General Yuzuru Chat

[xeyra]

Just now, Xen said:

But Nathan does have balletic roots, even if we disagree about his ability to display it in his programs (his upper body posture btw is still very good for a male skater of his age-his real issue are the ankles and knees).  And his programs this year, are much better than last year's so far- so until they bring in the 7quads to ruin that vision, there's no point in harping about it.

 

Hey I was just posing an option! I have no idea what Sportiva's brand of US propaganda is. But what I've learnt from reading this twitter user is to just ignore everything outside of translations.

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Hey I was just posing an option! I have no idea what Sportiva's brand of US propaganda is. But what I've learnt from reading this twitter user is to just ignore everything outside of translations.

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you. =) I'm just grumbling to myself.  Sorry it came out the wrong way.

[Floria]

hace 5 minutos , Xen said:

But Nathan does have balletic roots, even if we disagree about his ability to display it in his programs (his upper body posture btw is still very good for a male skater of his age-his real issue are the ankles and knees).  And his programs this year, are much better than last year's so far- so until they bring in the 7quads to ruin that vision, there's no point in harping about it.

Yes, it's true, I also heard about his balletic roots. But I guess Sportiva magazine is about figure skating so I guess it's normal to have articles about other skaters. And Nathan is popular in Japan it seems.

[Xen]

Just now, Floria said:

Yes, it's true, I also heard about his balletic roots. But I guess Sportiva magazine is about figure skating so I guess it's normal to have articles about other skaters. And Nathan is popular in Japan it seems.

Are there figure skaters who are not popular in Japan? The fans we ran across at ACI were so supportive of everyone and super polite.

[Floria]

hace 1 minuto , Xen said:

Are there figure skaters who are not popular in Japan? The fans we ran across at ACI were so supportive of everyone and super polite.

Ha ha there are still jokes on Twitter about evil fanyus stealing the best seats and watching 5% of competition.

 

 

[KatjaThera]

I agree that it's a bit annoying to read such cryptic things. If you don't want to say something, then just don't say it at all, instead of hinting at it, but refusing to say more.

 

As for Nathan, it's probably not the right place for it, and it's just my untrained opinion, as someone's who's become a fan only recently, but while I agree Nathan's FS this year is better - for now at least - I don't think it's anywhere near deserving gold yet. I really hope Yuzu is done bombing for the season, because, to me, it'd be a huge let down if a program like that won gold - anywhere - when there are so much better programs (as an overall package I mean). Though actually, that already happened at 4CC with the old one ^_^;. I have nothing against Nathan and it's very brave of him to do all those quads and well done on managing them when he does. It's just not right for me, personally, if he were to win with that and that program, against someone who balances both quads and a proper program. But I know it's an old topic. Back when Yuzu started making a name for himself, he, too, used technical content to beat Patrick who had the upper hand in PCS. But, to me, there's a difference, in that Patrick had the upper hand PCS wise, but didn't exactly blend TES and PCS at the same level Yuzu does now, compared to Nathan. (Especially Nathan, because Shoma and Boyang seems to be trying harder for a balance). Again, just my opinion and somewhat OT, I guess.

 

Actually, I think what bugs me and perhaps others, too, about Nathan and this narrative is that he doesn't really seem to be trying very hard to blend the two aspects and we're supposed to just believe he's artistic because of his balletic roots, even though he doesn't show it much. It sounds like an attempt to fill in the blanks. "Yes he mostly jumps, but you know he's actually done ballet, so he could totally do the rest, too!"

 

But anyway I guess this year will also show whether TES really can beat PCS. So it should be interesting... (I trust Brian and Yuzu to be prepared to react, in case that does happen.)

[Sombreuil]

3 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

Actually, I think what bugs me and perhaps others, too, about Nathan and this narrative is that he doesn't really seem to be trying very hard to blend the two aspects and we're supposed to just believe he's artistic because of his balletic roots, even though he doesn't show it much. It sounds like an attempt to fill in the blanks. "Yes he mostly jumps, but you know he's actually done ballet, so he could totally do the rest, too!"

This is the point that annoys a lot of us I think- that if he has the potential he should be trying to use it rather than being rewarded for potential that he hasn't tapped yet. This seasons programmes may be a start, but who knows what they'll look like if/when he puts in all those quads.  Unless he's managed to cram a couple of years worth of practice and experience into the off season the chances are we'll be back to maximum jumping, minimal transitions.  Or I might be wrong and the softly softly start to the season may mean that despite the impression given last year, particularly by Arutunian,  he is holding back on the jumps and beginning to try and do both, which would be nice.  Time will tell.

