this site, joking or not. I am genuinely disgusted right now. 

My apologies. I did not at all mean to imply that I did not want to be attracted to a man of any race. What I meant was that I am so distracted that it makes it hard for me to concentrate on my everyday life, hence asking when will it end. I do not think there is something wrong with me for thinking Yuzu is attractive. It was just unexpected and I am trying to adjust to a different way of thinking. I thought posting my feelings here would be in good company and other people would understand. I do not realize that the way I was feeling could be construed as racist or fetishizing. If it came across that way it was not intended. 

[QuadOllie]

11 minutes ago, SeimeiOrigin said:

My apologies. I did not at all mean to imply that I did not want to be attracted to a man of any race. What I meant was that I am so distracted that it makes it hard for me to concentrate on my everyday life, hence asking when will it end. I do not think there is something wrong with me for thinking Yuzu is attractive. It was just unexpected and I am trying to adjust to a different way of thinking. I thought posting my feelings here would be in good company and other people would understand. I do not realize that the way I was feeling could be construed as racist or fetishizing. If it came across that way it was not intended. 

I would just like to make something very clear to you. There is no "construed" happening here. What you said was racist and fetishizing, and made many asian people who saw your post extremely uncomfortable. Intent doesn't matter. If you're trying to change the way you think, great. But please, please, do not give me a half baked "I'm sorry you felt offended by what I said" when an "I'm sorry for causing offense" is just as easy, that's the worst fake apology you can give. 

[WinForPooh]

33 minutes ago, SeimeiOrigin said:

My apologies. I did not at all mean to imply that I did not want to be attracted to a man of any race. What I meant was that I am so distracted that it makes it hard for me to concentrate on my everyday life, hence asking when will it end. I do not think there is something wrong with me for thinking Yuzu is attractive. It was just unexpected and I am trying to adjust to a different way of thinking. I thought posting my feelings here would be in good company and other people would understand. I do not realize that the way I was feeling could be construed as racist or fetishizing. If it came across that way it was not intended. 

 

No, there is nothing wrong with considering Yuzu attractive.

 

However extrapolating how attractive Yuzu is - or rather how attracted you feel to Yuzu - to a generalization about your attraction or lack thereof towards Australian/Japanese men, referencing your own race and citizenship, and then indicating that you might now extend Yuzu and his attractiveness towards other Japanese men because Yuzu is now attractive IS fetishizing, and also possibly crosses a few lines we've always had about how much sexual content is allowed on PH. According to our rules, NO sexual content is allowed. It is not enforced very strictly but it is still a rule and there are lines satellites are expected not to cross.

 

ETA: Here are forum rules, for reference:

 

 

 

 

 

[senemgencer]

1 hour ago, WinForPooh said:

 

No, there is nothing wrong with considering Yuzu attractive.

 

However extrapolating how attractive Yuzu is - or rather how attracted you feel to Yuzu - to a generalization about your attraction or lack thereof towards Australian/Japanese men, referencing your own race and citizenship, and then indicating that you might now extend Yuzu and his attractiveness towards other Japanese men because Yuzu is now attractive IS fetishizing, and also possibly crosses a few lines we've always had about how much sexual content is allowed on PH. According to our rules, NO sexual content is allowed. It is not enforced very strictly but it is still a rule and there are lines satellites are expected not to cross.

 

ETA: Here are forum rules, for reference:

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this comment. I am surprised by how harshly people can critise others and accuse them of being racist nowadays. We all have prejudices and it doesn't help to use such hurtful words like "disgusted". You can critise someone of sharing too personal information here and I also agree that here is not the right place. 

But I am NOT ok with acussing people of being this or that so easily. Please stop picking up words and making things into huge issues. I have met enough number of Asians, Americans, Europeans, Arabs and Turks who have their own fair share of prejudices against other races or religions so I want to invite everyone to think twice and chose his/her words calmly before typing. 