[Floria]

hace 9 minutos , Sombreuil said:

This is the point that annoys a lot of us I think- that if he has the potential he should be trying to use it rather than being rewarded for potential that he hasn't tapped yet. This seasons programmes may be a start, but who knows what they'll look like if/when he puts in all those quads.  Unless he's managed to cram a couple of years worth of practice and experience into the off season the chances are we'll be back to maximum jumping, minimal transitions.  Or I might be wrong and the softly softly start to the season may mean that despite the impression given last year, particularly by Arutunian,  he is holding back on the jumps and beginning to try and do both, which would be nice.  Time will tell.

A few days ago I saw on Twitter a fragment of Shoma's recent interview and he said that although the artistic side of skating is important for him  right now jumps are the key to winning. We saw last year how PCS go up simultaneously with number of quads landed. So why take a long and difficult road if you have a shortcut?

ETA probably at Finlandia Trophy judges weren't so much impressed by quads.

[Xen]

1 minute ago, KatjaThera said:

I agree that it's a bit annoying to read such cryptic things. If you don't want to say something, then just don't say it at all, instead of hinting at it, but refusing to say more.

 

As for Nathan, it's probably not the right place for it, and it's just my untrained opinion, as someone's who's become a fan only recently, but while I agree Nathan's FS this year is better - for now at least - I don't think it's anywhere near deserving gold yet. I really hope Yuzu is done bombing for the season, because, to me, it'd be a huge let down if a program like that won gold - anywhere - when there are so much better programs (as an overall package I mean). Though actually, that already happened at 4CC with the old one ^_^;. I have nothing against Nathan and it's very brave of him to do all those quads and well done on managing them when he does. It's just not right for me, personally, if he were to win with that and that program, against someone who balances both quads and a proper program. But I know it's an old topic. Back when Yuzu started making a name for himself, he, too, used technical content to beat Patrick who had the upper hand in PCS. But, to me, there's a difference, in that Patrick had the upper hand PCS wise, but didn't exactly blend TES and PCS at the same level Yuzu does now, compared to Nathan. (Especially Nathan, because Shoma and Boyang seems to be trying harder for a balance). Again, just my opinion and somewhat OT, I guess.

 

Actually, I think what bugs me and perhaps others, too, about Nathan and this narrative is that he doesn't really seem to be trying very hard to blend the two aspects and we're supposed to just believe he's artistic because of his balletic roots, even though he doesn't show it much. It sounds like an attempt to fill in the blanks. "Yes he mostly jumps, but you know he's actually done ballet, so he could totally do the rest, too!"

 

But anyway I guess this year will also show whether TES really can beat PCS. So it should be interesting... (I trust Brian and Yuzu to be prepared to react, in case that does happen.)

Hm, I think the balletic roots is more PR from the USFSA and the media in general. From what I've seen and heard of Nate, he doesn't exactly promote it himself, even saying he liked this year's programs more since he views himself as a contemporary dancer.

 

I think age and maturity is another issue. When you're 17/18 years old, and capable of jumping quads like Nate, the thrill of the jumps just doesn't go away. Jumping is addictive! Skating while a teen, I could do jump practices for hours, less for spins, and far less for footwork/skating skills (much to my coach's frustration back then). Once that thrill is over, the artistry will come, and I think Nate is trying.

[KatjaThera]

2 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

This is the point that annoys a lot of us I think- that if he has the potential he should be trying to use it rather than being rewarded for potential that he hasn't tapped yet. This seasons programmes may be a start, but who knows what they'll look like if/when he puts in all those quads.  Unless he's managed to cram a couple of years worth of practice and experience into the off season the chances are we'll be back to maximum jumping, minimal transitions.  Or I might be wrong and the softly softly start to the season may mean that despite the impression given last year, particularly by Arutunian,  he is holding back on the jumps and beginning to try and do both, which would be nice.  Time will tell.

It would be nice. Maybe his perspective has changed. I think before it was said he was planning to retire after the Olympics, but recently he hasn't said that anymore? And if he plans to have a longer career, he will need to be more careful. Who knows.