[WinForPooh]

3 minutes ago, senemgencer said:

Thank you for this comment. I am surprised by how harshly people can critise others and accuse them of being racist nowadays. We all have prejudices and it doesn't help to use such hurtful words like "disgusted". You can critise someone of sharing too personal information here and I also agree that here is not the right place. 

But I am NOT ok with acussing people of being this or that so easily. Please stop picking up words and making things into huge issues. I have met enough number of Asians, Americans, Europeans, Arabs and Turks who have their own fair share of prejudices against other races or religions so I want to invite everyone to think twice and chose his/her words calmly before typing. 

 

I don't feel comfortable with anybody taking my reply to mean "don't call people racist". Sometimes racism is unintentional. But intent does not decide impact. Fetishizing is a form of racism. Even if that was not the intention, the result was the same.

 

It is important to center the impact and hurt caused to those who were harmed, even unintentionally, and prioritise that over the feelings of the one who caused harm (even if unintentionally). Ideally, the person who caused harm would see that the harsh language comes from a place of hurt that was caused by them, and focus on the content of what is said, and not the harshness of the language in which it is said.

 

Not everything is about intentions. Sometimes it is only about impact, and that is fair.

 

[QuadOllie]

Also...what they said was blatantly racist, lol. Not throwing words around. Racist. I have no time for anyone trying to defend that. 

[QuadOllie]

20 minutes ago, senemgencer said:

Thank you for this comment. I am surprised by how harshly people can critise others and accuse them of being racist nowadays. We all have prejudices and it doesn't help to use such hurtful words like "disgusted". You can critise someone of sharing too personal information here and I also agree that here is not the right place. 

But I am NOT ok with acussing people of being this or that so easily. Please stop picking up words and making things into huge issues. I have met enough number of Asians, Americans, Europeans, Arabs and Turks who have their own fair share of prejudices against other races or religions so I want to invite everyone to think twice and chose his/her words calmly before typing. 

Great. Doesn't change that "disgusted" was the correct word in this case. Would you like me to direct you to the twitter thread of asian people getting actively upset by what was said? Please don't be the "racism doesn't exist" person, its not a good look. 

[yuzuangel]

Hello!! This conversation is now off-topic. If we want to talk about it please take it to PM!! If this is a conversation you want to have, please start a PM thread or at least a thread elsewhere 

 

The reality is that talking about groups of people when it comes to attraction is too common, but still can have racist undertones that are triggering to people who have to live with racism daily. Our rules say we can't allow sexual content. So no more sexual talk about skaters or even non-skaters, please! 

[senemgencer]

4 minutes ago, QuadOllie said:

Great. Doesn't change that "disgusted" was the correct word in this case. Would you like me to direct you to the twitter thread of asian people getting actively upset by what was said? Please don't be the "racism doesn't exist" person, its not a good look. 

There you go QuadOllie calling ME racist this time. 

Honey I am a Muslim Turk, living in Switzerland. Sometimes when I get on the train and start talking Turkish with my daughters, I get the looks that say "Go back to where you came from". I have been told that "I look very intellectual for a Turk" in France. So please don't sing me the "Do you know what racism is?" song. I had my fair share of discrimination everywhere, even in my own country because of where I come from. So please stop this attitude. You sure know a lot of things, but definitely not everything. 

[QuadOllie]

Just now, senemgencer said:

There you go QuadOllie calling ME racist this time. 

Honey I am a Muslim Turk, living in Switzerland. Sometimes when I get on the train and start talking Turkish with my daughters, I get the looks that say "Go back to where you came from". I have been told that "I look very intellectual for a Turk" in France. So please don't sing me the "Do you know what racism is?" song. I had my fair share of discrimination everywhere, even in my own country because of where I come from. So please stop this attitude. You sure know a lot of things, but definitely not everything. 

did...did you really just try to play the "I've been discriminated against, so obviously im incapable of discriminating against other people" card? And with that, I exit this forum for good. My post earlier was right, this isn't an environment that I want to be in. Enjoy your "attitude". 

[yuzuangel]

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