 

Personally, I don't think he's being very successful yet. His program seems like "Ok, I'll do some choreography now.... ok, that's enough, now jump. Ok, some more choreography... not too much, ok, that's enough, throw in some more jumps..." and so on. It seems disconnected, like he's just following a check list. Or maybe I'm just not properly attuned to the music, I don't know.

 

Just now, Xen said:

Hm, I think the balletic roots is more PR from the USFSA and the media in general. From what I've seen and heard of Nate, he doesn't exactly promote it himself, even saying he liked this year's programs more since he views himself as a contemporary dancer.

 

I think age and maturity is another issue. When you're 17/18 years old, and capable of jumping quads like Nate, the thrill of the jumps just doesn't go away. Jumping is addictive! Skating while a teen, I could do jump practices for hours, less for spins, and far less for footwork/skating skills (much to my coach's frustration back then). Once that thrill is over, the artistry will come, and I think Nate is trying.

 

Oh I never meant it was him saying it. He strikes me as a guy who doesn't care much about that sort of thing, but I don't actually know anything about him as a person. Maybe if I did, he'd become my new favorite person in the world lol

 

And you're right about age. We remember Yuzu at 17 went to Toronto to learn to jump, but stumbled upon a good and strict coach who made him work on other things, too. So, yes, age has something to do it. But guidance does, too. (I really think Yuzu is so lucky to have found Brian... most of the other top skaters - Javi being the obvious exception - seem to lack such good guidance. Though I can't really say about Boyang, as I'm not very familiar with his circumstances.)

[Floria]

hace 4 minutos , Xen said:

Hm, I think the balletic roots is more PR from the USFSA and the media in general. From what I've seen and heard of Nate, he doesn't exactly promote it himself, even saying he liked this year's programs more since he views himself as a contemporary dancer.

 

I think age and maturity is another issue. When you're 17/18 years old, and capable of jumping quads like Nate, the thrill of the jumps just doesn't go away. Jumping is addictive! Skating while a teen, I could do jump practices for hours, less for spins, and far less for footwork/skating skills (much to my coach's frustration back then). Once that thrill is over, the artistry will come, and I think Nate is trying.

After all Nathan is the only US hope for OGM in figure skating in PC. Actually I think it's the only discipline where they have podium contender.

[Xen]

Just now, Floria said:

After all Nathan is the only US hope for OGM in figure skating in PC. Actually I think it's the only discipline where they have podium contender.

Um, Ice Dance Shibutanis.

[Floria]

hace 2 minutos , Xen said:

Um, Ice Dance Shibutanis.

Ups, I have forgotten them. I was thinking about Chock/Bates, because they are my favourite US dance team. 

ETA Still there are many dance teams who can get bronze. I guess gold and silver in ice dance are already decided .

[Sombreuil]

I think it was around 4CC that N said he wanted to retire and study medicine?  If that is his goal then maximising the jumping is his best chance.  

[CupidsBow]

IA about Nathan. It's no good telling me he deserves the points in PCS because he's balletic if he's not actually delivering whats outlined in the categories. IIRC his ballet past wasn't even long enough to be particularly significant?

 I think his programs this season are better than last season and I think he's well in the race for podium but I'd sooner see Javi, Shoma or Boyang up there next to Yuzu and only really see Javi maybe Shoma as potentially getting gold if by some horrible twist of fate Yuzu bombs (*touches all the wood touch I have complete faith in yuzu*). Shoma has areas of PCS he's good at, and others that still have room to grow but he's trying (even if his tech execution is meh and his fs is a bit of a letdown...) and Boyang has shown he's putting sooo much effort into improving his PCs. Nathan's programs are an improvement but I really anticipate a lot being lost from the fs when he adds his 5-6 quads he's thinking of adding which is understandable but a shame. And compared to Boyang and Shoma he really doesn't seem to care much about improving his artistry which is also understandable considering his PCS shoots up so long as he lands his quads. Same reason Shoma isn't rushing to improve his execution and letting his artistic development sit on the back burner; instead focusing on getting what he can do stable and consistent.

 

tbh tho the only people i super care about making podium are Yuzu and Javi. I'd love for them to 1-2. Third can go to anyone. I love Shoma so kinda root for him but if we're talking who has the better programs as of right now it's more between Boyang and Nathan. I'd kinda love for Boyang to get it just because he gets sort of ignored when it comes to hyping the top men.